• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Toneri upgrade?

Status
Not open for further replies.
It was already discussed (well, one of them at least).

Toneri's planet level feat can't be scaled to his AP apparently due to the fact that it's impossible to translate the energy used over such a long period of time to be useful in battle.

We already have a moon slicing calc for Toneri and the kinetic energy formula may exaggerate the results.
 
Personally, I think the small planet level calc is viable because you would need to apply a similar amount of energy to even move the moon.
 
TheMightyRegulator said:
Personally, I think the small planet level calc is viable because you would need to apply a similar amount of energy to even move the moon.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you need to have a good amount of chakra in order to have the Tenseigan, like the Rinnegan, as Obito stated having only a Rinnegan was too much for him. Toneri moved the moon later when he awakened the Tenseigan completely.
 
TMR is correct. We likely cannot reliably translate a long-term feat like this into the enegy expended during quick attacks.
 
Well, but what is the difference between Toneri's first calc and the OBD's calc?

Besides, I don't think Toneri should be much weaker than Rikudou Madara, Indra Sasuke or those characters, and Toneri was going to destroy the planet with his ultimate attack using Naruto's chakra after he lost Tenseigan, moon level isn't much for him, I think moon level is accurate for him IMO.
 
Second calc should be looked over since it's not his moon slice feat but his moving the moon feat throughout the movie which by the calculation using either the RL planet or narutoverse planet comes out at small planet lvl
 
Again. The Moon-moving feat is likely too slow to count, and we already have a calculation for his Moon-slicing feat. In addition, we are busy with the Attack Potency revision project and other problems, and content revision threads are not supposed to be initiated until after we are done.
 
The moving the moon feat has an exact time frame of an hour which is what's used I don't see how the exact period of time given is an issue here at all.As for the attack potency thing we'll had no idea you guys hadn't finished so alright.
 
There are 3600 seconds in an hour. A single attack will probably only take a second at most.
 
No not really many attacks vary in the amount of time given whether it be long or so degrades or upgrades the feats.Pretty sure we had calcs of characters using feats done in minutes.
 
Well, I am uncertain, but we are quite busy with various problems at the moment, so I am going to close this thread until the revision and other matters are over, so we can get more input.
 
Okay. Now that the content revision is over, I have reopened this thread.
 
haven't we already concluded that the original calc done for this is was th best one? i mean it doesn't uses cinematic time (which all of the above do), it fits with the strength toneri is supposed to have, being below madara in terms of power.

the second feat was done over time, which means it can't be used for DC...which we have already discussed on a different topic.
 
Illuminati478 said:
haven't we already concluded that the original calc done for this is was th best one? i mean it doesn't uses cinematic time (which all of the above do), it fits with the strength toneri is supposed to have, being below madara in terms of ...
Click to expand...
Stop. You've said so before and again, no cinematic time is used for the the Moon moving feat.
 
Yes. I think so. I was just somewhat uncertain. Plenty of feats can probably be argued to have been done over time after all.
 
TheMightyRegulator said:
Illuminati478 said:
haven't we already concluded that the original calc done for this is was th best one? i mean it doesn't uses cinematic time (which all of the above do), it fits with the strength toneri is supposed to have, being below madara in terms of ...
Click to expand...
Stop. You've said so before and again, no cinematic time is used for the the Moon moving feat.
Click to expand...

and i will continue to say it as long as it will be necessary, even if it requires sounding like a broken record... and i never said the moon moving feat was cinematic, just that it took too long a time to be considered DC/
 
^ You said all of the above, but perhaps I misunderstood you. If so my apologies and yes the Moon splitting feat does use cinematic timing.
 
The feat that was calculated there only counts for the 60 minutes timeframe.

The moon started moving before and came close to earth.But that was done with Tenseigan and propably some prep over an unknown period of time.Then Naruto and Hinata destroyed the Tenseigan as a result the moon stopped moving (and someone reported to Kakashi that the moon stopped moving and The Timer on Naruto's hand also stopped).

After that Toneri gained the Tenseigan for himself and started moving the moon again.This time probably faster than before(because the moon was breaking apart and meteors were falling).And he moved the moon for about 60 minutes which was calculated in the calculation.

Now if something happens over 60 minutes it does not necessarily mean It would take 60 minutes to output the energy needed to do so.For ex:If you throw a ball it would go high and come back to the ground.Lets say It took the ball 1 minute for the Ball to go up and come back.But that does not mean it took you 1 minute to throw the ball.You had to give the ball kinetic energy required to go up at only the moment you threw it up.After that the ball used the energy for 1 minute.So to move the moon Toneri would have to use the energy only at the moment he started moving it.(I think)
 
"The feat that was calculated there only counts for the 60 minutes timeframe."

nope the feat accounts not only for the time buy for the distance as well.

"The moon started moving before and came close to earth.But that was done with Tenseiga and propablysome prepover an unknown period of time.Then Naruto and Hinata destroyed the Tenseigan as a result the moon stopped moving (and someone reported to Kakashi that the moon stopped moving and The Timer on Naruto's hand also stopped)."

which was exactly my point in saying that this feat is neither calculated properly nore can it be applied to DC.

"Now if something happens over 60 minutes it does not necessarily mean It would take 60 minutes to output the energy needed to do so.For ex:If you throw a ball it would go high and come back to the ground.Lets say It took the ball 1 minute for the Ball to go up and come back.But that does not mean it took you 1 minute to throw the ball.You had to give the ball kinetic energy required to go up at only the moment you threw it up.After that the ball used the energy for 1 minute.So to move the moon Toneri would have to use the energy only at the moment he started moving it.(I think)"

i cannot disprove that theory, however for it to be counted as DC you need to prove that it is the case, unfalsefiablity is not enough, also previous evidence you've given suggests your theory isn't correct...
 
Illuminati makes sense but I find it hard to believe that moving the moon is a multi-Continent feat. This wiki should make its own version of this calc. I have a few ideas but nothing concrete.
 
"""The feat that was calculated there only counts for the 60 minutes timeframe."

nope the feat accounts not only for the time buy for the distance as well. ""

What I said is that the feat that was calculated there is "Toneri moved the moon over around 60 minutes after Toneri gained Tenseigan (after NaruHina destroyed the Tenseigan that was inside the moon))."

The movement of the moon before Toneri gaining the Tenseigan is irrelevant in this calc.It doesn't matter whatever prep or time it took to move the moon the first time (before Toneri had Tenseigan in his own eye).The moon stopped moving after NaruHina destroyed the Tenseigan.At that time the moon was X distance away from earth.Then the Toneri started moving the moon again with his own Tenseigan.And at the time he suffered defeat at Naruto's hand the moon was Y distance away from earth.The calculation is about (X-Y) distance and around 60 minutes.

So I dont understand why unknown period of time or prep is relevant here.It would be relevant if we were talking about the feat that was performed before Toneri awakened Tenseigan in his eye.We have a specific distance and timeframe for the feat after Toneri awakening his own Tenseigan.

The calc still needs fixing.The distance was scaled from Naruto earth's radius.We have accepted a different value for the radius I guess.So I would ask that someone from the calc group just fix and adjust the result with our accepted radius.And if someone has any problem with the timeframe come forward and give us a more acceptable timeframe if you can.
 
How is an hour long feat done overtime?

Since when did feats have timeframe limits?

And how is it that we have feats 10 to 20 minute long ones which aren't regarded as done overtime?

I find that groundless and ridiculous

The fact of the matter is we got indication of when the moon was moving and when it stopped.

So there is no way this is done overtime by definition.

He awakens the tenseigan and starts moving the moon.

That simple
 
"How is an hour long feat done overtime?"

because most fights are over by that amount of time

"Since when did feats have timeframe limits?"

since forever

"And how is it that we have feats 10 to 20 minute long ones which aren't regarded as done overtime?"

we don't, at least not DC ones.

"I find that groundless and ridiculous

The fact of the matter is we got indication of when the moon was moving and when it stopped.

So there is no way this is done overtime by definition.

He awakens the tenseigan and starts moving the moon.

That simple "

tho moon doesn't move from point A to B in a short amount of time, it moves in a full hour, and since the flow of energy seems to be constant, it can't be counted as DC.
 
After Naruto and toneri is over they confirm the moon stopped moving.

Never heard of that and an hour at that you'll need proper reasoning because this seems like balderdash

Buu destroyed a galaxy in years and he's 4-A.... Yhwach was firstly estimated to perform his feat in 20 minutes etc...

Last part was utter nonsense the energy toneri used to move the moon at the speed given was his own and is dependent on his tenseigan which could do so the energy used to do it can be counted as DC since its energy and should only vary in amount
 
4-A is multi solar system level, there are estimated to be tens of billions of solar systems in the milky way, which is a small galaxy compared to others, not to mention that the glaxay is composed of smaller distinguishable celstial objects, the moon isn't. also 4-A is a likely estimation/

Yhwach feat was assumed to have taken 20 minutes because its a stretched out low end, 20 minutes is the largest it could go, and i officialy said that on regular circumstances of meassured time (not assumed) it wouldn't hold water as a feat, right now the time estimation 4 minuetes or so IIRC which is fast enough to be considerd DC.

"Last part was utter nonsense the energy toneri used to move the moon at the speed given was his own and is dependent on his tenseigan which could do so the energy used to do it can be counted as DC since its energy and should only vary in amount"

your comment used here to counter my point is pure gibrish, from what i could understand you don't accept the suggestion that constant long term process' require constant use (or burnout) of energy. Well tough luck, that is physics for ya, this a process that happans as long as certain condition is met (tenseigan), ergo its not like throwing a ball, ergo it needs constant use of energy, ergo long term.
 
1.Billions of galaxies within the Milky Way ? Lol you can't be serious...

Also the Milky Way is like the 3rd largest galaxy in the observable universe iirc.....

2.Point is despite being low end it was 20 minutes and used as DC correct?

3.Suggestion of what? How is him moving the moon in an hour making it different then moving it in 10 minutes for example the only difference would be the time it took to do so.In all seriousness your comments are kinda gibberish themselves.
 
CHILLVIBEZZ said:
1.Billions of galaxies within the Milky Way ? Lol you can't be serious...
Also the Milky Way is like the 3rd largest galaxy in the observable universe iirc.....

2.Point is despite being low end it was 20 minutes and used as DC correct?

3.Suggestion of what? How is him moving the moon in an hour making it different then moving it in 10 minutes for example the only difference would be the time it took to do so.In all seriousness your comments are kinda gibberish themselves.
Click to expand...
1-I think he meant solar systems.

as for the debate going on I agree with Illuminati.
 
Also now looking at the Toneri calc about his moon splitting it's actually more accurate than our current one.

Not only did they remove the mass based off the crater if I'm not mistaken but also got a legit timeframe .Kyuubi and Hamuras statue"s movements during the moon splitting hit the nail on the coffin.There is no cinematic time abuse in there.Furthermore even being moon lvl toneri would still be bellow Madara so that's not an issue although I don't recall any mention of him being weaker or anything involving Madara in the movie besides his doings in the past...
 
"1.Billions of galaxies within the Milky Way ? Lol you can't be serious...

Also the Milky Way is like the 3rd largest galaxy in the observable universe iirc....."

i think latching to mistakes in my writing is beneath you to exploit, i obviously meant solar systems

we were both mistaken about the size of the milky way, where it comes to size, the milky way is an avarage sized Galaxy, as can be seen here

http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/per...ales-of-the-universe/galaxies-and-their-sizes

"2.Point is despite being low end it was 20 minutes and used as DC correct?"

To my voiced unease and discomfort yes. However, an hour (or much more, as it can be legtimatly argued that the moon moving feat started a few days earlier, as was already noted in the comments above) is way too long for it count for DC...Also, i quite resent being critcised for decisions other people made, especially since my original suggestion (before using the 20 minutes timeframe) was to put 5-10 minutes timeframes which are legitimate for DC.

"3.Suggestion of what? How is him moving the moon in an hour making it different then moving it in 10 minutes for example the only difference would be the time it took to do so.In all seriousness your comments are kinda gibberish themselves."

let me put it in simpler terms, long process occur on long timeframes. As such the energy that is used (or exrted) to complete them is more spread out and uneaven, Which means it could not be said that an energy which results from a long process can represent the immidietly available resources of a character.

The fact remains is that we don't (and can't) know if toneri can exert that much energy in a short burst, i cannot prove that he can't, but that is still very unlikely that he can due to the nature of long processe's.
 
"Not only did they remove the mass based off the crater if I'm not mistaken but also got a legit timeframe .Kyuubi and Hamuras statue"s movements during the moon splitting hit the nail on the coffin.There is no cinematic time abuse in there.Furthermore even being moon lvl toneri would still be bellow Madara so that's not an issue although I don't recall any mention of him being weaker or anything involving Madara in the movie besides his doings in the past..."

nope, as far as i can see they are still using cinematic time frame, i cheked it now and they explicitly state they do...
 
1.Meh if you say so

And https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_Way

I was partially wrong there but still my point stands Milky Way has always been amongst the largest galaxies and is exceptional as such


3.Yeah whether or not it was to your unease I could care less the fact of the matter was Twas accepted and used which is frankly all that matters proving my point entirely.

If there are timeframes that should be considered too long for use then it should be added somewhere on the DC page or something.However an hour is something I doubt would ever be considered too long.Its just randomness.
 
4.I already disproved the notion of time being disorted within that scene based off evidence on screen so whether it's cinematic timing or not is no issue at this point.

Calc is valid and takes the moons hollowness into consideration.
 
"3.Yeah whether or not it was to your unease I could care less the fact of the matter was Twas accepted and used which is frankly all that matters proving my point entirely."

except the fact that the only reason it was 20 minutes is because of people who wanted, for some reason or another, make the result as low as they can make it, and made a big uproar about it to boot. Most of those people have later gone to protest for the validity of a vague incoherent and illogical statement in the narutoverse that affected the powerscaling of that particular verse for the worse.

I would say, at the very least, these events sholdn't bare on whether or not you have a point, unless you are willing to concede that all the statements that are more logical then the one i mentioned above (which include statements about certain movie and a certain place) are also perfactly legit...and i don't think you or anyone else would.

"1.Meh if you say so"

low, needless and offensive...

"If there are timeframes that should be considered too long for use then it should be added somewhere on the DC page or something.However an hour is something I doubt would ever be considered too long.Its just randomness."

no its not, its common sense no fight takes that long, let alone an attack.
 
"4.I already disproved the notion of time being disorted within that scene based off evidence on screen so whether it's cinematic timing or not is no issue at this point.

Calc is valid and takes the moons hollowness into consideration."

they literally count the number of frames that have past, you really can't say its not based of cinematic timing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Stryker861
  • Locked
Naruto, Hinata and Toneri upgrades
3 4 5
Replies
187
Views
7K
LephyrTheRevanchist
LephyrTheRevanchist
Nierre
  • Locked
"The Last" Hinata's AP (Downgrade) #3254616
2 3 4
Replies
132
Views
5K
Lonkitt
Lonkitt
WorldMike2B
Ōtsutsuki retcon
Replies
8
Views
3K
The_Alxhemist
The_Alxhemist
DontTalkDT
CRT Foundations for ToAru - Calc Section on the Verse Page and Scaling Chart
Replies
27
Views
4K
XDragnoir
XDragnoir
Arc7Kuroi
  • Locked
Toneri's Moon Split The Last (time I do this)
Replies
21
Views
2K
Arc7Kuroi
Arc7Kuroi
Back
Top