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Top 5 Strongest Characters for Every Tier 36

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Thamiel for 1st 7C. He has High 1A resistance to law hax,can travel to higher dimension,can step into a higher dimensional realm like comet king when using power,is a type 1 abstract and has tier 1 immortality
 
Thamiel's a bit of a stone wall. He doesn't have much useful offensive hax, and the limited stuff he does have is 3-D. It's also arguable that his High 1-A immortality isn't combat-applicable, and that anyone who can get around normal 3-D resurrection can leave him incap'd for weeks.

None of Unsong's characters are very great at being smurfs, they're either smurf-stone walls or smurf-glass cannons.
 
Well for one, the resistance would only apply to one character, Uriel, and even then he's not just immune to everything other characters do, he just can't be permanently dealt with, which is interpreted as "Well, this character who can EE probably can't EE him forever".

And while his Applied Kabbalah is cool, it has quite a few limitations in this context:
  • Their effects are possibly 3-D, maybe 5-D at best.
  • While a lot of the abilities from it sound strong (fate manip, death manip, attack reflection, absorption) they usually don't mean much more than "If you don't dodge my next attack, it will kill you" or "I can dodge your next attack".
  • They're based on manipulation of language, meaning that to activate a certain ability, he has to be able to get certain letters from the environment, which is hard to debate in SBA locations like Central Park. And doing such is much slower than thought-based.
He's not fodder, but there's a lot of limitations that make it hard for him to grab top 5 spots.
 
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Agnaa said:
It's also arguable that his High 1-A immortality isn't combat-applicable, and that anyone who can get around normal 3-D resurrection can leave him incap'd for weeks.
Click to expand...

This part is, like you say, very arguable, and as far as I am aware, not exactly something that we've agreed upon as of yet. For one, the term used for Thamiel resurrecting as a result of being a facet of God is the exact same word using for angels reforming their physical forms after death, that being "recoalesce."

For some reason Sohu chose that moment to calm down. As if discussion of the end of the world were more normal, an island of normality she could hold on to. “And why is the world going to end if you kill Thamiel?”

“A LONG TIME AGO THERE WAS A WAR IN HEAVEN. ALL OF THE ARCHANGELS FOUGHT THAMIEL, AND THAMIEL WON. I DID NOT LIKE THIS RESULT, SO I ADDED A NEW STRUCTURE AT THE ONTOLOGICAL BASE OF THE UNIVERSE, A LAYER THAT REINTERPRETS ADAM KADMON. I CONVERTED THE WORLD FROM A SUBSTRATE OF DIVINE LIGHT TO A SUBSTRATE OF MATHEMATICS. THIS PREVENTED ANGELS AND DEMONS FROM EXISTING IN ANY MORE THAN A METAPHORICAL WAY. WHEN THE DIVINE LIGHT ENTERED THE UNIVERSE I CHANNELED IT INTO A RESERVOIR SO THAT IT DID NOT INTERFERE WITH THE CLOCKWORK.”

“And then we crashed Apollo 8 into the edge of the world.”

“YOU WENT BEYOND THE EDGE OF THE WORLD AND RECITED THE BIBLE. YOU INJECTED THE CODE FOR THE ORIGINAL SYSTEM VIA A BUFFER OVERFLOW ATTACK. MY SYSTEM WAS CATASTROPHICALLY DESTABILIZED. EVEN DRAWING ON THE RESERVES OF DIVINE LIGHT I HAD COLLECTED OVER MILLENNIA, I WAS ONLY ABLE TO PARTIALLY STABILIZE IT. SCIENCE AND MATHEMATICS STILL WORK, AND THE SUPERNATURAL IS LIMITED TO A FRACTION OF ITS TRUE POWER. BUT IT REQUIRES A CONSTANT INFUSION OF DIVINE LIGHT TO MAINTAIN EVEN THIS LIMITED FUNCTIONALITY.”

“Can your reservoir of divine light run out?”

“YES. AT THE CURRENT RATE IT WILL RUN OUT IN ABOUT FIFTY YEARS. EACH GREAT MIRACLE I PERFORM BEYOND THE RANGE OF MY ORDINARY POWER DEPLETES IT FURTHER. THAMIEL HOPED I WOULD CALL UPON THE DIVINE LIGHT TO KILL HIM. THEN HE WOULD RECOALESCE A FEW WEEKS OR MONTHS LATER UNHARMED. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO KILL HIM PERMANENTLY. HE IS A FACET OF GOD. AND EVERY TIME I KILL HIM TEMPORARILY, IT REQUIRES SO MUCH DIVINE LIGHT THAT IT TAKES YEARS OFF THE LIFESPAN OF THE UNIVERSE. THIS IS HIS PLAN. TO TAUNT ME AND TRICK ME INTO EXPENDING MY RESOURCES AND HASTEN THE COLLAPSE OF THE CELESTIAL MACHINERY.”
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And,” Gabriel said, “When we ordered some of the lesser angels to study these strategems so we could apply them, the angels would lose their glow and purity. They would no longer be able to sing the songs of praise in the right key. We would have to expel them from Heaven, for their own good.”

“And then,” said Michael, “they would fight on Thamiel’s side.”

“It was very bad,” said Gabriel.

“So,” said Samyazaz, “wait for everyone who died to recoalesce, and don’t be so naive the next time.”

“It is worse than that,” said Michael. “Thamiel wields a two-pointed weapon. Everyone slain by it dies the true death.”

“Like humans?”

“Exactly like humans.”
Click to expand...

He gave a lazy flick of his bident, and the entire structure collapsed in on itself, killing everyone, slaves, porters, supervisors, Ut-Naparash, the entire construction crew, a hundred years of work reduced to smoking rubble in an instant.

It was only a minor death, as deaths went. A purposeless accident of falling rocks and rubbles. Samyazaz recoalesced within a few minutes. Thamiel was gone now. It was just him and the remains of his ziggurat. He wasn’t too proud to cry, just one tear. Then he sighed, brushed himself off, and got up.
Click to expand...

And, for that matter, Thamiel being killed by Michael (A normal Archangel who didn't have access to the Divine Light, unlike Uriel) resulted in him returning to life in moments:

Gabriel had tried to save them. He had been there at Raphael’s side when Thamiel had pierced the archangel with his bident and slain him in battle. He had seen Michael kill Thamiel in single combat, only for the demon to recoalesce and stab the victor in the back. He had fled with the others to Zadkiel’s circumpolar redoubt, which had held on for seven years of constant battle before it was betrayed by a stray sunbeam. Now he was alone. The last of the archangels, he thought to himself.
Click to expand...

So, given all of that, and the fact that Uriel very explicitly has to invoke "miracles" that are far beyond his usual power using Divine Light to actually put Thamiel down for weeks or months, I'd say that this is likely just a feat for the former, and not an anti-feat for the latter.

Agnaa said:
And while his Applied Kabbalah is cool, it has quite a few limitations in this context:
  • Their effects are possibly 3-D, maybe 5-D at best.
Click to expand...
The "possibly 3-D" part is arguable, too, since Applied Kabbalah functions by producing downstream effects on the physical world by manipulating the archetypal objects residing in Yetzirah, which holds its entirety as a metaphor. And while they do indeed only (visibly, at least) affect 3-dimensional space using it, we do know for a fact that Yetzirah's influence encompasses more than that, as Uriel says that time and space are metaphors for archetypal objects residing in it, too:

“YOU ARE AN EMANATION OF DIVINE STRUCTURE, PASSING FROM ATZILUTH TO BRIAH TO YETZIRAH TO THE PHYSICAL WORLD. THE SECRET OF TELEPORTATION IS EMANATING INTO THE PHYSICAL WORLD SOMEWHERE ELSE. SIT DOWN AND CLOSE YOUR EYES.”

Sohu did as directed.

“IN THIS WORLD, YOU ARE A BODY. IN YETZIRAH, THE DREAM WORLD, YOU ARE A COLLECTION OF THOUGHTS AND POSSIBILITIES AND ARCHETYPES. GO TO THAT WORLD.”

“How?”

“YOU DO IT EVERY NIGHT. NOW YOU WILL DO IT WHEN WAKING. STOP THINKING IN TERMS OF THINGS AND THINK OF THE MEANINGS BEHIND THEM.”

“I don’t know the meanings behind things!”

“YES YOU DO. THEY ARE THE CORRESPONDENCES YOU HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH FOR YEARS. SPACE IS A METAPHOR. TIME IS A METAPHOR. ALL THE CLOUDS AROUND US ARE METAPHORS. MY VOICE IS A METAPHOR. TAKE ONE STEP IN THE DIRECTION OF THE THING THAT THEY ARE METAPHORS FOR.”
Click to expand...

“NOW THAT YOU HAVE LEARNED HOW TO ENTER YETZIRAH, YOU MUST CONTINUE TO LEARN HOW TO MASTER IT. BY MANIPULATING YETZIRAH YOU CAN CAUSE POWERFUL DOWNSTREAM EFFECTS IN ASSIAH.”
Click to expand...

Agnaa said:
While a lot of the abilities from it sound strong (fate manip, death manip, attack reflection, absorption) they usually don't mean much more than "If you don't dodge my next attack, it will kill you" or "I can dodge your next attack".
Click to expand...
That's because, to fight using Applied Kabbalah, they have to step into the world of Yetzirah, and since it is not a material world, but a world of dreams, archetypes and concepts, they likewise have to do battle both on a physical and abstract level (Though Uriel and Thamiel in specific have shown the ability to directly step into Yetzirah instead of just astrally projecting into it like others do, so they can just fight on a fully abstract level) by manipulating the ideas contained therein. That's why, for instance, when the Drug Lord forms the word "TOT" (German for "death") to ensure his attack kills Jinxiang, she has to rearrange letters to form the word "CHAI" (Hebrew for "life") and then deflect the attack instead of just dodging or deflecting it normally.

The Drug Lord teetered on the edge of the ball court, but he didn’t yield. Instead, he took the T, O, and T from the front of Teotihuacan to make TOT, the German word for “dead”, tried to strike a mortal blow at Jane. Jane took a C, H, A, and I from the same word to make CHAI, Hebrew for “life”, and deflect the attack. Then she took the remaining letters, NAUE, flipped and twisted the U into an M to get NAME, and spoke the Fulminant Name. A lightning bolt hit the Drug Lord straight in his cactus head. He caught on fire, burnt to ashes within seconds. It didn’t help. A new Drug Lord avatar just appeared on the other side of her, rushed on her with his cane. Jane parried just in time.
Click to expand...

Agnaa said:
They're based on manipulation of language, meaning that to activate a certain ability, he has to be able to get certain letters from the environment, which is hard to debate in SBA locations like Central Park. And doing such is much slower than thought-based.
Click to expand...
I have no big objections regarding this, but I should note that, like I said, in order to fight using Applied Kabbalah, they have to step outside of the physical world and into Yetzirah, and then do battle in the form of abstract versions of themselves residing outside of both time and space, so I am not sure if this argument actually applies when it comes to most fights taking place outside of Unsong proper, where Applied Kabbalah isn't a big deal among the stronger characters because they can also use it and counter enemy attacks that way. For reference to others, here is what I mean:

Uriel was talking to someone. She could barely see him at this distance. Human-sized, she thought. His voice carried, cool and emotionless, solid like ice.

“Would you like to get this over with and kill me now?” he asked. “Or do we have to do it the hard way?”

“THE HARD WAY,” said Uriel.

Then they both took a step skew to any of the dimensions her normal eyes could see. She felt new senses opening up as she tried to follow their path, senses that inferred their presence from the paths of the colored letters that swirled around the storm. The hurricane abstracted, became a series of perturbations in the seed of the world. She traced them back. SA’AR. Then along another set of threads. TEMPESTAS. Still another. HURRICANE.
Click to expand...
 
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Could Ritsuka (learning with manga) can have a place in 2-A now since she can summon every servant and that count Saber shiki and (futur servant with 1-A hax)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ritsuka Fujimaru (Learning with Manga!)

WELL ISN'T IT NICE TO HAVE A 5-STAR!? I WOULD INTRODUCE ONE, IF I HAD ONE, THAT IS!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!Gudako after being asked to introduce a 5-star Servant Ritsuka Fujimaru is the main protagonist of the official Fate/Grand Order parody, "Learning with Manga! Fate/Grand Order". She is the...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
This part is, like you say, very arguable, and as far as I am aware, not exactly something that we've agreed upon as of yet. For one, the term used for Thamiel resurrecting as a result of being a facet of God is the exact same word using for angels reforming their physical forms after death, that being "recoalesce."

I don't know how this argument supports you. "The term used for his resurrection shares the same name as this clearly-not-High 1-A resurrection."

And, for that matter, Thamiel being killed by Michael (A normal Archangel who didn't have access to the Divine Light, unlike Uriel) resulted in him returning to life in moments:

So, given all of that, and the fact that Uriel very explicitly has to invoke "miracles" that are far beyond his usual power using Divine Light to actually put Thamiel down for weeks or months, I'd say that this is likely just a feat for the former, and not an anti-feat for the latter.

Either Thamiel has the normal resurrection other angels have, and has delayed High 1-A resurrection on top of that, and the former is easier to nullify (as is shown by Thamiel being able to permakill angels with his bident), or Uriel has High 1-A immortality nullification, which is far above any other feats he performs, even farther above any other feats done with Divine Light, and makes little sense in many ways (Why can a nerfed level of God's essence overwrite a facet of God? If Uriel can kill on a High 1-A level like this, why can't he completely deal with Thamiel over that period? He himself says that he can't deal with Thamiel's true form this way, and that's only 1-A).

That's because, to fight using Applied Kabbalah, they have to step into the world of Yetzirah, and since it is not a material world, but a world of dreams, archetypes and concepts, they likewise have to do battle both on a physical and abstract level (Though Uriel and Thamiel in specific have shown the ability to directly step into Yetzirah instead of just astrally projecting into it like others do, so they can just fight on a fully abstract level) by manipulating the ideas contained therein. That's why, for instance, when the Drug Lord forms the word "TOT" (German for "death") to ensure his attack kills Jinxiang, she has to rearrange letters to form the word "CHAI" (Hebrew for "life") and then deflect the attack instead of just dodging or deflecting it normally.

I agree, but my point is that when you hear "Low 1-C death manip, fate manip, reality warping, probability manipulation" you think of some sort of uberhax, not some character rearranging some letters then making their next attack a mortal blow.

I'd also hesitate at this implication that the Drug Lord's attack would have been undodgeable and always killed under any situation if the opponent didn't use hax to dodge it. In the fight against Comet King, Caelius briefly thought of speaking, then decided to shield himself using a supercomputer. CK was able to attack through that anyway, but if we have nothing indicating the attacks are undodgeable, only that they would kill, and we have a slight bit of evidence showing a character trying to avoid the attack physically, I don't think we can say hax needs to be used to dodge it.
 
Regidian said:
Could Ritsuka (learning with manga) can have a place in 2-A now since she can summon every servant and that count Saber shiki and (futur servant with 1-A hax)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ritsuka Fujimaru (Learning with Manga!)

WELL ISN'T IT NICE TO HAVE A 5-STAR!? I WOULD INTRODUCE ONE, IF I HAD ONE, THAT IS!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!Gudako after being asked to introduce a 5-star Servant Ritsuka Fujimaru is the main protagonist of the official Fate/Grand Order parody, "Learning with Manga! Fate/Grand Order". She is the...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
Doesn't a bunch of the guys on the top 5 list passively yeet her? Well, besides the number 5 spots.
 
Blackcurrant91 said:
It shouldn't be standard equipment if she has to summon them. Would be a contradiction.
Click to expand...
If someone can teleport some gear in, or retrieve it from a pocket dimension, is it optional equipment? I'd think that it should still be standard equipment, personally, since they always have access to it, even if they need to do something to utilize it.

Being optional also lets them be restricted, and being able to restrict a character's summons sounds real weird.
 
Blackcurrant91 said:
It shouldn't be standard equipment if she has to summon them. Would be a contradiction.
Click to expand...
Have a problem with a profile? only one thing to say!
54fryv.jpg
 
yeah, that is not canon Fujimaru, her effortlessly stomping servants on a regular kind of proves that, though I am certainly not knowledgeable on her
 
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