Toaru Discussion thread New Fourms #1

[XDragnoir]

The Othinus statement is controversial as frick, so... ignoring that, and the fact there is no possible way for 'em to directly scale to Saints 'sides stretching that statement of a single Transccendent being capable of rivialing the entire magic side, wouldn't they just all be 9-A via scaling above normal magicians like Stiyl and Tatemiya?

You know that, by your own revisions, we have several non-saints at saint tier as of now, right?

I am not trying to say where we should or shouldn't scale them here, right now, but this "no statements of directly matching saints, so lets go with the weakest magicians" is pretty flawed IMO.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

You know that, by your own revisions, we have several non-saints at saint tier as of now, right?

I am not trying to say where we should or shouldn't scale them here, right now, but this "no statements of matching actual saint, so lets go with the weakest magicians" is pretty flawed IMO.

I... don't even remember my CRTs at this point, Noir. And I'm pretty sure half of 'em have already been overwritten by other CRTs, so they likely don't matter too much. Probably.

That 'side... Aren't the non-saint peps at Saint tier very, very special people that are essentially among the "peak" of the magic, i.e, Birdway and Knight Leader, since they are vastly superior to those below 'em? Wouldn't it just be safe to scale the Fraud-cendents to the actual "normal" magician tier? The only thing they have going for them for on-screen feats is harming Touma and hype statements.

 

[XDragnoir]

I... don't even remember my CRTs at this point, Noir. And I'm pretty sure half of 'em have already been overwritten by other CRTs, so they likely don't matter too much. Probably.

Before your CRT we already had some, such as Elizard, Carissa and Knight Leader, but no, not all of your revisions have been overwritten (iirc, only the 8B stats actually got heavily changed)

That 'side... Aren't the non-saint peps at Saint tier very, very special people that are essentially among the "peak" of the magic, i.e, Birdway and Knight Leader, since they are vastly superior to those below 'em? Wouldn't it just be safe to scale the Fraud-cendents to the actual "normal" magician tier? The only thing they have going for them for on-screen feats is harming Touma and hype statements.

I don't agree with this because IMO if you don't want to use the statements then don't use them at all, don't make some random cut of "this tier is fair to scale but these others aren't", first that I don't think Leivinia, KL without Hrunting, Hel and any other non-saint 6Bs we may have are particularly special, second that the quotes about fighting the magic side don't say "we can fight the level of the magic side that anyone can reach, not any of the stronger magicians, have they a special nature or not"

My view on Transcendents is similar to my view on Golden Down members, they have more hype than feats and each member follows seemingly different rules for how to scale, so at the end of the day we will end up applying this statement on a case by case basis, for example, Bologna has mind hax, I really doubt we have to give her 6B AP, Aradia and Thebes on the other hand are very reliant on their AP, so they have a stronger case.

Beyond AP, we also probably have to decide on their speed scaling and how their Risk 4 will interact with these statements.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

snip

Neat, I suppose.

Can't really say much else here, but... Bologna will scale to whatever AP value TR-enhanced Aradia gets simply by the fact that she engaged in an offscreen battle with her with the text explicitly saying she managed to put up a decent fight and harm Aradia and only lost because she was massively weakened from blood lost from saving Touma twice. Am not sure if we can scale Random Letters and that woman who looks like that tall zombie chick from RE8 to this but whatever, lel.

For speed scaling... Can't they just scale to Touma, who is Peak Human... for some reason. Or maybe they can scale to Itsuwa barely keeping up with Acqua? Idk.

 

[XDragnoir]

Neat, I suppose.

Can't really say much else here, but... Bologna will scale to whatever AP value TR-enhanced Aradia gets simply by the fact that she engaged in an offscreen battle with her with the text explicitly saying she managed to put up a decent fight and harm Aradia and only lost because she was massively weakened from blood lost from saving Touma twice. Am not sure if we can scale Random Letters and that woman who looks like that tall zombie chick from RE8 to this but whatever, lel.

For speed scaling... Can't they just scale to Touma, who is Peak Human... for some reason. Or maybe they can scale to Itsuwa barely keeping up with Acqua? Idk.

Oh, thanks, at the very least you understood this whole deal isn't as simple as scaling all of them to the same value.

 

[StrangerALover]

can we scale the CRC correctly and give it a new profile? :moyayu:

 

[XDragnoir]

can we scale the CRC correctly and give it a new profile?

If you want to start a draft/blog for him and then a discussion thread for his tiering, sure.

That would help to at the very least start the Transcendents scaling discussions.

 

[StrangerALover]

If you want to start a draft/blog for him and then a discussion thread for his tiering, sure.

That would help to at the very least start the Transcendents scaling discussions.

I do not know how to publish templates, can I just write a blog about all its feats and levels?

 

[XDragnoir]

I do not know how to publish templates, can I just write a blog about all its feats and levels?

That already helps, yeah

 

[Churronzon]

can we scale the CRC correctly and give it a new profile? :moyayu:

Isn't he wall level?

What's the range of Nephthys' phase manip (3rd key) and Aleiszon's phase shift

 

[StrangerALover]

Isn't he wall level?

What's the range of Nephthys' phase manip (3rd key) and Aleiszon's phase shift

I don't think smashing an anti-skill army just by marching is a wall level.

I think it's a universal, since it's nerfed and could take damage from accelerator abilities

 

[XDragnoir]

Isn't he wall level?

Why?

What's the range of Nephthys' phase manip (3rd key) and Aleiszon's phase shift

Her profile sucks, but her range should be the same as her 2nd key with the one time use.

Aleister's phase shift is more of a targeted thing than an AoE like Nephthys and it's range doesn't seem that impressive from what we could see, so idk, line of sight at best, probably not much better than 10 or less meters going by the distance he was from CRC.

Also, can he even use it outside of AC? Iirc the Imaginary Number District doesn't cover the whole world yet, so idk if Aleister would be able to phase shift someone to there without being inside AC.

 

[GunTish]

Wouldn't CRC be 10-B Physically?

Even CRC’s body had to be made of protein and calcium. He couldn’t stop shells because his body was unusually tough – he activated spells to repel them.
So.
What if he was stopped from activating those defense spells, even for a split second?

- GT9 Chapter 3 Part 5

And then add "[tier] with magic"

 

[StrangerALover]

Wouldn't CRC be 10-B Physically?

- GT9 Chapter 3 Part 5

And then add "[tier] with magic"

Then all magic gods can be reduced to 10-b and h1c with magic

 

[GunTish]

Then all magic gods can be reduced to 10-b and h1c with magic

The Magic Gods have never been said to be normal humans physically, unlike CRC.

 

[MeidoIzayoi]

Then all magic gods can be reduced to 10-b and h1c with magic

pretty sure Magic Gods raw durability scales from their striking strength

 

[StrangerALover]

The Magic Gods have never been said to be normal humans physically, unlike CRC.

Coronzon literally called them people, and they fraudulently made their way to the top.

 

[StrangerALover]

Genesis Testament 10 looks promising in terms of revealing Alice's cards and ToAru cosmology in the case of New Testament 9-10

 

[GunTish]

Coronzon literally called them people, and they fraudulently made their way to the top.

Saints are humans too, and their durability is still much higher than regular humans.

Also, if you want to take Coronzon's shit talk seriously, we should also take Niang-Niang's as well. Which means Coronzon's pure fire is irrelevant to the Magic Gods.

“I see. Coronzon lurks behind the Sephiroth, not the Qliphoth. You’re a demon, but you’re also a gatekeeper who never falls from the tree. I see, I see. You form your power from the laws of the Olam Beriah, not the Olam Asiyah! Yeah, this is interesting!! You can probably earn a participation trophy and an ‘A for Effort’ for this!!”

- NT22 Chapter 3 Part 1

 

[Churronzon]

Wouldn't CRC be 10-B Physically?

Something around that. I thought he'd scale to Touma or something, but 10-B is fine with me.

Magic Gods aren't grouped in dura with magicians like CRC.

Magic Gods would have no reason to enter into a conflict with humans. It was true
humanity had enough weaponry to blow up the planet dozens of times over or to bring
about their own ruin hundreds of times over. But if they used every last one of those
weapons on the Magic Gods like there was a sale on implements of destruction, could they
so much as scratch them?

It serves my agenda that Magic Gods lost their observation ability

---

Aleister's phase shift is more of a targeted thing than an AoE like Nephthys and it's range doesn't seem that impressive from what we could see, so idk, line of sight at best, probably not much better than 10 or less meters going by the distance he was from CRC.

His phase shift was called a world, but if we wanna interpret world as a metaphor for the distorted hospital, that's fine.

Also, can he even use it outside of AC? Iirc the Imaginary Number District doesn't cover the whole world yet, so idk if Aleister would be able to phase shift someone to there without being inside AC.

I don't recall the IND, which produces magic-distorting effects, being mentioned.

---

Something else that concerns Nep's third key and Aleiszon: I was trying to scale Aleiszon's speed now that he has Aiwass and Coronzon helping him (although they too got blitzed), but apparently Aleister(2nd key) and Kanzaki are already three times faster than those two.

Does Kanzaki > Coronzon/Aiwass/Nerfed MGs track?

 

[XDragnoir]

Wouldn't CRC be 10-B Physically?

- GT9 Chapter 3 Part 5

And then add "[tier] with magic"

He may end up scaling to 9B like other default humans in the series, idk as of now but one of the two tiers for sure, but as Churro said he may scale to Touma (has anyone compiled his feats and statements yet?).

Then all magic gods can be reduced to 10-b and h1c with magic

Othinus crushed IT with her hand, other MGs can destroy the universe with a simple move of their body.

Coronzon literally called them people, and they fraudulently made their way to the top.

Because they are human, not because they are physically weak (they aren't currently and weren't at their peak).

It serves my agenda that Magic Gods lost their observation ability

Observation ability?

His phase shift was called a world, but if we wanna interpret world as a metaphor for the distorted hospital, that's fine.

So is Kamisato's New World, does Kamisato have universal range? His range is his body and a bit further than that with his shadow, were you talking about range or about size?

As for IND:

“I am the fool who attempted to suppress the creation of sparks by creating a new mythology as cushioning between the many phases. Unfortunately, it didn’t work because the Christian church wanted to protect their monopoly on the concept of god and sent their billions of followers against me. But since the theory itself was sound, I can at least spirit someone away.”

That's what Aleister said, isn't that new mythology/phase he talks about the IND? He makes it pretty clear that he is using the theory/creation of this mythology (IND) to spirit CRC away.

Something else that concerns Nep's third key and Aleiszon: I was trying to scale Aleiszon's speed now that he has Aiwass and Coronzon helping him (although they too got blitzed), but apparently Aleister(2nd key) and Kanzaki are already three times faster than those two.

Does Kanzaki > Coronzon/Aiwass/Nerfed MGs track?

Don't they scale to the same values? But yeah, iirc High Priest said something about not being as fast as a Saint back when invading AC, I will try to get the quote.

 

[XDragnoir]

Then all magic gods can be reduced to 10-b and h1c with magic

Coronzon literally called them people, and they fraudulently made their way to the top.

She was using her Railgun.
This attack was her namesake. The cruel attack produced unequaled destruction by firing
a piece of metal at three times the speed of sound. The friction of the air was so great that
the coin itself would melt into orange and vaporize after traveling fifty meters.
But as soon as the High Priest swung his dried arm horizontally, the unleashed strike was
deflected directly to the side.

This is from NT13, you had probably forgotten, but with this even if we disregard the planet level statements and the universal ones for their respective keys, they still wouldn't drop all the way down to 10B.

Does Kanzaki > Coronzon/Aiwass/Nerfed MGs track?

This was different from a Saint who could break the sound barrier. They were definitely
faster when it came to pure speed, but the High Priest was not pushing himself to his
limits. He would never self-destruct. Instead of just quick bursts of speed, he had near
infinite stamina. In some ways, this was much scarier.

This is also from NT13, I guess we could say that, given the context, this would be about movement speed rather than combat/attack speed, supported by Aleister going from fighting at saint speeds casually to not being able to block attacks from Coronzon later in the arc, but it technically still creates the hierarchy of Saints > Others in speed.

IMO feats and scaling wise everyone should be in the same values, other than that it's a matter of >=<~ everyone.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

This was different from a Saint who could break the sound barrier. They were definitely
faster when it came to pure speed, but the High Priest was not pushing himself to his
limits. He would never self-destruct. Instead of just quick bursts of speed, he had near
infinite stamina. In some ways, this was much scarier.

This is also from NT13, I guess we could say that, given the context, this would be about movement speed rather than combat/attack speed, supported by Aleister going from fighting at saint speeds casually to not being able to block attacks from Coronzon later in the arc, but it technically still creates the hierarchy of Saints > Others in speed.

IMO feats and scaling wise everyone should be in the same values, other than that it's a matter of >=<~ everyone.

Didn't Aleister also have the advantage of screwing with KL and Kanazki's magic by virtue of backdoor-ing (if this is a word) that resulted in her completely screwing over their innate strengths and having a stomp worthy advantage over ;em? Haven't read NT20 in a bit, but I vaugely remember that this was the case.

 

[XDragnoir]

Didn't Aleister also have the advantage of screwing with KL and Kanazki's magic by virtue of backdoor-ing (if this is a word) that resulted in her completely screwing over their innate strengths and having a stomp worthy advantage over ;em? Haven't read NT20 in a bit, but I vaugely remember that this was the case.

Iirc, he was only screwing with their spells via "I created the whole base y'all are using", he didn't have any way to mess with their saint physiology directly like an "I-deactivate-your-super-speed" spell or anything like that, indeed, the narration points out that Aleister's speed and negation were two different things that were at play and later on reconfirms this:

Imagine Breaker was not needed if you only needed to negate magic.
That was clear from the fact that a grimoire library held a central position in anti-magician
combat. And Mathers had so badly wanted to be the editor of modern Western magic
because he had wanted to establish rules that worked to his advantage. Just as a specific
search engine and a specific online store had covered the planet, he had wanted to stand
at the foundation of the infrastructure.
Aleister had something that let her keep up with their supersonic movements.
And she could reject all of their modern Western magic.
___

Even if she was weary from so many battles in quick succession, Aleister Crowley could
use Spiritual Tripping and the Blasting Rod at the same time, she could use the
optimization of her blood sacrifice to keep up with the supersonic battle of a Saint, and
she could neutralize and hijack all modern Western magic, so it was unusual for anyone
to be capable of engaging her in a purely magical battle.

So no, Aleister's anti-magic stuff has nothing to do with his speed being able to keep up with theirs.

 

[Churronzon]

So is Kamisato's New World, does Kamisato have universal range? His range is his body and a bit further than that with his shadow, were you talking about range or about size?

I had just misinterpreted the ability. How do you think we should index it in the P&A?

That's what Aleister said, isn't that new mythology/phase he talks about the IND? He makes it pretty clear that he is using the theory/creation of this mythology (IND) to spirit CRC away.

I interpreted that as an unknown event such as the failed attempt of establishing a collective understanding and phase of Thelema as the main philosophy/religion and interpretation of God, but was instead labeled as the wickedest man in the world and ostracized from everyone. Should refer back to the newspapers talking about him in NT20.

Wouldn't the IND be instrumental in destroying all other phases, not cushioning them from the rest?
The attempt to cushion the phases predates the very existence of the IND and so the IND wasn't thwarted by the church.
Aleister made multiple plans and failed multiple times. This instance could just be one of many.

Does he even have access to the tools of the city that let him utilize IND?
Wouldn't CRC be exploding?

Now, if they could completely control the incomplete Imaginary Number District and
bring forth a new phase...

The appearance of this phase would cause every magician to self-destruct by their own
hand...

Don't they scale to the same values?

Unless I'm misreading the blogs, Coronzon scales to 3,500,000 m/s and Kanzaki scales to 11,880,495.1 m/s. That's not the same value. Coronzon has no other speed justification listed.

Meaning Aleister's 2nd key scales three times higher than Coronzon and Aiwass, rendering the narration's implication of Aiwass and Coronzon's senses being superior pointless.

Second key Black wings Accelerator is scaling at least three times higher than Coronzon via scaling above Kanzaki's speed value.
Third key Accelerator is scaling higher than that, along with Gabriel and Kazakiri.
Fourth key Accelerator is scaling higher than that.

---

I'm ******* rambling sorry if this shit's incoherent

 

[ShadeyD]

Accel's black wings can chop through space?

NT7 Chapter 4 Part 9 (Rensa uses black wings)

“You don’t get it? The ace up the sleeve for Academy City’s #1 always shows itself when he’s truly cornered!!”

With a great roar, jet black wings erupted from her back.

“Sto-…” started Kakine Teitoku.

But before he could continue, his white body was sent flying over Fremea’s head and into the wall. The entire building trembled ominously.

That strike made the previous even match seem like a lie.

Rensa snapped her fingers, pointed toward Kakine’s crushed form, and whistled.

“I was completely right! You’ve gotta stick with the strongest!! Nothing beats close range!! Why even bother thinking about the others!? There’s a reason this power is ranked at #1 when yours is only at #2. Eh? Oh? I think there was an unconfirmed sighting of him using white wings in Russia…but I don’t know how to use those. Maybe the conditions are a bit different. Well, it doesn’t really matter!! Hee hee hee☆”

“Damn you…!!” shouted Kamijou in anger, but Rensa ignored him and swung a black wing horizontally.

That strike seemed to chop through space itself, so it should have transformed that boy’s body into a bunch of mangled flesh.

 

[Churronzon]

******

 

[Iiliminal]

What do you mean? Which guy scales to Schrodinger's cat?

maybe hes referring to my high 1-B toaru thread?
but i didnt use anything schrodingers cat related in my thread it was about curtana cutting through all dimensions that can be represented by whole numbers so...

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Accel's black wings can chop through space?

... Honestly, I was wondering when you would say this.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Unless I'm misreading the blogs, Coronzon scales to 3,500,000 m/s and Kanzaki scales to 11,880,495.1 m/s. That's not the same value. Coronzon has no other speed justification listed.

Meaning Aleister's 2nd key scales three times higher than Coronzon and Aiwass, rendering the narration's implication of Aiwass and Coronzon's senses being superior pointless.

Second key Black wings Accelerator is scaling at least three times higher than Coronzon via scaling above Kanzaki's speed value.
Third key Accelerator is scaling higher than that, along with Gabriel and Kazakiri.
Fourth key Accelerator is scaling higher than that.

---

I'm ******* rambling sorry if this shit's incoherent

Ye... we really got to fix the speed scaling one of these days. Maybe after I am done with calcing out all of the important speed feats or smth. About 70% done with doing this, anyways.

 

[XDragnoir]

I had just misinterpreted the ability. How do you think we should index it in the P&A?

BFR + Dimensional Travel.

I interpreted that as an unknown event such as the failed attempt of establishing a collective understanding and phase of Thelema as the main philosophy/religion and interpretation of God, but was instead labeled as the wickedest man in the world and ostracized from everyone. Should refer back to the newspapers talking about him in NT20.

Makes sense, have we ever seen a Thelema Phase before this one tho? I interpreted it as IND because we knew it existed as phase in AC, meanwhile a Thelema Phase seems kinda new.

Does he even have access to the tools of the city that let him utilize IND?
Wouldn't CRC be exploding?

I think we have one other example of someone entering a Phase and it wasn't a magician, I don't think there's any way to confirm CRC would be exploding to begin with.

Unless I'm misreading the blogs, Coronzon scales to 3,500,000 m/s and Kanzaki scales to 11,880,495.1 m/s. That's not the same value. Coronzon has no other speed justification listed.

...

Yes, I can see these are not the same values, I am just surprised that they don't scale to the same value given Aleister's feats and statements scaling both feats around to other characters.

That goes directly to the things we need to CRT in the near future (please y'all, don't create a CRT rn to try to solve it as fast as possible).

Meaning Aleister's 2nd key scales three times higher than Coronzon and Aiwass, rendering the narration's implication of Aiwass and Coronzon's senses being superior pointless.

Ehhhh, not really, we still have to figure out where Aleister will scale without these amps to begin with.

In case you forgot, Aleister's 2nd key were an amp in particular to that singular body which is long dead by now, although the new amps aren't forbid from scaling to that same value (even moreso now that the problem of 2 different values having been raised), they're not scaling for free like, for example, Dragon Shell Touma scales to Base Touma.

 

[XDragnoir]

Accel's black wings can chop through space?

"That strike seemed to chop through space itself"

That's a simile, not a literal thing.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

...

Yes, I can see these are not the same values, I am just surprised that they don't scale to the same value given Aleister's feats and statements scaling both feats around to other characters.

That goes directly to the things we need to CRT in the near future (please y'all, don't create a CRT rn to try to solve it as fast as possible).

No promises.

Ehhhh, not really, we still have to figure out where Aleister will scale without these amps to begin with.

In case you forgot, Aleister's 2nd key were an amp in particular to that singular body which is long dead by now, although the new amps aren't forbid from scaling to that same value (even moreso now that the problem of 2 different values having been raised), they're not scaling for free like, for example, Dragon Shell Touma scales to Base Touma.

In regards to this, I've been thinking Aleister's second key should be tiered like this;

Unknown normally (Has never harmed/been harmed without her magic and has been portrayed as physically weaker than [[Kamijou Touma]]), Varies from Unknown to 9-B with Crowely Hazards (... Idk. I am not actually sure if they even harmed anybody on-screen as a majority of their appearances has them one-shotted, IIRC. I think one did harm Touma but I am not fully sure.), 6-B with Magic (Shouldn't be any weaker than before), higher with Blood Sacrifice (Vastly increased the power of his magic with the death of the Crowely Hazards)

... I am skipping ST and BR stuff cuz I am lazy but you get the idea, I suppose. Could be much better, tho.

 

[MeidoIzayoi]

question about Blasting Rod
anyone knows if it amps Aleister's speed as well?
considering with it, he blitzed Fiamma's HR automatic defense and fought the Magic Gods who were at least Sub-Rel speed compared to base Aleister's speed being at least Peak Human, possibly Subsonic speed

 

[XDragnoir]

No promises.

In regards to this, I've been thinking Aleister's second key should be tiered like this;

Unknown normally (Has never harmed/been harmed without her magic and has been portrayed as physically weaker than [[Kamijou Touma]]), Varies from Unknown to 9-B with Crowely Hazards (... Idk. I am not actually sure if they even harmed anybody on-screen as a majority of their appearances has them one-shotted, IIRC. I think one did harm Touma but I am not fully sure.), 6-B with Magic (Shouldn't be any weaker than before), higher with Blood Sacrifice (Vastly increased the power of his magic with the death of the Crowely Hazards)

... I am skipping ST and BR stuff cuz I am lazy but you get the idea, I suppose. Could be much better, tho.

What? Well, as a start, "normally" isn't really something we use around the wiki, at least I don't remember any other profile that uses that word (indeed, both "normally" and "same as before" are things I haven't really seen outside of a few Toaru profiles, we have to remove both eventually).

But I don't understand, why would his 2nd key be like that? Aleister's 2nd key is specifically for when Blood Sign is activated, which makes him physically 6B (and it doesn't have the Crowley Hazards, so like, why are they there?)

question about Blasting Rod
anyone knows if it amps Aleister's speed as well?
considering with it, he blitzed Fiamma's HR automatic defense and fought the Magic Gods who were at least Sub-Rel speed compared to base Aleister's speed being at least Peak Human, possibly Subsonic speed

I don't think it's ever stated + I don't recall Aleister having any speed spell other than Blood Sign, which would be needed to apply Blasting Rod to.

Heh, that's pretty strange, it clearly has the feats but there isn't really much that could explain said feats.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

What? Well, as a start, "normally" isn't really something we use around the wiki, at least I don't remember any other profile that uses that word (indeed, both "normally" and "same as before" are things I haven't really seen outside of a few Toaru profiles, we have to remove both eventually).

But I don't understand, why would his 2nd key be like that? Aleister's 2nd key is specifically for when Blood Sign is activated, which makes him physically 6B (and it doesn't have the Crowley Hazards, so like, why are they there?)

I am pretty sure that I seen normally thrown around a few things in profiles outside of ToAru for folks that have a temp amp that boost their stats. Doesn't really matter, tho.

Okay, what. I was 100% sure that his/her second key was just Aleis-tan in general before she got whatever realization she got before facing Mathers for the final time... This is probably a sign that his/her profile really needs a major rework, lel.

question about Blasting Rod
anyone knows if it amps Aleister's speed as well?
considering with it, he blitzed Fiamma's HR automatic defense and fought the Magic Gods who were at least Sub-Rel speed compared to base Aleister's speed being at least Peak Human, possibly Subsonic speed

Didn't Touma **** up Holy Right after negating it first before Aleister laid his hands on Fiamma? Like, IIRC, the text says, after Touma negated Holy Right after it was weakened by lots of factors, Fiamma lost the power that made him special and the man himself stated that he lost a lot of his abilities like his teleporation, so wouldn't the more logical thing to assume that instead of Aleister bypassing Holy Right's defense entirely, it just wasn't there at all?

Sure, he could still bring out his bird hand, but... Well, we never see Post-Touma Fiamma fight onscreen and the bits and pieces of his "fights" we do see onscreen shows that Holy Right is ****** and he primarily uses abilities that aren't related to Holy Right's power like Human magic.

 

[XDragnoir]

I am pretty sure that I seen normally thrown around a few things in profiles outside of ToAru for folks that have a temp amp that boost their stats. Doesn't really matter, tho.

I think the normally is at least interchangeable with "base" and "physically", I don't like it but it doesn't really raise any problems, but "same as before" is really lame and I haven't seen it around anywhere.

Okay, what. I was 100% sure that his/her second key was just Aleis-tan in general before she got whatever realization she got before facing Mathers for the final time... This is probably a sign that his/her profile really needs a major rework, lel.

The name of the key is quite literally Blood Sacrifice and it makes it clear (at least currently) that he is 6B physically while in that key.

Didn't Touma **** up Holy Right after negating it first before Aleister laid his hands on Fiamma? Like, IIRC, the text says, after Touma negated Holy Right after it was weakened by lots of factors, Fiamma lost the power that made him special and the man himself stated that he lost a lot of his abilities like his teleporation, so wouldn't the more logical thing to assume that instead of Aleister bypassing Holy Right's defense entirely, it just wasn't there at all?

Possibly, there should be a quick thread to discuss that as Aleister's profile currently says he can bypass defenses because of that attack against Fiamma.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

I think the normally is at least interchangeable with "base" and "physically", I don't like it but it doesn't really raise any problems, but "same as before" is really lame and I haven't seen it around anywhere.


The name of the key is quite literally Blood Sacrifice and it makes it clear (at least currently) that he is 6B physically while in that key.


Possibly, there should be a quick thread to discuss that as Aleister's profile currently says he can bypass defenses because of that attack against Fiamma.

Agreed on the "same as before" thing. Whichever one, base or physically, doesn't really matter tho.

But at the same time, Aleister also had a few Hazards remaining despite a large sum of 'em being used to amp her. Granted, this could all be fixed by merging all of the Aleis-tan keys together, so lel.

Yep, this is probably my cue to remove it.

 

[XDragnoir]

Where is the thread that was trying to add the soul attack thing and resistance to it for Coronzon, Mina and Samuel?

I am getting really tired of all these ******* thread that we do to update the ******* profiles simply dying because no one is actually interested in evaluating them, it's really tiresome.

 

[XDragnoir]

Agreed on the "same as before" thing. Whichever one, base or physically, doesn't really matter tho.

Yeah, both base and physically are the standard in the wiki.

But at the same time, Aleister also had a few Hazards remaining despite a large sum of 'em being used to amp her. Granted, this could all be fixed by merging all of the Aleis-tan keys together, so lel.

When he entered this "form" yes, but iirc at some point in NT21 it was stated when the last few Crowley Hazards died so like, I see no point for why include them when they are meant to be destroyed and it's better to have a key for Crowley at his strongest at the peak of Blood Sign than him at the beginning of it.

That is, I agree with merging the keys, but the way it is currently it would be pointless to add them IMO.