Time Paradox Immunity for all MCU Characters

[Sir_Ovens]

I'm surprised this wasn't brought up until now.

Basically, with the way time works in the MCU, killing a character in the past would only create a new timeline, not erase the character in the present. Therefore, all MCU characters should get TPI by default.

 

[Jinsye]

Ehm

How's that treated in VS Matches? Because that only really works within the rules of the MCU

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Verse equalization would take care of that.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I agree. Should be added.

 

[Elizhaa]

Is this about the MCU movie canon only which I would agree because I know the other MCU canons tends to be too different in details for even inverse scaling to accurate?

 

[Hykuu]

I feel like this is PIS into Hax tbh

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Is this about the MCU movie canon only which I would agree because I know the other MCU canons tends to be too different in details for even inverse scaling to accurate?

Yes, this would only affect the movie profiles.

 

[Elizhaa]

If it is about the MCU profiles only, I agree with the proposal.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I feel like this is PIS into Hax tbh

This is in no way PIS.

 

[Hykuu]

So they all had precautions about any sort of time paradoxes BEFORE The Ancient One explained the timeline shit but they had TPI? ok

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Banner explained to Scott and Rhodes about time shenanigins before he even met the Ancient One. So yes, TPI would still exist before Ancient One explained timeline splitting to the audience.

 

[Hykuu]

okay and they still had precautions since Bruce didn't know about the entire new timeline shit until the Ancient One explained it.

 

[The_Calaca]

I agree with this. Banner not knowing about this doesn't debunk the fact that they have TPI.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Isn't it because it is literally creating a new timeline where the character killed doesn't exist anymore? How does that affecr the timeline where they went back to the past?

I don't agree with it. Is basically the same thing as in DB, trunks goes back to the past and changes that timeline future but not his own future. Unless you want to give TPI to all of DB which is still a no no.

 

[Hykuu]

^^

btw there literally isn't any time paradox for them to be immune to basing off the Ancient One's explanation

 

[Sir_Ovens]

We literally have proof that characters have TPI in the form of Nebula, who game ended her past self but still continued living.

Any character with time travel who goes back into the past to kill an MCU character would just create a seperate timeline from the point of that character's death. So the fight would not conclude until they kill the present character.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Isn't it because it is literally creating a new timeline where the character killed doesn't exist anymore? How does that affecr the timeline where they went back to the past?
I don't agree with it. Is basically the same thing as in DB, trunks goes back to the past and changes that timeline future but not his own future. Unless you want to give TPI to all of DB which is still a no no.

Why shouldn't DB get TPI if that's how their verse works?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Because another universe where that Nebula doesn't exist anymore was created.

It is literally explained a new universe is created, no that they are inmune to the paradox.

 

[The_Impress]

Um, no, because that is literally changing how a character's ability (in this case Time Travel) works. Just because Hulk's time travel doesn't cause time paradoxes doesn't mean that any other character's time travel can't cause paradoxes, it's changing the fundamentals of their abilities. This isn't verse equalization, this is ability conversion.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

The paradox they are avoiding is the grandfather paradox. It literally can't function because of how the MCU works.

 

[The_Impress]

But that's not verse equalization. Souls don't exist in the Real World, doesn't mean that CH is solo'ing Undertale anytime soon. This is the exact opposite of verse equalization. Just because the Grandfather paradox doesn't exist in the MCU, doesn't mean it doesn't exist in other universes. It just means MCU characters can't create a Grandfather Paradox with their tech, while the opponent can

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

You cannot detach the framework of a character's universe from said character. The character is from a universe where killing their past self does not change their present self. Why should this aspect of the characters not be taken in consideration within battles?

 

[The_Calaca]

I argued this some time ago in a Funny Valentine vs some DB character, IIRC. Can't remember the exact details, but the multiverse theory is a b1*ch should be considered when dealing with timehax. Verse mechanics are usually considered like X verse having "Fire" Manipulation that has EE and Void Manipulation by nature. It makes sense outside of the verse? Nope, but the verse has that in its mechanics so it should be taken into account regardless of that.

 

[The_Impress]

Yes you can. That's literally the point of verse equalization. We are using the character's own capabilities, not what their verse's rules dictate as true. Again, by that logic, Soul Manipulation isn't valid in the Real World, and Composite Human solos 90% of Undertale. Adjusting the framework to reach a neutral ground of consistency is literally the entire point of this wiki.

If that is the case, it implies MCU characters can't do that, it doesn't mean other characters can't. That is then removing aspects of their world.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Seeing as paradoxing the character requires you to enter their verse's timeline to attempt it, said timeline's mechanics should take precedence.

 

[The_Calaca]

Detaching the character from their verse rules would take away fundamental things.

Ki exists in Dragon Ball verse. If you detach Goku's bond with his universe he will be Saiyan no more nor he will have Ki anymore.

Don't pull strawman using CH and UT. CH had its own discussion about soulhax in the past.

 

[The_Impress]

But that isn't logical. If there isn't magic in a verse, and it has been repeatedly shown that, does that give every character in it Magical immunity? Does the force only work on characters from Star Wars? If souls aren't in the verse, that doesn't give them immunity to soul manip or hellfire. DBZ characters aren't losing track of characters in vs battle threads because they don't have ki. All of these are changing the verse mechanics.

Similiarly, if the MCU doesn't have a grandfather paradox, that shouldn't give them immunity to it. It is another supernatural element that is present in another verse, and would be equalized as such in the MCU during Vs. Battles.

Now, unless they literally have Acausality, that would be fine, but they don't, it's just using advantage of a verse equalization argument that had been dealt with in the past, but like, the sillier version of it

 

[Hykuu]

"

Ki exists in Dragon Ball verse. If you detach Goku's bond with his universe he will be Saiyan no more nor he will have Ki anymore."

Ki is internal within characters like Goku, time travel functions are external to the character and more so apply to the verse's mechanics rather than the characters themselves.

 

[The_Calaca]

It's not the same, because in this verse we can see that the multiverse theory works and as such should be treated as such. It's not something that hasn't been stated and we're just giving resistances because X power doesn't exist in the verse.

Verses where characters are stated to lack souls have immunity to soulhax tho.

If a verse doesn't show the multiverse theory as a working mechanic, we don't assume it has it. This case it's literally explained as such, and we should take it into consideration because of it. You're comparing it to a case where it's not stated, but it's wrong because we can even see it work despite some inconsistent BS.

 

[The_Calaca]

@Hykuu

Ki was an example, but it's still part of the DB verse.

Characters with different timelines versions have met before in the DB verse and no paradox has ocurred despite of it.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Anonymous Blank's argument is the best one here. If a character tries to time paradox MCU character, they would have to time travel into the MCU multiverse, and then the rules of the verse will apply and prevent said paradox from happening.

 

[Hykuu]

@The Calaca

Yeah I am aware, but my point is that even if it is a verse mechanic, it is external to the characters themselves.

We aren't going to give every single DC superhero High 1B Reality Warping due to dreaming now, right?

Grats? Not really relevant to the point

 

[The_Calaca]

Dunno about DC stuff, but context is important. If the verse mechanics makes them unable to get affected by time paradoxes, it should be taken into account.

Verse mechanics can offer natural energy external to the characters, and if you detach them from their verses, they have no access to their energy. It's exactly the same.

 

[Newendigo]

Most, if not all of the versus matches take place in a neutral universe by default, unless stated by the OP.

I think way to answer this, is whether or not in this neutral universe the Grandfather paradox abides.

 

[The_Impress]

Actually yeah, by that logic every Marvel Comics mainstream character should get Plot Manipulation, Immortality and a ton of other hax due to Gwenpool's and others storyline, and every character in Undertale be a 10-C due to its metaversal properties, same going for every meta series.

This is applying the verse's properties to the characters who may have different hax. Verse Equalization should be removing these restrcitions, not adding onto them. This is the characters countering abilities without anything to back it up. A verse with characters without souls is still the character's property, the TPI is the verse's property. Verse Equalization literally puts them in a neutral verse, so that restriction shouldn't exist

 

[The_Calaca]

> A verse with characters without souls is still the character's property, this is the verse's property

Love how you say that it's the verse that has characters without souls yet you attribute that to the characters like they have anything to do with that.

Verse equalization doesn't matter here. I'm not talking about versus matchups. I'm talking about what the profiles should reflect, and if the MCU verse has the multiverse theory rather than the granddaddy theory as a working mechanic, then its implications should be considered in the profiles because that's how the verse works. We take verse mechanics into account with every energy system because they belong to their own verses and wouldn't exist outside of them.

 

[Hykuu]

The profiles reflect what is used in versus matchups, dude

 

[The_Calaca]

>Non combat applicable abilities added to profiles exists

Sure.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Most, if not all of the versus matches take place in a neutral universe by default, unless stated by the OP.

I think way to answer this, is whether or not in this neutral universe the Grandfather paradox abides.

What does a neutral universe have to do with anything? The moment you try and paradox the character in their past, its not neutral ground anymore because you have to be in their universe to attempt it.

 

[Ionliosite]

Unless Dragon Ball is also getting TPI due to the already adressed reasons, I disagree with the addition.