Toaru Majutsu no Index Discussion Thread 7

[Malox1696]

??? in what way ? i just called it bullshit, it does not follow the standard esper rule set like gunha not as bullshit but still pretty bullshit


what u thought i was making it be ?

 

[Scrlk666777]

No you said it was borderline magic, which it's not. You're making out that Kakine can do magic, which is untrue, at least for now. Who knows in the future.

If you said it was matter transmutation, I would have agreed.

 

[Malox1696]

non maybe u misunderstand i know kekine is not magic but i called it similar to magic cause generally esper are pretty restricted by their power while kekine power follow alternate rule as they are new energy, that's what i mean similar to magic not that it is magic, we know he has AIM after all and still does it by calculation, just the freedom of his power is more akin to magic than espers

 

[Scrlk666777]

That makes more sense although Kakine does have limits.

 

[Malox1696]

oh yes but still very bullshit by esper standards, as they are stuck with 1 ability that is generally specific while kekine seems to create : fire, ice, pressure, energy, laser, etc when he wants by DM applications

and obvs he is hard capped by what he can calculate

 

[XDragnoir]

Can't it be his DM attacking at the sub-atomic level? We know he can do it, not as freely as Post Revival, but the power being used is the same.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Its most likely transmutation at the subatomic level, induced by DM

If it was a "normal" subatomic attack, he wouldnt have turned into sand or dust

 

[XDragnoir]

Yeah, now i think we will be able to add dura negation to his 1st key back.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Its most likely transmutation at the subatomic level, induced by DM
If it was a "normal" subatomic attack, he wouldnt have turned into sand or dust

He most likely turned to ash not sand or dust. We will have to wait for the translations and manipulating matter on a subatomic level can make a person look like sand or dust when turned to ash, if the image is black and white which manga is.

Isn't dura negation already on there?

 

[Scrlk666777]

@Malox

Fire? Ice? Laser?

Things that he has never been shown to do.

 

[XDragnoir]

Dura negation was removed from the 1st key because he had no feat of using it before the revival.

 

[Scrlk666777]

While I'm not against adding it back on. I'm not sure what he did to the Kihara counts as bypassing someone's durability since he's human. He only has normal human durability.

 

[XDragnoir]

@Malox

Fire? Ice? Laser?

Things that he has never been shown to do.

Didn't the bettles have a laser? The other 2 i have no idei though.

Btw, is there any info abou the Kihara Family size?

 

[Scrlk666777]

He never used lasers, that was Mugino and Accelerator. I can't remember any other time lasers were involved in a fight with Kakine.

The Kihara's are a pretty large family and we've probably not even seen them all yet. Also speaking of the Kihara's, Amata seemed to care very little about his son's death, going by the fact that he didn't seem to even care about going after Kakine.

 

[Malox1696]

he used laser vs acceletor, member the sunlight rays ?

fire and ICE come from his manga from the same volume as the raw i posted

 

[Malox1696]

Dura negation was removed from the 1st key because he had no feat of using it before the revival.

it was already added back tho ?

i mean look at the feat page:

. His wings can also use Dark Matter to damage the enemy using odd properties. For example, Kakine was capable of vaporizing and apparently corroding/dissolving the arms of the user of an anti-esper powered suit designed to weaken and negate the energy of any kind of attack that earlier tanked a regular attack from his wings.

 

[XDragnoir]

He never used lasers, that was Mugino and Accelerator. I can't remember any other time lasers were involved in a fight with Kakine.

The Kihara's are a pretty large family and we've probably not even seen them all yet. Also speaking of the Kihara's, Amata seemed to care very little about his son's death, going by the fact that he didn't seem to even care about going after Kakine.

The wiki says 5000+ Kiharas, so yeah, we know less than 1% of them. Amata wasn't affected by Divine Punishment, you thought he would care to someone? He is the cold villain of the franchise, nothing new to him.

 

[Scrlk666777]

he used laser vs acceletor, member the sunlight rays ?
fire and ICE come from his manga from the same volume as the raw i posted

That's not a laser. What are you talking about he never used ice or fire in the DM manga.

 

[XDragnoir]

it was already added back tho ?

i mean look at the feat page:

. His wings can also use Dark Matter to damage the enemy using odd properties. For example, Kakine was capable of vaporizing and apparently corroding/dissolving the arms of the user of an anti-esper powered suit designed to weaken and negate the energy of any kind of attack that earlier tanked a regular attack from his wings.

His P&A section and his AP section doesn't has it, what means that he couldn't use it if a Vs. Thread was done with his 1st key right now.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Translations on pastebin are out and it looks out it is sand that the kihara turned into it. Apparently Kakine turned the cells themself into sand.

Also on Ringo it looks like she a subistitue for Accelerator and could briefly fight evenly with Kakine, according to him.

 

[Scrlk666777]

She's the closest one that has replicated Accelerator's powers but the downside is that it had bad consequences of damaging her body.

Sorry I think I got mixed up, it's Kakine I think who is Accelerator's substitute. But it seems that this wasn't referring to Aleister's plans but the plans of the scientists instead. Kakine was the spare plan to the Kiharas.

Powers Ringo has shown.

Deflection

Super Speed-Damages her body.

Super Strength.

Air Manipulation-She can change the vibrations in the air but only the direction so it's not quite vector control.

 

[Malox1696]

he used laser vs acceletor, member the sunlight rays ?
fire and ICE come from his manga from the same volume as the raw i posted

That's not a laser. What are you talking about he never used ice or fire in the DM manga.

Well yes it's a laser tho he uses DM instead of radiation to amplify light so it it would be more a LASCD (light amplification stimulated by contact with Darkmatter), and yes he uses ice and fire same chapter that I posted the RAWS from , why u gotta think everyone is lying to u ?

 

[Scrlk666777]

I didn't say you were lying. I just read the chapter myself and there was no sign of Kakine using fire or ice. In fact I read it about three times or rather looked at the pictures three times. The translations are done through pastebin but has yet to be added to the manga panels themselves,

The only thing that could resemble him creating ice is those ground spikes that he produce while "fighting" that woman but they just seem like earth spikes to me not ice. It's hard to tell just by going by the images, but I guess it could be ice.

I don't know where the fire thing comes from though.

 

[Malox1696]

From the the paste bin of charther 4 Kakine: But if I add in the new form of matter called Dark Matter...

SFX: Distort

SFX: Flash flash SFX: Burn

Souji: If he adds in the new form of matter called Dark Matter...

Souji: each and every phenomenon will result in something entirely different from normal. SFX: Freeze freeze

In the same page as this there is fire and ice , considering the SFX says burn and freeze I'm quite sure it's ice and fire , but if u dont believe me u can wait for the editors to finish

 

[Scrlk666777]

Would you stop that. I never said I didn't believe you but you do have a habit of trying to hype Kakine up. First you try and make out that Kakine can use magic or that his powers are borderline magic, which they are not. Then you go on about him being able to create fire and ice. Actually it makes sense that Kakine can create fire and ice, it's not all that impressive though.

Imo while Kakine might be a little bit BS, Accelerator and Gunha are even more so.

 

[Malox1696]

Accel is not bullshit, by bullshit I mean it does not make sense not that it's strong, Accel power make sense he always uses vectors, vunha and kekine don't make sense, kakine with DM is basically multiskill and gunha is very similar to ars magna (complete with if he doesn't expect it , it does work against him)

I don't hype kekine I know very well he is a jobber , but we gotta give credit on what he (or better, DM) can do even if he is a volley ball in the depth of the ocean

 

[Scrlk666777]

So now you are trying to downplay Accelerator's ability. They are BS. I don't think you quite understand what vector control can do. There's a reason Kakine is the #2 and the spare plan.

He's not a jobber, he loses to those he should lose to and wins against those he should win against.

 

[TFSCell]

When Malox said Kakines powers were magic, I feel like he was just saying that Kakines abilities didn't make sense or were absurd.

 

[Malox1696]

So now you are trying to downplay Accelerator's ability. They are BS. I don't think you quite understand what vector control can do. There's a reason Kakine is the #2 and the spare plan.
He's not a jobber, he loses to those he should lose to and wins against those he should win against.

Ok I think u don't understand what I mean by bull shit: bullshit =/= strong , it's bullshit cause it makes no sense, it does not follow the set rules, accel unlike sogita or kekine make sense I never saw accel create a doll from nothing with vector control or break his own power rules, sogita and kekine instead make no sense , they are not more powerful just more let's say "author plot convenience" ability if that make sense to u


in no way im down playing accel, if u misunderstood that's on u

 

[Scrlk666777]

Are you forgetting about Accelerator's wings? You are only merely thinking about his base power and Accelerator has done BS things even in his base power or have you forgotten the fact that he can manipulate metaphysical and conceptual energies? The fact that he can manipulate Kakine's dark matter? The fact that he can manipulate magic?

Also Accelerator's wings and the things he can do has been hinted to be even more BS than even that of Kakine.

 

[Malox1696]

obvs with wings that's another story , but those are not only vector control as u know (revealed in railgun SS3 wings are related to magic side)


and again it's not bullshit, vector control is just that versatile, DM instead is more similar to plot convenience


to be more clear im saying accel power make sense, kekine and gunha don't that's why i call them similar to magic and bullshit , not that they are more powerful let's make this clear

 

[Scrlk666777]

We don't know if that girl has the same wings as Accelerator. So it's a poor example. We still have no idea what Accelerator's wings are or what they are connected to. They seem more connected to his true will than anything else.

When has Kakine had any plot convience? Please, he hasn't even done half the stuff Accelerator has done, which has more plot convenience.

I will admit that Kakine's power itself is BS, just that Kakine isn't. He's actually extremely unimpressive with the power he's got; that anyone else can use it better than him. Accelerator's power is pretty BS too though, something making sense of not doesn't mean it isn't BS. The word you are looking for is incomprehensible. Dark Matter, Gunha's powers and Accelerator's wings are all incomprehensible.

BS however can take form in many different ways. For example Accelerator's powers are BS since they simply work on the base of what he understands. That is pretty BS since it means his powers has almost limitless potential on what it can manipulate.

 

[Scrlk666777]

It looks like the fight between Kimi and Misaka has turned into Misaka vs. Angel dragon.

 

[Malox1696]

it's a preview let's wait

 

[TFSCell]

I kinda agree with the assertion that Kakine himself isn't BS. Sure he's laughably stronger than the other level fives, but the way he uses his power is plain as hell. The transmutation thing is actually pretty cool though.

Oh, who's winning that fight?

 

[Scrlk666777]

@TFSCell

If by level 5's you mean anyone not named Accelerator, then he already is. Accelerator is the strongest of the level 5's and out ranks Kakine by miles. But you have to remember though that Kakine's ability has nothing to do with power but creation.

Angel Dragon vs. Misaka? No one it's just started. Most of the chapter was Kimi vs. Misaka. Or rather Misaka throwing stuff at Kimi and Kimi just blocking it.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Oooh Gunha's back! The level 5's really do like entering through breaking walls.

 

[Malox1696]

BS however can take form in many different ways. For example Accelerator's powers are BS since they simply work on the base of what he understands. That is pretty BS since it means his powers has almost limitless potential on what it can manipulate.

thta's why is precised by bull shit i mean't it make no sense, and accel is not plot convenience, he still follow the rules of his power, for example he can't just create missing organ etc, kakine pretty much (or more specifically DM) used to do a lot of things, member the elements ? dark matter magic hybrid creature ? the kiharas controlling DM, that's what i mean by plot convenience


btw next month chapter seem pretty hype angel dragon vs misaka , gunha vs AIM powered man, accel mango too , maybe this time we get some more info on how gunha power works ?

 

[Scrlk666777]

Accelerator's powers aren't based on creation, they are based on manipulation. It's the power to basically manipulate anything he can understand. For example Kakine can create things that exist by using matter that doesn't exist but Accelerator could theoretically manipulate something that even Kakine couldn't create, as long as Accelerator grows to understand it.

Anyway let's drop his subject.

Yeah, things are beginning to go down. It's more likely we will learn more applications than what his power. I think if we are to learn about Gunha's power it will be through the main novels rather than the spin off. That's just my guess though.

But yeah we have three level 5 fights happening in the next chapters of their respective manga. I expect Accelerator to easily win. Mikoto I expect her to lose and Gunha could go either way but I'm leaning more towards a win.

 

[TFSCell]

Doesn't Angel Dragon turn things into salt? I think Mikoto might get stomped in a straight up fight.