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Toaru Discussion thread New Fourms #1

ZERO7772

ZERO7772

10,214
1,790
Since people are too bust figuring the number of Espers living in AC, I am gonna make the General thread myself

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Discuss!
 
Why does Accels Post-Headshot Base have "Has control over remote vectors" again?
 
OT19 is a long book. Any idea which specific part it was?
 
There's two occasions in OT19 where it could be argued Accelerator affects things seemingly without touching them. We did end up finding out in NT that Accelerator can just send invisible silent slicing attacks, which could explain the chains being cut in the first quote. The second one is a vague description of the fight which could be simply omitting Accelerator touching the Spark Signal terrorists, and Accelerator could possibly be doing the "fingers being blown away" thing with the gun he was carrying at the moment.

OT19 Prologue

At this point, Accelerator paused slightly.

He looked at the girl still hanging there, and turned on his electrode once more.

All he did was move his fingers slightly, and the chains binding the girl were cut off inexplicably.

OT19 Chapter 1 Part 7

Taking hostages didn’t work.

As soon as they tried to reach for the kids, their wrists were twisted in an unnatural manner.

Dynamite didn’t work.

As soon as they tried to push the button for it to explode, their fingers were blown away along with the button.
 
Those could also be interpreted as feats for Accelerators air manipulation. At that point in time, he was reasonably experienced at controlling air.
 
His airs attacks do tend to have more noticeable effects on his surroundings than the thing he aimed for simply being cut by something invisible, which is what definitely happens in the first quote. Second is too vague in general for me, so not solid evidence there.
 
Well, it isn't like we have many quotes with Accel, winged or not, saying directly that he "remote vector controlled X or Y", so i think at least the second quote could be taken as remote vector control.
 
Why would he have something else?
 
Didn't the spell upgrade both his AP and Dura? I need to read his fights again, but i don't remember he being in danger of being oneshot or something like that.
 
I don't remember a statement or feat of durability on that level. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
The spell was meant to purify the body so it not upgrading the body to the same extent it upgrades the spells is very strange.

Aside from that, Aleister attacked Mathers with a physical attack that was amped with magic, and Mathers was able to block it.

But anyway, Aleister's profile is a mess...
 
I'm not sure how much of a mess Aleister's profile is. But on the Accelerator thing. Tbh it's a bit confusing. OT19, at least the first quote would suggest he can manipulate vectors remotely but then vectors are quite literally everywhere, through air, molecules etc. etc. etc. which are both invisible to the human eye. So it's entirely possible that in OT19 that he didn't manipulate vectors remotely but rather was manipulating the vectors around him. That said the wording points to it being remote vector manipulation at least in my opinion.

But I don't really mind if we change it to Can possibly manipulate vectors remotely or something like that either. Maybe it's more Pseudo-remote vector manipulation. I don't know.

I kind of feel with Accelerator power Kamachi is both vague yet very descriptive at the same time.
 
Well, we agreed the winged keys aren't exactly their own keys since Accel can use them "in base", and then you seemed worried with the possibility of match ups being impossible, i just remembered you that tier upgrades can be restricted in a fight even if they are the same key.
 
Also, i was reading Touma's profile, his sixth sense does not fit Analytical Prediction or Precognition, it is Instinctive Reaction (the first two are for conscious actions taken based in your opponents actions and seeing the future, respectively, IR is for characters that do the first power subconsciously/unconsciously)
 
The fact that Touma needs to see "natural" things for "precog" to kick in, but doesn't have that problem with supernatural stuff, and also has FTL reactions to latter while not exceeding Mhypersonic for the former?
 
Yeah, his instinctive reaction is better against supernatural attacks than natural attacks, that does not mean it is another power, tho, it just means he has some limitations against certain things that don't apply to other things, it still is Instinctive Reaction.
 
Not exactly - the "beta" version works equally good on natural and supernatural, and it wasn't until OT18 that strictly supernatural-sensitive "alpha" version showed up. And I think clues visual per se were needed for both versions until Othinus Arc. Even if it's technically the same thing, just with two "stages", it should still be noted in his profile, maybe smth like this (corrections if this is overshooting, please):
Speed: Peak Human (fast enough to fight and dodge attacks from multiple people at the same time), High Hypersonic+ (lightning timer), possibly Massively Hypersonic reaction speed to natural movement (capable of following battle between Kanzaki and Carissa, but incapable of keeping up when confronted by them), FTL+ reaction speed to supernatural movement (kept up with Othinus's attacks)

[...]

Precognition: Literally referred in the original Japanese novels as Premonition Perception or Sense of Foreboding (前兆の感知 Zenchō no Kanchi), but translated as Precognition in the fan translation for simplicity. Precognition is the term used by characters to refer to the skill unconsciously developed by Kamijou Touma through his many battles. Touma has gotten into such a plethora of fights that he now can subconsciously anticipate attacks coming his way. Combined with his reflexes and the courage to keep his body and thoughts moving allows him to judge accurately what to do next. This works because Touma is capable of unconsciously analyzing minute changes in the battlefield and involuntary movements made by his enemies that likely not even they are aware of. For example, Misaka Mikoto's electromagnetic fields making metal items around her resonate. Even if Touma doesn't consciously register these things, his unconscious does, allowing him to accurately predict the path of an attack and move his body accordingly to stop it with Imagine Breaker, dodge it or try to reduce the damage to his vitals in case the former two options aren't possible. It's because of this skill that Touma has been able to react to supersonic attacks, but it's been noted that if he consciously takes note of it in battle and tries to use it then it would likely fail. Due to the mechanics of this skill, it can be sealed by an opponent who can restrict the information he receives, like the cyborg Rensa who could completely freeze her face and control all of her body involuntary muscular movements. This skill can be more simply described as a "sixth sense" to react to upcoming attacks. Later on, reaction speed to supernatural (by Imagine Breaker's standards) movement starts exceeding the one to natural movement, and eventually neccessity for visual feedback from supernatural threats disapppears.
Click to expand...
 
OK, I'll take a shot at the key, taking the earlier debate and the issue of not exactly scaling from Anna into account. Things I'm unsure of are left with question marks.
Tier: 9-C, at most 9-A with magic

Powers and Abilities: As in base, plus Magic, Carbon Manipulation and Resistance to Mind Manipulation (?) via St. Germain virus

Attack Potency: Street Level physically, at most Small Building level with magic (somewhat less efficient than normal St. Germain, due to having to avoid Imagine Breaker while refining magic power)

Speed, Lifting Strength, Striking Strength, Stamina (?), Standard Equipment and Intelligence (?): As in base

Durability: Street Level physically, at most Small Building level with magic (doesn't have Chambord standard St. Germain does)

Range: Several tens of meters with carbon spears

Weaknesses: Using magic and moving Imagine Breaker around at the same time is impossible, and requires "switching controls"; because Touma is technically an esper, every single spell and even "switch" between him and virus being in control slowly kills his body.

Notable Attacks/Techniques:
  • Carbon Manipulation: Derived and developed from the legend of St. Germain being able to repair scratched diamonds, the virus can manipulate carbon-based materials, such as diamonds, melting them down and forming them into new shapes, such as spears, walls or pillars. In carbon-rich environments such as the Dianoid, which is almost entirely constructed from carbon-based materials, St. Germain is capable of skewering its opponent with spears from all directions, with each individual St. Germain being able to create around a hundred carbon spears.
Click to expand...
 
I still think Germain-Touma should be put on Germain's page, not Touma's page. Touma has multiple keys already, Germain has only one. It should be easier to read that way.
 
I know pages with 6-7 keys, 4 keys is far from the "limit", so i think we can still add this one to his page.
 
It's not that it's forbidden to have many keys, but Germain-Touma is a fusion of both characters and could hence be listed on either page. What reason is there not to put it on the one where it doesn't make the profile hard to read?
 
DontTalkDT said:
It's not that it's forbidden to have many keys, but Germain-Touma is a fusion of both characters and could hence be listed on either page. What reason is there not to put it on the one where it doesn't make the profile hard to read?
Click to expand...
Meh I disagree. We have much worse profiles like the Alister one that we should think of a way to fix rather than whining about Touma having 4 keys.
Accel has 5.
 
I think he was close enough to actually see sparks and react accordingly before she fired. Or we can say that this is a comedic outlier. Or even declare it the first time he reacts without visual clues.
 
So, how many profiles are in need of revisions? Aleister, Accel, possibly Rensa, Fiamma, Touma (or Germain) and Anna, any others?
 
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