Toaru Discussion thread New Fourms #1

[Aseka]

Can anyone verify whether these recent changes to Kamijou Touma are legit? I don't think it's the sorta thing that really needs a CRT, so I'd usually just evaluate it myself, but the scans add up to dozens of pages of text in the 22nd novel of a series I've never read, so I'd rather leave it to someone more knowledgeable.

Yeah it's legit

 

[XDragnoir]

What about his range of flintlocks or other number of that spell?

Non-amped by BR it would have the same range of a flintlock, no?

 

[Churronzon]

Do the current speed standards require that Othinus' "instantaneous attack speed" should be changed to "infinite"?

Noticed instant isn't a speed value

 

[Aseka]

Do the current speed standards require that Othinus' "instantaneous attack speed" should be changed to "infinite"?

I forgot how is the feats, could you send it?

 

[Churronzon]

The thing on her profile is referring to her reality warping with Gungnir. It should prob just be removed but that requires a CRT

 

[Aseka]

The thing on her profile is referring to her reality warping with Gungnir. It should prob just be removed but that requires a CRT

Well, yes, I don't remember Othinus have infinite speed, so it maybe referring to her instant reality warping.

 

[ToaruCounterfeitCRC]

Do the current speed standards require that Othinus' "instantaneous attack speed" should be changed to "infinite"?

Noticed instant isn't a speed value

Her world ending attack should just get an Immeasurable speed imo. Temporal change is subject to the world itself (which she fully manipulates) but her attack shatters the entire world instantly. It is, therefore, not measurable using S = D/T.

The thing on her profile is referring to her reality warping with Gungnir. It should prob just be removed but that requires a CRT

Isn't throwing the Gungnir a single attack move? I don't think it should be removed.

But, but she was just adding a new phase!

Magic God Othinus had the ability to create, so she was technically not destroying
anything. This may have been a change brought about by adding a new phase into the
world. Nevertheless, it was blatantly obvious what the scene before Kamijou’s eyes would
produce.

Given how the narration goes, I would consider this part a wishful thinking of Kamijou's rather than a WoG.
After all below says the world is smashed to pieces as soon as the lance was fired.

As the lance was fired with tremendous force, the “happy world” was smashed to pieces
as if space itself was being torn apart.

 

[XDragnoir]

Her world ending attack should just get an Immeasurable speed imo. Temporal change is subject to the world itself (which she fully manipulates) but her attack shatters the entire world instantly. It is, therefore, not measurable using S = D/T.

No? Immeasurable speed requires moving throwing time, simply interacting with it does not grant Immeasurable speed.

Isn't throwing the Gungnir a single attack move? I don't think it should be removed.

Zon was talking specifically about reality warping, not Throwing Gungnir.

 

[MeidoIzayoi]

Her world ending attack should just get an Immeasurable speed imo. Temporal change is subject to the world itself (which she fully manipulates) but her attack shatters the entire world instantly. It is, therefore, not measurable using S = D/T.

having a tier 1 attack doesn't automatically gives it an immeasurable speed

 

[ToaruCounterfeitCRC]

No? Immeasurable speed requires moving throwing time, simply interacting with it does not grant Immeasurable speed.

having a tier 1 attack doesn't automatically gives it an immeasurable speed

Okay I stand debunked. I initially thought an attack with a spreading speed not quantifiable by time lapsed would count as Immeasurable.

Zon was talking specifically about reality warping, not Throwing Gungnir.

Throwing Gungnir attack speed should be Unknown? Or Infinite with ED? I am more down to this than just simply Infinite because for its target it actually flies some distance before impact.

 

[StrangerALover]

Why was the H1C accelerator barrier removed? when it was indicated in the novel itself that he could repel 11D attacks, and this was reinforced by the fact that he was able to block the MFS Coronzon, which comes from the higher Sephira in Sephiroth

 

[MeidoIzayoi]

Accel will have 11D slapped on his P&A page some time later
I think

 

[XDragnoir]

Why was the H1C accelerator barrier removed? when it was indicated in the novel itself that he could repel 11D attacks, and this was reinforced by the fact that he was able to block the MFS Coronzon, which comes from the higher Sephira in Sephiroth

To Aru Majutsu no Index: Fixing Issues with Accelerator

Character To Be Affected https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Accelerator Side Note Hey, hey, fanta here. Wanna just say that this CRT is only focusing on "fixing" Accelerator, nothing more nothing less. Therefore, any mentions of characters that aren't Accelerator will be ignored, even if they...

vsbattles.com

Either this thread or another of the most recent ones.

tldr: His reflection is hax, so it has to be indexed somewhere else, the potency is still the same.

 

[StrangerALover]

To Aru Majutsu no Index: Fixing Issues with Accelerator

Character To Be Affected https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Accelerator Side Note Hey, hey, fanta here. Wanna just say that this CRT is only focusing on "fixing" Accelerator, nothing more nothing less. Therefore, any mentions of characters that aren't Accelerator will be ignored, even if they...

vsbattles.com

Either this thread or another of the most recent ones.

tldr: His reflection is hax, so it has to be indexed somewhere else, the potency is still the same.

To Aru Majutsu no Index: Fixing Issues with Accelerator

Character To Be Affected https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Accelerator Side Note Hey, hey, fanta here. Wanna just say that this CRT is only focusing on "fixing" Accelerator, nothing more nothing less. Therefore, any mentions of characters that aren't Accelerator will be ignored, even if they...

vsbattles.com

Either this thread or another of the most recent ones.

tldr: His reflection is hax, so it has to be indexed somewhere else, the potency is still the same.

So add this to his profile, that he can scale to H1C through the vector barrier, dude, he's already proven that he can do it, so we need to add H1C to his profile. I generally wonder how he can even be a 4-B when he showed a uni feat in the battle with nephthys

 

[StrangerALover]

Accel will have 11D slapped on his P&A page some time later
I think

Judging by the way they scale here I don't think so.

 

[XDragnoir]

So add this to his profile, that he can scale to H1C through the vector barrier, dude, he's already proven that he can do it, so we need to add H1C to his profile. I generally wonder how he can even be a 4-B when he showed a uni feat in the battle with nephthys

Do you know the difference between hax and AP?

Hax like what Accelerator does doesn't get noted anywhere in particular, at best it will be somewhere in his P&A like Meido said.

Also, he didn't have a single universal AP feat, adding the 3rd Tree doesn't scale to AP.

 

[StrangerALover]

Do you know the difference between hax and AP?

Hax like what Accelerator does doesn't get noted anywhere in particular, at best it will be somewhere in his P&A like Meido said.

Also, he didn't have a single universal AP feat, adding the 3rd Tree doesn't scale to AP.

lmao. Do you even know what you're talking about? I'm writing to you that his imaginary vectors stretched across the universe, which created a vortex spear that could harm Nephthys. If you need scans, I can provide them to you. His attack range can potentially increase to Uni+ due to this feat, hence we conclude that he can generate and concentrate Energy into his attacks at high levels

What does Clonoth have to do with it?

Clonoth can potentially scale above the phases

 

[XDragnoir]

I'm writing to you that his imaginary vectors stretched across the universe, which created a vortex spear that could harm Nephthys. If you need scans, I can provide them to you.

Sure, I'd like to see where it says that "his imaginary vectors stretched across the universe", that would indeed help a lot.

 

[StrangerALover]

Sure, I'd like to see where it says that "his imaginary vectors stretched across the universe", that would indeed help a lot.
Yeah.

Spoiler: For Accelerator

Do not underestimate the computing power of Misak /return! This light breeze is not even close to what we would call a storm/return!!Something supposedly invisible has spread from Qliphah Puzzle 545 in all directions. Perhaps she saw it in this form because she was a demon.Someone else might have seen something different in it.Despite this, this is what the translucent girl saw.— 10 and 22?She swallowed. Qliphah Puzzle 545 gasped when she saw that it overlapped with the Surface World.— This makes 32, but 31 and 32 are duplicates. This is the only path indicated by 78 maps. But it's too different from the Tarot I know!— I do not know how you see it / return. Misaki is just here as we are /return. We are all with him all the time and in all places /return. Process it in whatever form is easiest for you /return. As Misak's Will, I authorize this remote operation and give you control here /return. Use all the power here as you see fit, and protect what you want to protect/return!!


The answer was found here."Magic god, you're still clinging to the surface!! So don't think that you have a chance against my master who crossed the Abyss!!!!!I it was an explosive noise.But it wasn't the sound of a violent storm that the Accelerator was trying to cause.It was less certain.It was an invisible power that encompassed all parts of the world.His vector control ability turned it into a vortex that rushed towards Nephthys like a giant spear.

ToAru Majutsu no Index: New testament volume 22 chapter 4

 

[XDragnoir]

Okay so, where in that entire quote does it say "imaginary vectors" or "universe"?

What does Clonoth have to do with it?

And didn't you say Clonoth had nothing to do with it? Yet you're using literally the quote where Qliphah accesses it for the 1st time.

So, let me say this again, what Accel did there is hax, not AP.

That and "world" doesn't mean "universe" by default, that's your interpretation.

 

[StrangerALover]

Okay so, where in that entire quote does it say "imaginary vectors" or "universe"?



And didn't you say Clonoth had nothing to do with it? Yet you're using literally the quote where Qliphah accesses it for the 1st time.

So, let me say this again, what Accel did there is hax, not AP.

That and "world" doesn't mean "universe" by default, that's your interpretation.

Yes, I was a little mistaken, but this does not negate the fact that the tree was located above the surface world, and the accelerator used that invisible power of the clonoth that spread all over the world

.He used imaginary vectors to transform this invisible power into a vortex, that's what I meant by that, but my translator wrote something else tbh

So you guys should add this damn feat to his HAX ( You're guys just missing out on the feats, the same Touma fish eggs)

 

[XDragnoir]

Yes, I was a little mistaken, but this does not negate the fact that the tree was located above the surface world, and the accelerator used that invisible power of the clonoth that spread all over the world

And yet the best he could do was KO Nephtys, this clearly showcases the spear was not that strong.

Indeed, being above the surface world means absolutely nothing in-practice so far, Kamachi has not given any meaningful info about this that we can use for scaling purposes.

.He used imaginary vectors to transform this invisible power into a vortex, that's what I meant by that, but my translator wrote something else tbh

The quote says nothing about "imaginary vectors", why are you still bringing that up?

So you guys should add this damn feat to his HAX ( You're guys just missing out on the feats, the same Touma fish eggs)

As I said before, "Hax like what Accelerator does doesn't get noted anywhere in particular, at best it will be somewhere in his P&A like Meido said."

Indeed, did you even actually read his profile?

"Law Manipulation (By having the power over the (formerly) nameless third tree and inserting it into the world, Accelerator overwrote the rules that govern reality and created a new set of rules and a new hierarchy)"

This is already there, you're literally adding nothing so far.

 

[Churronzon]

And yet the best he could do was KO Nephtys, this clearly showcases the spear was not that strong.

When did he KO Nephthys? He was threatening to vaporize her in base form.

She had to dodge the spear and wait for Accel to take dmg from magic backlash.

 

[StrangerALover]

And yet the best he could do was KO Nephtys, this clearly showcases the spear was not that strong.

Indeed, being above the surface world means absolutely nothing in-practice so far, Kamachi has not given any meaningful info about this that we can use for scaling purposes.


The quote says nothing about "imaginary vectors", why are you still bringing that up?


As I said before, "Hax like what Accelerator does doesn't get noted anywhere in particular, at best it will be somewhere in his P&A like Meido said."

Indeed, did you even actually read his profile?

"Law Manipulation (By having the power over the (formerly) nameless third tree and inserting it into the world, Accelerator overwrote the rules that govern reality and created a new set of rules and a new hierarchy)"

This is already there, you're literally adding nothing so far.

Dude, I'll re-write this feat at least Uni, since the authors usually use the word "world" as Uni, and in the context of ToAru and 22NT, the surface world is generally Assiah (the human world, where all phases are located), so in any case, the feat of the accelerator is at least Uni+

Scans for this? Ok.

Aleister swung the lower part of his staff, which created a lot of heat from the friction. The flame split the angel's base of long blond hair.
As soon as the hair fell apart and scattered, the next attack came from behind the veil.
All this time, a sinister face appeared, using blond hair as a screen.
— Your Name Is IDOIGO, Wind Of The Wind. Obey the words that rule the tablet of the same color and reveal your pure power in front of me!!
It was a stream of unsullied element that shouldn't exist in the Surface World. A gust of wind hit Aleister Crowley right in the neck.

Spoiler: Phases in Assiah

the Great Demon lurking in the Abyss of the Sephiroth. But ascending the tree is not the only way to use it." She pointed her thumb at the center of her chest. "I obtained this physical body and descended the tree. The humans drowning at the bottom level only ever think of ascending it, but the connections go both ways. I started higher up and I can freely come and go, so this temporary level does not matter to me. Having a physical body is not a bad thing since it provides practical benefits in this world. And it allows me to reach the physical and scientific layer at the very bottom where all other phases are folded up."

They literally wrote to you here that it is literally located above the phases and the universe, since this is a metaphysical tree, from where the accelerator drew invisible power

Spoiler: Clonoth meta

What he saw in front of him was not just another realm intersecting from another phase. This was different from the cosmology of the microcosm and macrocosm, which had been talked about for more than two thousand years along with Sephiroth and Clipot.
The Sephiroth was a Tree of Life that showed how to properly build a human mind. By working on the right understanding, you can purify your soul and rise in rank one at a time. But if you looked at it incorrectly and mistakenly thought that you had already climbed to the top, you will lose control of your mind and get a negative result.
The Clipot was a Tree of Evil that showed how to create and use the negative sides of the human mind, such as envy and anger. It usually manipulated people and led to chaotic destruction, but if used correctly, it could bring positive results, such as art born of anger.

"And yet the best he could do was KO Nephtys, this clearly showcases the spear was not that strong"

What are you talking about, buddy?

This spear literally nullified the regeneration of Nephthys, and if it had penetrated her, she would have died completely, why would you even think that this energy spear is weak when it comes from the metaphysical tree that is located above Assiah? What the hell are you talking about?

Stop talking nonsense already, and accept the fact that this is a Universe + feat at least, because the whole context of ToAru and Volume himself indicates this, besides, as I already wrote, he drew strength FROM the METAPHYSICAL TREE, do you even know what it is, buddy?

I can send more evidence because there are a lot of them in this volume, and it all comes down to the fact that his feat scales to a Universe + minimum

How do you guys feel about this at all?

"Kamachi has not given any meaningful info about this that we can use for scaling purposes"

What the hell are you talking about, man? Have you even read LN, I wonder? I've already sent minor evidence above, which casts doubt on your argument, I can send more evidence because almost the whole damn novel is about it.

Above Assiah is Yetzirah (Binah sephira),in which the angels are located, and they, in turn, already have immeasurable speed and Plot manip, are transcendent to the human world and phases (I do not know about the phase of Lilith, since she is above Assiah to be cleansed from original sin)


Above all of them is Coronzon, which dwells in Da'at, and that, in turn, is transcendent in relation to the Four World. Hence, she uses magic that transcends Assiah (the surface world)

 

[XDragnoir]

When did he KO Nephthys? He was threatening to vaporize her in base form.

She had to dodge the spear and wait for Accel to take dmg from magic backlash.

Wasn't she KOed at the end? Anyway, he didn't vaporize her, I am pretty sure of that, not even with the vortex spear.

Dude, I'll re-write this feat at least Uni, since the authors usually use the word "world" as Uni, and in the context of ToAru and 22NT, the surface world is generally Assiah (the human world, where all phases are located), so in any case, the feat of the accelerator is at least Uni+

That's not how this works, you need evidence that specific case was using "world" as "universe", indeed, Kamachi was using "Surface World" pretty frequently during NT22, if he didn't use it in this case that means a lot.

They literally wrote to you here that it is literally located above the phases and the universe, since this is a metaphysical tree, from where the accelerator drew invisible power

And being above the universe or metaphysical in nature means absolutely nothing when it comes to tiering and/or scaling.

"And yet the best he could do was KO Nephtys, this clearly showcases the spear was not that strong"

What are you talking about, buddy?

This spear literally nullified the regeneration of Nephthys, and if it had penetrated her, she would have died completely, why would you even think that this energy spear is weak when it comes from the metaphysical tree that is located above Assiah? What the hell are you talking about?

Stop talking nonsense already, and accept the fact that this is a Universe + feat at least, because the whole context of ToAru and Volume himself indicates this, besides, as I already wrote, he drew strength FROM the METAPHYSICAL TREE, do you even know what it is, buddy?

I can send more evidence because there are a lot of them in this volume, and it all comes down to the fact that his feat scales to a Universe + minimum

How do you guys feel about this at all?

"Kamachi has not given any meaningful info about this that we can use for scaling purposes"

What the hell are you talking about, man? Have you even read LN, I wonder? I've already sent minor evidence above, which casts doubt on your argument, I can send more evidence because almost the whole damn novel is about it.

Above Assiah is Yetzirah(Binah sephira),in which the angels are located, and they, in turn, already have immeasurable speed and Plot manip, are transcendent to the human world and phases (I do not know about the phase of Lilith, since she is above Assiah to be cleansed from original sin)


Above all of them is Coronzon, which dwells in Da'at, and that, in turn, is transcendent in relation to the Four World. Hence, she uses magic that transcends Assiah (the surface world)

Sure, then create a CRT and add all that.

 

[StrangerALover]

Wasn't she KOed at the end? Anyway, he didn't vaporize her, I am pretty sure of that, not even with the vortex spear.


That's not how this works, you need evidence that specific case was using "world" as "universe", indeed, Kamachi was using "Surface World" pretty frequently during NT22, if he didn't use it in this case that means a lot.


And being above the universe or metaphysical in nature means absolutely nothing when it comes to tiering and/or scaling.



Sure, then create a CRT and add all that.

World = Phases in New Testament
Normal phases are universes, as shown in New Testament
Surface World > Phases Choronzon talked about are also consistent with the narrative of the story

This also applies to the Clonoth, which is located above and is able to influence the four worlds

"I do not know about any four worlds"

Spoiler: Four Worlds

"Um, just a question. All of this…It's not just some kind of wake-up prank, is it?"
"I'm not sure what you mean by that question. Anyway." Kanzaki gave a cough. "Because an angel has been forcibly moved from a higher sefira to a lower one via Angel Fall, because of the fluctuations it has caused, the four worlds creating the form of the ten sefira- specifically, Olam Atzilut (the shaping world), Olam Beriah (the creating world), Olam Yetzira (the formative world), and Olam Asiyah (the physical world) are being affected"
"…Tsuchimikado-san, what on earth is this person saying?"
"Hmm, how would you put it simply, nya? Like you said, everyone's insides and outsides got swapped out. It's essentially a game of musical chairs. At the start of the game, all the chairs and people who need to sit are

"And being above the universe or metaphysical in nature means absolutely nothing when it comes to tiering and/or scaling." -

In the context of the series, this is how it works, since the physical aspect of the world is clearly below than the metaphysical one in toaru Majutsu

Because ToAru follows Kabbalah

I wonder why it is not on the verse page, when it is mentioned almost every time and serves as the cosmology of ToAru (behind which is Ein Sof), according to your logic, therefore Yogiri's Ultimate Ansemble should not scale, since it has no context at all, unlike Sephiroth in toAru

Why would I create a CRT when DT would reject anyway, because he doesn't want to scale ToAru to a higher level, and still understate verse when he rejected scaling Schrodinger's cats from one guy

 

[GunTish]

Why would I create a CRT when DT would reject anyway, because he doesn't want to scale ToAru to a higher level, and still understate verse when he rejected scaling Schrodinger's cats from one guy

I don't care about the rest, but why are you arguing here if you're sure nothing's gonna change?

 

[StrangerALover]

I don't care about the rest, but why are you arguing here if you're sure nothing's gonna change?

I'm just laughing at how toaru scales here

 

[XDragnoir]

World = Phases in New Testament
Normal phases are universes, as shown in New Testament

Phases are not separate spacetimes tho, it's an important part of the nature of the Toaru world and that directly affects how we tier things here.

Surface World > Phases Choronzon talked about are also consistent with the narrative of the story

This also applies to the Clonoth, which is located above and is able to influence the four worlds

And yet the best Accelerator could do with the Clonoth was a galaxy shaking feat and what you're claiming is a universe+ feat?

"And being above the universe or metaphysical in nature means absolutely nothing when it comes to tiering and/or scaling." -

In the context of the series, this is how it works, since the physical aspect of the world is clearly below than the metaphysical one in toaru Majutsu

Do you even know what "metaphysical" means? You're giving way too much emphasis on something that simply doesn't relate to power, tiering or anything like that.

Because ToAru follows Kabbalah

No one saying it doesn't.

I wonder why it is not on the verse page, when it is mentioned almost every time and serves as the cosmology of ToAru (behind which is Ein Sof), according to your logic, therefore Yogiri's Ultimate Ansemble should not scale, since it has no context at all, unlike Sephiroth in toAru

The verse page is outdated and while some things for the Sephiroth and other Trees are being planned, these things won't be tier related as the relationship between higher dimensions and the Trees is largely unexplained so far.

and still understate verse when he rejected scaling Schrodinger's cats from one guy

What do you mean? Which guy scales to Schrodinger's cat?

 

[Churronzon]

Wasn't she KOed at the end? Anyway, he didn't vaporize her, I am pretty sure of that, not even with the vortex spear.

Didn't doesn't mean couldn't. We scale other characters with much lesser statements and feats.

His drop of water eviscerated a huge chunk of Nephthys, proving pressurized attacks work. Learning this, he then opted for an AoE attack to overwhelm her regeneration, with the express intent of stripping her down to zero percent. Again, in base.

Spear > pressurized air and water

---

Does anyone have the quote of Kanzaki being able to kill the dragon residing inside Touma or something like that?

 

[XDragnoir]

Didn't doesn't mean couldn't. We scale other characters with much lesser statements and feats.

We have never ever scaled a character to universe level with less statements and feats than Accel had in his fight with Nephthys, what are you talking about?

A universal level attack would obviously damage Nephthys way beyond any previous attack from Accelerator could do, yet the damage done simply doesn't reflect that, which is a point against it having universe level AP to begin with.

His drop of water eviscerated a huge chunk of Nephthys, proving pressurized attacks work. Learning this, he then opted for an AoE attack to overwhelm her regeneration, with the express intent of stripping her down to zero percent. Again, in base.

Okay so what? First, it's very implied that at the start of their fight, when Nephthys was damaged by the water drop, she was barely trying or maybe not even trying to defend herself at all, as she's aware he couldn't deal with her regen (at the time).

He had the express intent of doing that and still didn't even come close to it even with a direct hit from his new super power, "didn't" does seem to mean "couldn't" in this case, unless you have another explanation for Nephthys not being "stripped down to 0%"

What does he being in "base form" change at all to this? No idea why you added that bit.

 

[Churronzon]

I wasn't arguing for universe level. That's the other guy.

---

yet the damage done simply doesn't reflect that, which is a point against it having universe level AP to begin with.

What damage done? It didn't land on anything important unless you consider her hair exactly as durable as the rest of her body.
Coronzon moment?

she was barely trying or maybe not even trying to defend herself at all, as she's aware he couldn't deal with her regen (at the time).

If she can reduce her dura whenever she wants, then yeah that'd be v relevant. I dunno if that's something the site would accept though. I do remember there being a thread about that.

He had the express intent of doing that and still didn't even come close to it even with a direct hit from his new super power,

So does that mean his spear is weaker than both the water blade and air bomb? What you're saying makes it sound like the Clonoth was a downgrade.
Also you call that a direct hit?

unless you have another explanation for Nephthys not being "stripped down to 0%"

After rereading it, the only reason he would have unmade his bomb was if he thought he'd get caught in the explosion as Qliphah was self-destructing again.
Do you have a different explanation for why he would opt for the spear instead of the bomb? Is it for the powernull properties like his profile states?

What does he being in "base form" change at all to this? No idea why you added that bit.

Because my only argument is that the spear scales (in potency) above an attack that can atomize her.

 

[XDragnoir]

I wasn't arguing for universe level. That's the other guy.

I know that, the point is that the discussion was about Accel being universe level, you just started to derail it to be about Nephthys surviving his attack.

---

What damage done? It didn't land on anything important unless you consider her hair exactly as durable as the rest of her body.
Coronzon moment?

It is stated to be blowing her body away before being fully diverted to hit her hair instead, and it's implied he used it again to finish her as he had taken even more magic recoil than before by the end of their battle and Nephthys was left damaged after their fight and didn't simply regen (she was even compared to a broken marionette).

If she can reduce her dura whenever she wants, then yeah that'd be v relevant. I dunno if that's something the site would accept though. I do remember there being a thread about that.

Why wouldn't the wiki accept that? That's a strange comment but sure, I see no reason why it wouldn't.

Not sure what thread you're talking about, but I do plan to bring that up whenever we do a 5B thread in the future.

So does that mean his spear is weaker than both the water blade and air bomb? What you're saying makes it sound like the Clonoth was a downgrade.

What? No, Nephthys clearly let the water drop damage her, that's the only explanation given nothing else he does comes even close to damaging her as much as the water drop.

I am saying the Vortex Spear isn't particularly more powerful than anything else he can use, possibly a bit stronger but its main thing is having regen null, it being having universe level strength make barely any sense.

Also you call that a direct hit?

Explained this above.

After rereading it, the only reason he would have unmade his bomb was if he thought he'd get caught in the explosion as Qliphah was self-destructing again.
Do you have a different explanation for why he would opt for the spear instead of the bomb? Is it for the powernull properties like his profile states?

As I said before, he needed the spear for the regen null.

Because my only argument is that the spear scales (in potency) above an attack that can atomize her.

don't think that's correct given what we actually saw it do + "rip you to zero percent" doesn't mean atomization as they are not even remotely the same thing.

 

[Churronzon]

you just started to derail it to be about Nephthys surviving his attack.

yeah I do that

It is stated to be blowing her body away before being fully diverted to hit her hair instead,

Blowing her torso away was just a callback to the water blade, not that he did it again with the spear. It's talking about a past event.
More specifically, it's highlighting the fact that contrary to last time she can't just stand still and choose to tank the attack. She has to divert it.

and it's implied he used it again to finish her as he had taken even more magic recoil than before by the end of their battle and Nephthys was left damaged after their fight and didn't simply regen (she was even compared to a broken marionette).

Dunno if this is even something we disagree on, but broken marionette can just mean unable to move/function just like the fly in a spiderweb analogy, not that her torso or anything was destroyed again. While you brought up good points here, as it's an offscreen fight, we can't tell if the spear landed or if he used other types of attacks in conjunction.

Why wouldn't the wiki accept that? That's a strange comment but sure, I see no reason why it wouldn't.

Not sure what thread you're talking about, but I do plan to bring that up whenever we do a 5B thread in the future.

A staff thread was already made asking if we accept characters being able to lower their own durability. I don't remember how it resolved.

I am saying the Vortex Spear isn't particularly more powerful than anything else he can use, possibly a bit stronger but its main thing is having regen null, it being having universe level strength make barely any sense.

<Tentative name> Spear caps at slightly stronger lets fking goooo. At least maybe until Clonoth stops being a sapling ig

As I said before, he needed the spear for the regen null.

In Accelerator's own mind, he was confident the bomb would erase her, but then he unmade it and opted for the spear.

"rip you to zero percent" doesn't mean atomization as they are not even remotely the same thing.

I was just bored of using the same word. Can I go back to saying vaporization? Or maybe I'll just use 0%-ification.

Speaking of vaporization:

Spoiler: MisaMisa WN spoilers

RIP Touma

That was when she spotted someone.

It was truly a coincidence.

He was as far as you could get from Academy City’s seven Level 5s.

He was the kind of perfectly ordinary high schooler you could find anywhere.

He was a pointy-haired boy.

“Hey, do you know what’s going on in the city?”

It wasn’t a logical conclusion.

But Mikoto knew whoever got him on her side would win this. She was certain of it.

“H-hey, are you two alright? There’s been trouble cropping up all over the city.”

He couldn’t have imagined the two girls standing in front of him were the cause of all that trouble.

He was truly worried for them.

He was the kind of person who could manage that in a crisis.

“Anyway, we should stick together. Splitting up just increases the risk of one of us getting lost. Don’t worry. If we all work together, I just know we can get through this!”

Mikoto and Shokuhou had someone who would worry for them.

For his sake, they knew they had to stop this fighting.

Then it hit.

A mysterious water bomb dropped straight down from the giant satellite in orbit.

With a deafening boom, Kamijou Touma was vaporized.

“Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!?”

“Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!?”

Misaka Mikoto and Shokuhou Misaki both screamed.

And they forever lost the final thing that could have stopped them.


I love Chapter 2. Seeing Gunha knock himself out with his own Guts was hilarious XD

 

[XDragnoir]

I think we agree on everything else, but:

In Accelerator's own mind, he was confident the bomb would erase her, but then he unmade it and opted for the spear.

I was just bored of using the same word. Can I go back to saying vaporization? Or maybe I'll just use 0%-ification.

First, "0%" isn't atomization nor vaporization, as in both cases pieces of your body still remain, literal 0% can only be achieved via existence erasure so whatever word you try to put on top of this is not what the quote says.

Second, he didn't claim he would do that in a single attack, even if had done so, "0%" in this case was an obvious reference to Nephthys' regen/nature being explained through percentages, such as earlier in NT22:

"The same had happened during Kamisato Kakeru’s domination in the shadows of
Academy City. His World Rejecter had definitely hit Nephthys, but it had not completely
annihilated her. She had pulled that one off by splitting apart her own body so a portion
of it could remain in this world.
She was not built so losing any one of her organs would kill her.
The brown beauty managed herself via percentages."

So it wasn't even a literal claim, you're literally trying to take one of these silly things anime characters say before battle/attacking as a piece of evidence of how strong one of his special attacks should be. If he had said "I will erase you from this world" you'd probably be claiming Accel has existence erasure and if he had said "I will completely kill you" you would probably be claiming he has death hax or something like that.

For real, just drop this already.

 

[StrangerALover]

We would also like to add a new key to Kamijou Touma

 

[ShadeyD]

Can we add Temperature Manipulation to Accelerator's profile

 

[Churronzon]

Can we add Temperature Manipulation to Accelerator's profile

You actually made one

 

[XDragnoir]

We would also like to add a new key to Kamijou Touma

You mean a key for Dragon Lord Touma? Yeah we have to add that but we also have to see where CRC (and the Transcendents) will scale before we do that.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

You mean a key for Dragon Lord Touma? Yeah we have to add that but we also have to see where CRC (and the Transcendents) will scale before we do that.

The Othinus statement is controversial as frick, so... ignoring that, and the fact there is no possible way for 'em to directly scale to Saints 'sides stretching that statement of a single Transccendent being capable of rivialing the entire magic side, wouldn't they just all be 9-A via scaling above normal magicians like Stiyl and Tatemiya?