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Toaru Majutsu no Index Discussion Thread 7

It does but it might not work on humans. Has Kimi used it against a human and turned them into salt?

Angel dragon can deflect a railgun, a high calibar one at that.
 
not for now, but it can be dodged as it needs to hit with the Cross of light but she got pretty oofed in the last page
 
Has someone counted how many times "you are downplaying Accel" was said in this year?

Anyway, about Kakine's sand feat, it is transmutation or matter manipulation? Or can it be both?
 
Think its both honestly. He said he can create phenomenon by inputting dark matter into the world, so the phenomenon he created was transforming human cells into sand.
 
Xdragnoir

Are you really trying to start an argument? It's over there was no need to bring it back up but yet you decided to do just that.
 
TSFCell

Yes, it's probably both or better yet, Matter Transmutation. With matter transmutation you can pretty much transform anything, as long as it's tied down to physics, into anything,
 
TFSCell said:
Think its both honestly. He said he can create phenomenon by inputting dark matter into the world, so the phenomenon he created was transforming human cells into sand.
Click to expand...
Yeah, something like that sounds good.

@Scrlk

LMAO, i just noted that "downplaying Accel" is something people say a lot, calm down, man.
 
Kakine has control over matter, a matter that doesn't exist in the world, but it's still matter nonetheless. So everything he does is pretty much matter manipulation or some form of it.

Btw why did we put limited matter manipulation on his profile?
 
Ah, thanks. Well I think the limited should be taken off since I think him doing what he did pretty much proves he has full control over matter. Dura negation should be added on in his first key.

I'll make a CRT later when the chapter is fully translated in manga form. What things should I add?

Matter Manipulation and/or Transmutation (I'll put both and see what others say about whether we should add both or one.)

Freezing

Burning

I don't think there is anything to add where general feats are concerned like AP, DURA etc. though.
 
I don't know. It might be the same as her large calibar railgun but someone with more knowledge would know more.

You know I figured out why Kakine frustates me so much. He has this really cool power that he could do a lot with but yet he hardly does anything with it. Imo where story writing goes Kakine's power would make for a more interesting power for a protagonist. It's not too overpowered like vector manipulation which pretty much offers you an instant win in 99% of cases now, and it's more versatile than IB which allows for many different applications; instead of simply negating powers.

It's an extremely cool power wasted, imo.
 
Yeah, Kakine is extremely frustrating to me too at times. After he revives, his powers are now MASSIVELY amped and he's out to get Accelerator again. I'm expecting him to pull off some crazy shit. Maybe he was going to turn the air into ozone, or fill it with sulfur.

But no, he just sits back and throws clones at him while bragging about how strong he's got. It's disappointing.
 
Kamachi clearly doesn't like Kakine, he made Kakine a "rival" to Accel just to show how strong Accel is, if Kakine objective was anything else he would be much more important. If Kakine had connections to the magic side (something like wanting to combine magic with DM), or any other random thing instead of a rivalry with Accel he would have much more time screen.
 
The fight DID show that Accelerator could adapt to strange laws which is pretty cool. I like Kakine alot. He has the third best look for the level fives (Gunha will always be number 1) and his power is cool. I REALLY want to see him make a return in GT.
 
I'm pretty sure the Level 5s relate to Aleisters plan in how important their interaction with Touma is. Remember that the entirety of Academy City, including the Dark Side, is built around Touma and his development. That's the reason Academy City is allowed to have dangerous elements, so Touma can encounter them and grow. Aleister could have easily eliminated the Dark Side, but it was actually custom built around Touma. On the topic of GT2, I believe that Anna kissing Touma with something in her mouth is her feeding him the Saint Germain mind control pill. Remember that she had these pills in NTR and was swallowing them and joking about it with Aiwass.
 
TFSCell said:
The fight DID show that Accelerator could adapt to strange laws which is pretty cool. I like Kakine alot. He has the third best look for the level fives (Gunha will always be number 1) and his power is cool. I REALLY want to see him make a return in GT.
Click to expand...
What are you talking about? Aihana has the best look with his Aogami and Pierces.
 
NoukanGoodestBoy said:
I'm pretty sure the Level 5s relate to Aleisters plan in how important their interaction with Touma is. Remember that the entirety of Academy City, including the Dark Side, is built around Touma and his development. That's the reason Academy City is allowed to have dangerous elements, so Touma can encounter them and grow. Aleister could have easily eliminated the Dark Side, but it was actually custom built around Touma.
On the topic of GT2, I believe that Anna kissing Touma with something in her mouth is her feeding him the Saint Germain mind control pill. Remember that she had these pills in NTR and was swallowing them and joking about it with Aiwass.
Click to expand...
it's been explained in nt 19 that accel and touma are the only key, they are needed to access and understand aiwass core

the other tiering are for back ups apart for gunha : kekine is second cause he is the back up for accel, mikoto is third as the sister are important for the AIM field, mugino is 4th cause she is the back up of mikoto with electricity based power, misaki we don't know but probably to access touma mind and 6th should be her back up with mind related powers, gunha was given 7th cause he is too much powerful of a gemstone and they don't know exactly where to rank him cause they can't measure him
 
Kakine could be 2nd because he could be used to produce DM sisters if Mikoto failed, not saying this is the only reason, but it is one of them.
 
I know that Kakine is the back up for Accel, but if Mikoto's only reason to be the #3 are the clones, i see no reason to Kakine not being the #2 BOTH because he has the closest calc speed to Accel's and a power that can do everything the Misaka Network does, but better.
 
Kakine clones couldn't have done what Mikoto's clones could. It's not just about the clones, it's about what the clones can do. That is also false about him being able to do everything that the Misaka Network does but better.
 
Wasn't the main objective Aleister had to the sisters spreading AIM across the world and also being used to summon Aiwass? DM Network could be used for both, and unlike the sisters, DM has no end, and all of them are level 5 espers.
 
Kakine is the number two because Dark Matter is absolutely insane power to the point that he could serve as a back up for Accelerator, it's as simple as that

also yeah DM Network would prob do the trick just as well as the Mikoto Clones
 
Again, no it can't which was pretty much hinted at in OT13. Also spreading AIM was only one of Aleister's objectives with the clones. The DM couldn't be used for both, if it could have been it would have been the go to over Mikoto. Kakine had his purpose but it was never to be a back up to Mikoto. In fact that was what Mugino was for.
 
What, are you downplaying Kakine? Are you saying an army of level 2-3s is better than an army of level 5 that can't be killed? Not even saying he is a backup for Mikoto now (i wasn't even saying that at the start) but the DM Network can do everything the Misaka Network can.
 
I'm not downplaying and you basically just pointed out yourself why Kakine couldn't replicate what Mikoto was used for using dark matter. He can't be killed. His clones can't be killed, not truly anyway and that is where the problem lies.

While Kakine might have been able to create clones, they wouldn't have been human, no matter what and they wouldn't have been able to truly die.

The Will of the Misaka network is an enity that is both dead and alive as she is made up of 10031 dead sisters and 9969 alive sisters, plus Last Order. She has experienced dying over 10,000 times.

Kakine wouldn't have been able to replicate this even if he made 1,000,000 clones and had they had been destroyed 100,000 times. Because as I said above they wouldn't have ever been human, they wouldn't feel any pain and more than that they wouldn't techically stay dead or be dead.
 
Yeah, you are probably right. I should have started with that 3 posts ago. It would have been a lot better.

Actually and this is just my view on things but I don't think Kakine was a back up at all. I think he was part of Aleister's main plans whatever they were. I have always found it strange that Aleister never went to his "back up" plan when there was ample of oppurtunities for him to do so. Like after Accelerator was shot in the head or when Accelerator began to rebel. You also have in NT18 where Aleister said that only Touma and Accelerator was able to reach Aiwass' core. There's also OT19 where Aiwass kind of hinted that Kakine had a role to play in the plans and didn't seem that he was a back up to them.

That's just my view though and after reading DM the whole being a back up thing seems to be more about what the Kihara's were building towards. Like I said that is just my view.
 
Actually, isn't Kakine the only one who said he is the back up? He never being one would make more sense, and adding to what Aiwass said, Gremlin wanted Kakine for a reason, and he is "the one who touched God's territory", everything points to him being a second plan, and not a substitute to Accel, which... is probably what he meant with "backup plan".
 
well he could in theory create accelerator with DM right now that's why i said a back up , i assume aleister would have used him for that
 
Kamachi could make Kakine the strongest being in the series if he wanted, is there anything he can't do? With the right teacher (Aleister would be the best option, i think), i think Kakine could become a MG, since the esper-magic problem would destroy a single body at most, and he can have every esper power.
 
That's why i call DM bullshit and a bit of plot convince: can interact with magic with no draw backs, has multiple type of energy, it's an elementary particle, can break down and absorb other matter, can read the past,can be used by others, is self sustaining and can create esper even holistic ones (tho may result in failure)
 
He can't warp reality. There's quite a bit Kakine can't do really and Kamachi has always pointed out that Kakine would always be inferior to Accelerator's power. So no, Kamachi couldn't have made Kakine the strongest being in the series if he had wanted because he had always set up Kakine as not being that.
 
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