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Toei Tokusatsu Cosmology Upgrade

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Jeodood said:
here something if this means anything

Engine Sentai Go-Onger​

Braneworlds​

"This world is comprised of 11 seperate dimensions, layered upon each other like the layers of a cake. You humans live in this dimension, Human World. And the Engines come from Machine World. There's others, too, like Samurai World and Christmas World."―BOMPER explains the Braneworlds to the Gokaigers
In Engine Sentai Go-Onger, the concept of Braneworlds is used. A total of eleven known Braneworlds exist. Of them, four Braneworlds have been ruined by the Banki Clan Gaiark. badguys that traveled to the human world
powerrangers.fandom.com

Braneworlds

In Engine Sentai Go-Onger, the concept of Braneworlds is used. A total of eleven known Braneworlds exist. Of them, four Braneworlds have been ruined by the Banki Clan Gaiark. Normally known as Earth, Human World is home to the human race, and serves as the primary dimension of the series. It was...
powerrangers.fandom.com powerrangers.fandom.com
bomper is the info dump
gokaigers is like decade
this is before Kikai Sentai Zenkaiger
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, Braneworld's 11 dimensions aren't extra dimensions; they are layered but not in a higher order.
 
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@Jamesthetaker I am back from the hard-stressed weekdays​

Based on my understanding, the scan you provided does not necessarily suggest that the ability is truly 7-dimensional in a mathematical sense from my perspective, as it originates from Yomi no Kuni. Essentially, this means that the ability, referred to as "X," is created in the realm of the dead or the X world.

Regarding the Sentai Side that you mentioned, I do not believe that it possesses any inherent qualitative superiority, as its laws and structure operate differently. It's important to note that simply having distinct laws or principles within a structure does not automatically confer superiority over another structure.

I'm curious, what is the purpose of the video clip or link you shared? I've watched them attentively, but I haven't found any conclusive evidence of qualitative superiority. Additionally, your argument that they appear fictional due to their animated or 2D effects is not a strong enough indicator to support your claim.

It is pertinent to note that the creator of a given series is not necessarily inclined to bestow an infinite level of superiority upon the existence they have created. The very notion of infinite superiority or transcendence above creation is a philosophical and theological concept that is often not within the scope of a creator's intent or capabilities. Therefore, one should exercise caution in assuming that the creator of a given series has endowed their creation with such qualities unless explicitly stated or demonstrated.

To sum up, it is accurate to acknowledge that when a verse introduces a dimensional hierarchy (which I am still figuring out to see any evidence of any of those that you mentioned), it is reasonable to regard it as having higher mathematical dimensions.

However, attempting to compare it to other hierarchies (or to any material source that is not really a hierarchy/structure to begin with) that are unrelated to the topic at hand may not be the best approach, particularly when we are dealing with the concept of seven higher dimensions for which there is no concrete, canonical, or straightforward implication as to how they operate.
 
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@ImmortalDread To reply to your arguments:

Firstly, crossovers are a very common subject in Toei Tokusatsu because that is where the cosmology scaling comes in. When the characters from different series interact, their scaling chains also intersect in one way or another. In this case, Akibaranger is the example. The series introduces the concept of the main heroes and villains seeing the Super Sentai as TV shows just like us. When they refer to the term "Super Sentai," they don't specify any season or character but the whole franchise with 47 seasons. By "extensive," this would include hundreds of thousands of characters, lore, world structure, etc., all of which are condensed inside the Delusion World. As a result, they have total control over said world, which, in turn, is the entire reality of Super Sentai as a whole. Despite this, they are still below Saburo Hatte because it doesn't matter if Akibaranger is viewing the rest of Super Sentai fiction; they are still restricted to the Sentai metanarrative regardless. That is the premise of Akibaranger, a setting in which the protagonists are Super Sentai fans who discover they are characters in a show directed by the same person who produced the series they adored.

There comes Super Hero Senki, which is the biggest crossover ever as it brings both Kamen Rider and Super Sentai into the fray. The movie established Shotaro Ishinomori as the one who created both franchises, and the characters from the story depend on him to exist. This would include every medium from Super Sentai and Kamen Rider, even the Akibaranger, who are usually considered to be "unofficial." Because of this, we know that the hierarchies between two franchises exist simultaneously and thus can scale to each other.

Additionally, we have the main character, Touma, explaining the relationship between a creator and their creation in this clip. He, as a writer, is essentially a god to his own creation; later, he applied this notion to Shotaro. Touma's theory doesn't limit it to any particular individuals, but it is spread out among other hierchies and structures such as Akibaranger, Hatte, Cinema, etc. as they all experience the same R/F superiority.

Secondly, the hierarchy within Toei Tokusatsu, as explained above, is mostly based on R/F superiority. However, the dimension structure does follow a numerical order, and it occurs when a dimension or world views the lower one as fictional. To start with, we have 4-D space from one of the scans I've posted. Ideon is a higher world that transcends the human world, and we would guess that it has a 5-D structure. Next up, Yomi no Kuni is where the souls of the dead reside, including Cinema, who views KR World as a movie. We also have Marushina stating the Delusion World, Akibaranger's World, and Hatte's World, all of which can be considered their own dimensions. The point I'm trying to make here is that all seven dimensions would follow the same R/F sense. Although we haven't seen how each one of them operates, we are aware that Yomi no Kuni transcends KR World and is mentioned as being in the seventh dimension.

To put this simply, crossovers happened in Toei Tokusatsu, which allowed different hierarchies to scale with each other. Akibaranger is a metanarrative about a fictional show that divulges fiction while being a fictional show itself. R/F-dimensional hierachy is spread out across the verse, which means the seventh dimension in question would follow the same principle.
 
Super Hero Senki's saber does not equal TVsaber. Otherwise, there will be conflicts in the TV content
Think about it carefully, most of the 'holster wars' have conflicts, may TV not be as important.
 
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Will respond to James in the weekend, I am extremely sorry for delay.
 
Actually I disagree with all dimensions in KR having a R/F difference.

All dimensions within the Delusion World would be mathematical dimensions given Saver and Ideon's depictions of them.

However, equating Badan to the Cinema is actually valid in proving that Badan would be higher dimensional, considering the fact that regardless of R/F or not the Cinema is qualitatively superior to the Kamen Rider multiverse.
 
I gotta ask, how long will James and Dread will have to debate until this thread goes through or not? Is Dread on like, a time limit or will one side have to concede?
 
8jo9ug216a401.gif

(when @Sir_Ovens wake me up early on a Saturday)
​
I comprehend the concept of crossovers, but it's important to take into account the context and limitations associated with them. However, you seem to be missing the main point I'm trying to make. While Akibaranger possesses control over its own "Delusion World," this doesn't grant them control over the entire Super Sentai franchise or its extensive lore and characters.

Shifting the focus to Super Hero Senki, it's worth mentioning that the portrayal of Shotaro Ishinomori as the creator of both Kamen Rider and Super Sentai in the movie doesn't automatically establish a simultaneous hierarchy or scaling between the two franchises. Although the movie may show the characters depending on Ishinomori's existence, it doesn't necessarily imply that all the hierarchies within each franchise scale equally or interchangeably. Each series has its own established lore, power dynamics, and narrative structure that should be considered individually rather than assuming a direct scaling relationship.

Moreover, the concept of a creator and their creation, as explained by Touma in Super Hero Senki, offers an intriguing philosophical perspective. However, it shouldn't be taken as a definitive rule for determining power hierarchies. While a creator may have control over their creation within their own fictional universe, it doesn't necessarily mean that their influence extends beyond that specific context. Each fictional world operates within its own rules and hierarchies, and it's crucial to respect the internal consistency and narrative boundaries of each series.

The discussion of dimensional structures and numerical orders within Toei Tokusatsu is interesting. Nonetheless, it's essential to note that the existence of different dimensions or worlds within the franchise doesn't automatically imply a universal scaling hierarchy.

To summarize, it appears that you are introducing a 7D plane without any basis, as the series itself doesn't suggest it. None of the canon material supports this idea, and the implications seem to rely on a naming fallacy. The descriptions of the ability have no connection to mathematical dimensions in a cosmological context, and there is no mention or suggestion of this concept in any of the franchises, canon works, or crossovers. It's important to note that when I say it was never mentioned, I specifically refer to the mathematical plane itself, as briefly mentioning the ability does not refute my main points.
 
So, to start it off: The 7-dimensional statement is excessively vague. We are not even told about what the "7th dimensional power" in question is, and from what I see neither is there any information on the higher-dimensional spaces that in theory it would have to involve. Doesn't meet any of our criteria for higher dimensions at all.

The "Higher-dimensional world of which lower planes are just the shadows" is pretty promising, overall. Would probably indeed be a level of Tier 1 above whatever setting is the "shadow" in question. Problem is, though:

Behind the world we see is the real world──
Last week I wrote that the Don Brothers tried to do some serious Avataro stuff, but were put off.

That's the world view we've introduced instead.

Even without going to another world, this world itself is actually a different world. Only those who wear sunglasses can see the real world.

Momotaro is the story of the hero who is born from a peach that flows down the Domburanko and goes to the other world called Onigashima.

What is upstream of the river?

Since a peach with a baby inside is produced, it must be another world.

There are many stories from the past about heroes who come from the other world and bring good fortune to this world ....... From the descent of the sun and Ebisu-sama to Sue-Man and Ullaman. There are countless stories from all over the world. That is how long humans have longed for the "other world" in their lives.

On the other hand

This world is really another world.

We must wake up to the truth of it.

This is not the same as the idea that "this world is really the other world" or "we should wake up to the truth of the other world.

I feel that this is a uniquely Western way of thinking.

In movies such as "Men in Black" (1997) and "Matrix" (1999), people wear sunglasses. And for some reason, everyone wears sunglasses. In Japan, too, there are sunglasses heroes from "Gekko Kakou" to "Abui Keisatsu," but wearing sunglasses does not mean that they are awakening to the world of truth.

This feeling may date back to the ancient Greeks.

The philosopher Plato had a theory called "The Idea Theory.

The world in which we live is not really real. What is real is the perfect world of ideas. Our world is but an imperfect shadow of it. Idea, in English, is an idea. It is a world of concepts that cannot be seen or touched and can only be dreamed of. The concepts we think of as virtual are real, and the world we think of as real is virtual. This sense of reality may be the reason why the two seemingly contradictory ideas of heaven (salvation in the next life) and the second coming (salvation in this life) can coexist in today's Christianity.

The virtual and the real. The idea (concept) and the id (ego). Perfect reason (the brain) and imperfect desire (the beast).

When you mess around with these things, you end up with the Don Brothers.
Click to expand...

I don't see how this is talking about Ideon at all? It does seem to suggest it ties into the stuff from the series proper, since it states that what is being described is the worldview introduced by it, but it's not really obvious how that's meant to be related to the brain layer described in the blog at all. I'm going to make a guess and assume it has to do with how Ideon is described as "behind the world"? Since that'd tie it into how the above text starts off with "Behind the world we see is the real world."

As for the "real world" stuff: It sounds alright on paper, but one thing I'm confused on is whether the Delusion World is actually being transcended by the Akibaranger's world. In here, for instance, they seem to be depicted as two realities existing side-by-side, while only Saburo Hatte's world is drawn as being a larger circle encompassing them both. Same would apply to Shotaro's world.

That said, the blog mentions that people from the latter two are seen as deities from the perspective of the fictional realities, so, given that and how Hatte's world is portrayed in the drawing board diagram, I'd be fine with them being treated as transcendent realms.
 
(I assume a green user have more power to say, even tho our arguments are alike)
 
Hmm.

I think it's best I close the thread and rework the blog to remove the 7D rating.
 
Alright! Aye, need to give the feedback to the community of the verse:
Y'all are the nicest people ever I had, no insulting, no derailing, kept relevant, understandable perspectives, good points, respectful, the thread is clean, well-moderated, civil

@Jamesthetaker I had an amazing time with you! Wish everyone is consistent like you
 
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