Toaru Discussion thread New Fourms #1

[Felience1]

I am only talking in general here.

I see, the accurate part i was talking about me so I was a bit confused. Anyways, I of course think you are right.

 

[Felience1]

I realized a bit ago that Kazakiri only has limited law manipulation via esper power. Shouldn't she have full Law Manip since there are quotes about her warping laws?
her presence alone warps the laws of the world, weakening magic and hurting magic users

 

[Churronzon]

I don’t agree with her having an Esper power to begin with. Being formed by AIM doesn’t grant her a personal reality.
Removing limited from law manip would be good though.
There’s also her NPI, electricity manip, type 8 immortality, danmaku, and semi-omnipresence

 

[Felience1]

I will bring back my good old list. Tell me what has been done and what is pending or any kind of feedback.

Old threads:

Random Toaru ability (Aureolus aditions)
Crowley's Nondualism.
[Toaru] Othinus tiering revisions
[Toaru] On Alice surviving Gungnir's destruction
Alice Anotherbible (Toaru) Revision (Resistance to Phase Manipulation)
[Toaru character addition to a profile] Adding the Will to the Sisters page
[Toaru] Additions for Mina Mathers
Gabriel Acausality (Toaru)
[ Toaru ] Gabriel MFTL or MFTL+ attack speed with God's Purge/Sweep
[Toaru] Additions surrounding Information Analysis and Resistance to it
[Toaru] Morality Manipulation for Othinus
Toaru Aleister CRT (Done, just 2 small changes left, AP and LS without magic)

New threads:

Kazakiri abilities adition and removal of esper power
Kanzaki supernatural luck.
Kiharas intelligence.
Kakine hive mind, maybe already aproved?
Aureolus should have Explosion Manipulation.

I think MGs should have dimensional manipulation and Causality manipulation (Causality is already there but not in abilities for some reason).

 

[Churronzon]

Idk I'm not focusing on any of the old threads

[Toaru] Archetype Manipulation for Coronzon

Coronzon having Archetype Controller got accepted in my omnibus crt with a possibly conditional, but I forgot that Aleister's CM didn't have a type attached to it, (assuming it even still qualifies as CM) so I couldn't add it to Coronzon's profile and had just put it in her techniques section instead.

 

[XDragnoir]

Idk I'm not focusing on any of the old threads

Coronzon having Archetype Controller got accepted in my omnibus crt with a possibly conditional, but I forgot that Aleister's CM didn't have a type attached to it, (assuming it even still qualifies as CM) so I couldn't add it to Coronzon's profile and had just put it in her techniques section instead.

It's type 3

 

[Felience1]

Removed that one. Btw the last one looks ok to you guys? I added that one yesterday.

 

[Felience1]

my omnibus crt

There are tons of changes that weren't applied right? Were they all rejected or should we bring them up again?

 

[Churronzon]

They're rejected.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

FantaRin The First/Sandbox Dot Two

vsbattles.fandom.com

Current things in sandbox

• Mikoto
  • Her AP justifications in her Level Six Shift Experiment Key is shorten and streamlined as Mountain level with Level 6 Shift Phase 1, higher with Level 6 Shift Phase 2, far higher with Level 6 Shift Phase 3 and even higher with Black Sphere
  • Post-Daihaseisai has RD since she only learned it from Junko after Daihaseisai, which applies to her AP, SS, and DURA
  • Making Mikoto's Railgun upscale her lightning by virtue of her numerous statements saying her Railgun is a "cruel attack produced unequaled destruction" and explicitly stating her Railgun is supposed to be her trump card.
  • Her Anti-Art-Attachment's AP upscales her Lightning due to it being the exact solution she needed to reach the "next sage" that she felt her own personal esper abilities too weak to reach by themselves. DURA-wise, it just upscales from Mikoto's base Dura (as a higher rating) by blocking a C6 Element attack.
• Accelerator
  • Accelerator's Vector Manipulation AP has been remade to this;
    • Pre-Headshot - Varies (Will scale depending on the opponent's own durability, via reflecting and multiplying the rebounding/reactionary forces encountered upon contact); up to Mountain level with Vector Control (Stronger than his Post-Headshot key as he was unsure if the Sisters had even recovered half of his full power)
    • Post-Headshot - Varies; Mountain level (Even with half of his full power, he is still the strongest Esper in Academy City, making him far superior to Sogiita Gunha and Level Six Shift Misaka Mikoto) to Multi-Continent level with Vector Control (Can borrow the Earth's rotational energy and infuse it in an attack)
    • Post-Awakening - Varies; Country level (His attacks could harm Misha Kreutzev and Kazakiri Hyouka[2]) to Multi-Continent level with Vector Control
    • Post-Qliphah Puzzle 545 - Varies; at least Planet level, likely far higher with Vector Control (Fought Coronzon to a standstill,[3][4] and could destroy Nephthys's body thoroughly albeit her regeneration capabilities and immortality allowed her to outpace his superior destructive capabilities[5])
    • Only doing this as a side-thing. Kinda wanna remove this, but wanna hear your guys thoughts if this is a good idea or not.
• Mugino
  • As stated in my CRT; Mugino has no reason to scale to Misaka in the slightest in account for the fact that the latter was extremely weakened when they fought but she was still doing fine. Only scaling for AP she has for MD is from upscaling from Frenda's 8B bombs and Kiyama Harumi's 8B Level 4 abilities
• Salome
  • Her External Offering states has changed to this; Varies (Can destroy and offer up weapons to a god to increase her strength and gain the destroyed weapons' traits[1]); higher with Normal Absorptions (After absorbing the weapons from the Kamisato faction, she gained superhuman athletic prowess in Touma's eyes and overpowered Yuiitsu[2][4]), City level with Stronger Absorptions (After absorbing several of Misaka Mikoto's attacks, she gained the ability to destroy and absorb her Railgun[1])
• Kinuhata
  • Has gotten an entire remake in scaling... somewhat
    • AP - Human level physically (Stated to be a frail girl underneath her Offense Armor), City Block level with Handheld Anti-tank Missile Launchers (Uses the same type of explosives that Frenda Seivelun uses), higher with Offense Armor (Shouldn't be weaker than her defensive power as she uses it to amplify her physicals)
    • Dura - Human level physically, City Block level with Offense Armor (Blocked Kouzaku Mitori's Liquid Shadow, drone knives, and even stated that she probably couldn’t defeat her and had to immobilize her)

Everything else is just added and refined justifications for stats or scaling. F.E, Kihara Kagun is the strongest Kihara in his time, making him superior to Kihara Yuiitsu and Kihara Enshuu; Tsurigane Saryou can keep up with Kuroko Shirai, and the latter sees her as having extraordinary physical abilities, but the former been stated by WoG to be to a not even second-rate ninja and she has even remarked that Oumi Shuri has specs that are "high as hell", whom was one-shotted by Seria's sister; etc etc, you get the idea.

... Also. Once I get the time (and motivation), I'mma make a section for Komaba to separate his Base stats from his Hard Taping stats to two separate keys for scaling purposes.

... Anyways. Comments? Suggestions? Currently at a stand-still with this sandbox, so I can't continue my CRT until it is resolved. Tbh, I essentially don't care about Tier upgrades or whatever, I just wanna make the scaling and justifications nice and proper.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Making Mikoto's Railgun upscale her lightning by virtue of her numerous statements saying her Railgun is a "cruel attack produced unequaled destruction" and explicitly stating her Railgun is supposed to be her trump card.

Lightning has special considersations for scaling since it causes disproportionately small damage for the energy it has.
The statements compare Destructive Capacity, not direct energy output. Comparing two different types of energy (kinetic vs electric) based on DC they have doesn't work great.
Like, the argument is basically that the Railgun can do more damage against enough environment for it to have lightning level durability, but as the Lightning Feats page says, the environment not getting destroyed by the lightning strike doesn't really work for its durability.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Lightning has special considersations for scaling since it causes disproportionately small damage for the energy it has.
The statements compare Destructive Capacity, not direct energy output. Comparing two different types of energy (kinetic vs electric) based on DC they have doesn't work great.
Like, the argument is basically that the Railgun can do more damage against enough environment for it to have lightning level durability, but as the Lightning Feats page says, the environment not getting destroyed by the lightning strike doesn't really work for its durability.

Yay, input~ Tbch, the topic regarding Misaka's Railgun AP was just a draw to get some attention and not entirely smth serious.

Now, I await for further comments.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

snip.

Also.

[Toaru] Alice Anotherbible's Resistances

Not really a CRT, just a discussion thread to find out which resistances are to be listed as "possible resistance" in Alice's profile (but since it's in theory about adding content, I am creating it in the CRT subforum). It was accepted in a CRT and it's based on this: "Also, her body was...

vsbattles.com

Check this out. It really needs a mod versed in Toaru, lel.

Welp, I'mma go back to Peak of Runia and decide if it is worth it to whale for W-alter in Arknights.

 

[Churronzon]

Pre-Headshot - Varies (Will scale depending on the opponent's own durability, via reflecting and multiplying the rebounding/reactionary forces encountered upon contact); up to Mountain level with Vector Control (Stronger than his Post-Headshot key as he was unsure if the Sisters had even recovered half of his full power)

This is a wrong way to index it imo. It sounds dumb for me to suggest since we removed it from his dura, but the cap to his Varies while avoiding NLF would be High 1-C since he can turn an opponent's High 1-C attack against them and in general sends things back at an amplified level.

An even greater attack shot back up from below as if to rebel against heaven. The #1 had
taken the satellite weapon head-on and then sent it right back with double the power.
-NT21

The justification would be slightly reworded to "Will scale depending on the vectors he comes into contact with yada yada"

If he encountered something that is island level, your cap would mean he couldn't utilize that power if he came into contact with it. It even contradicts the multicontinental earth-siphoning feat.
I've been meaning to make an Accelerator thread too, maybe I'll add it. The other stuff are:

• Removing the following stamina justification: "(This time limit does not apply to his other angelic forms)"
  This is fanon. The time limit does apply. His wings explicitly do not return his vector ability.
• Removing the following macro quantum justification: "Rearranged Last Order's electrons in her brain". He instead manipulated her brain signals which is moreso a bioelectricity feat and not macro quantum.
• Removing the Resistance to Extreme Temperatures: He's not resisting it; his vector reflection just prevents him from interacting with the extreme heat to begin with.
  If he actually had a resistance, he wouldn't need the ability to protect him.
• Adding a speed justification: Could match Nephthys
• Adding his reliance on the Misaka Network

I don't know where the exceeding supercomputers statement comes from but I don't want to give up on that yet lol. Maybe it's from OT5 and his feat with the Testament?

 

[Aseka]

Removing the following macro quantum justification: "Rearranged Last Order's electrons in her brain". He instead manipulated her brain signals which is moreso a bioelectricity feat and not macro quantum.

He does manipulate the brain signals in electron scale.

August 31, 8:12:51 PM.
There were less than four meters between them. He couldn’t miss at this range if he tried.
“Kuh…!?”
Accelerator was using all of his strength to control Last Order’s brain signals, so he couldn’t divide it to reflect anything. If he did, he’d introduce an error in the precise electrical signals on the scale of an electron microscope. That would mean frying Last Order’s brain to a crisp.
Only 7,001 lines of code remained.
Only nine warning windows were left.
His work wasn’t over. Time slowed to a crawl.
Amai probably had no idea what Accelerator was doing, but from his point of view, just the thought of him touching Last Order, whom he absolutely couldn’t let die, was probably close to driving him insane.

 

[XDragnoir]

bioelectricity

And Bioelectricity is, as the name suggests, electricity... so it is macro-quantum.

 

[Churronzon]

I saw a distinction between manipulating a general flow of things vs manipulating the spin of each electron specifically, similar to affecting the flow of wind rather than the properties of each individual molecule found in the air, and didn’t expect the wiki to add macro quantum to every electricity user and molecular matter manip to every air bender but you do have a point.

I'll think it over more; not like I was going to post it anytime soon.

 

[XDragnoir]

I saw a distinction between manipulating a general flow of things vs manipulating the spin of each electron specifically, similar to affecting the flow of wind rather than the properties of each individual molecule found in the air, and didn’t expect the wiki to add macro quantum to every electricity user and molecular matter manip to every air bender but you do have a point.

I'll think it over more; not like I was going to post it anytime soon.

The quote says he is doing it in the scale of an electron microscope, what you're saying here ignores that.

Not like the "flow" of electricity inside of a brain is even a large scale that be seen with the naked eye, which is when what you're saying would apply, + what you're saying doesn't always apply (or make any difference, most of the time).

 

[Accelerate420]

I saw a distinction between manipulating a general flow of things vs manipulating the spin of each electron specifically, similar to affecting the flow of wind rather than the properties of each individual molecule found in the air, and didn’t expect the wiki to add macro quantum to every electricity user and molecular matter manip to every air bender but you do have a point.

I'll think it over more; not like I was going to post it anytime soon.

Honestly, what should be removed is that feat as a justification for macro-quantum matter manipulation (Old translation), when it should be under macro-quantum bioelectrcity manipulation.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Trismegistus

H.T. Trismegistus (short for Hermes Thoth Trismegistus) is a transcendent belonging to the Bridge Builder's Cabal and a butler serving Alice Anotherbible introduced in Souyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index. He is searching for a savior of the world that can solve its socio-ecological problems caused by...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Johann Valentin Andreae

Having been summoned by the Bridge Builder's Cabal with the hope of being their savior, Christian Rosencreutz, he instead cared only to satisfy his own desires and passion. It was later revealed by Alice that he was not in fact the allegorical CRC, but the author of its legends who grew...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I just noticed these profiles was made. Nice... I give compliments to the chief that cooked 'em.

 

[XDragnoir]

Honestly, what should be removed is that feat as a justification for macro-quantum matter manipulation (Old translation), when it should be under macro-quantum bioelectrcity manipulation.

Why? Accelerator's powers aren't limited to specific targets, if he can use vector control in X scale then he can do it to similar sized targets, it doesn't make sense to limit it to a super specific thing such as bioelectricity.

Either it's macro-quantum and his powers can be applied in such a scale or it isn't macro-quantum and we remove it altogether.

 

[Accelerate420]

Why? Accelerator's powers aren't limited to specific targets, if he can use vector control in X scale then he can do it to similar sized targets, it doesn't make sense to limit it to a super specific thing such as bioelectricity.

Either it's macro-quantum and his powers can be applied in such a scale or it isn't macro-quantum and we remove it altogether.

That's not really what I said. I said this specific feat justification erroneously says electrons/matter is being manipulated when that's not the case anywhere in the text so it should be changed to the bioelectricty section. It's not that he can't do it, it's just that the justification given isn't correct.

 

[XDragnoir]

That's not really what I said. I said this specific feat justification erroneously says electrons/matter is being manipulated when that's not the case anywhere in the text so it should be changed to the bioelectricty section. It's not that he can't do it, it's just that the justification given isn't correct.

Anyway, if we don't use this one, which other feats would better be used to showcase the precision of his control then?