Tier Low 6-B Tournament of Regeneration 2022: Licht vs Yu Kanda

[AnonymousBlank]

Why do the speed amps been countered?

Why are you asking if we want to change our votes if you are simply going to disagree unless we agree with you? I don’t think they have been countered or else I wouldn’t maintain my vote.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Why are you asking if we want to change our votes if you are simply going to disagree unless we agree with you? I don’t think they have been countered or else I wouldn’t maintain my vote.

Why do you disagree tho

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Why do you disagree tho

Because a lot of your counter argument doesn’t actually counter anything.

First of all let’s talk about how Yu’s illusion levels aren’t as crazy as they seem. The levels are only capable of boosting speed and power not durability, because Boric could still damage him even when Yu is at level 3, Secondly, Level 2 was enough to harm boric, the damage Yu did on Boris looks notable. No, it was not a scratch and it was not a dent, it was a significant damage that even Yu himself noted that he was hurt. However Yu was able to slice through him at level 3. So the gap between 2 and 3 is a little bit smaller than what you guys make it seem in the previous thread because Yu could already damage him at level 2. The same can be inferred for level 3 to 4 and 4 to 5. Now let’s talk about the annoying speed amp. Alma was comparable to 3, got caught as soon as Yu switched to 4, Alma got up, got stronger without any indication of a speed amp of his own but Alma is still comparable to Yu amp 4, and still tagged 5. Next, Boric who claims Yu is faster at 2 could STILL see a blurry Yu at 3. Even if you disregard the blurry aspect. Boric was SLOWER than Yu at 2 already. So the speed amp gap isn’t as big as you guys make it seem. Alma can match Yu’s speed, Yu was already faster than Boric to in the first place.

The dura part doesn’t matter and the speed stuff isn’t even contesting the speed difference between base and Level 3 which is what Yu’s argument hinges on.

Negative mana compared to Yu’s amps

We look at magic power stages, the smaller the number, the bigger the magic power. Using negative mana allowed Nero to go from a weak stage 6 mage to a magic power high enough to deal with a Devil (stage 1/0). Forbidden magic/ negative mana amp should cover the gap between 3, 4 and 5. Because negative mana boosts so much that it covers 5/6 levels of magic power. Licht still has access the power from the underworld because he can destroy an entity which swallows all magic from the main world.

Tells us nothing besides he can become much stronger to an unquantifiable degree. Nothing about speed.

Reinforcement magic compared to Yu

Reinforcement magic allows for magic that’s “extremely slow” to be boosted to match FTL attacks. Reinforcement magic also allowed Nozel to get up from being stabbed straight through with three swords and was STILL fighting effectively as though he was never stabbed in the first place. By itself this should put reinforcement magic on just one level gap of Yu’s amps. However, with negative mana enhancement, Licht’s reinforcement magic amp raises extremely, surpassing ALL of Yu’s amps. Another advantage of reinforcement magic is that it amps all stats, not just AP and speed.

The extremely slow is subjective. Unless you can give a stated speed for that slow attack and a statement or showing that it became much faster, it really doesn’t factor in much, if at all.

How fast does Licht use his Amp?

Negative mana is ever present, all Licht just needs to do is cast Reinforcement magic which is thought based, so activation speed is comparable to Yu’s.

That’s fine. Can you prove he will start with this?

Conclusion

After so much research, I’ve gotten forbidden magic/negative mana amp several levels higher than Yu’s amps. And I have cleared the misconception of Yu’s amps being “massive” and a “speed blitz, one shot” of some sorts. Thank you for your patience everyone. @Decieved I hope I have been able to convince you. All of you.


Licht FRA

Welp, you know my stance on this conclusion as of now.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Because a lot of your counter argument doesn’t actually counter anything

Did you see the question Decieved asked of me?

he said none of what I countered actually matters until I compare Yu amp to Licht’s

 

[Arnoldstone18]

The dura part doesn’t matter and the speed stuff isn’t even contesting the speed difference between base and Level 3 which is what Yu’s argument hinges on

Yeah, I know, it was in response to Decieved

Tells us nothing besides he can become much stronger to an unquantifiable degree. Nothing about speed.

Yeah, I know,

the speed part however, negative mana enhances reinforcement magic. Negative mana on its own enhanced Patri speed when he became a dark elf.

Edit: lol I pressed send by accident before responding to everything

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Because a lot of your counter argument doesn’t actually counter anything.

Read what Decieved said I should answer

The “counter” is actually a response to theee questions

Prove the both reinforcement magic and negative mana (which Licht doesn't have since he hasn't been corrupted by a devil at the current moment like Patry was) provides a comparable amp to Yu Kanda's Level 3 and above illusions.

Also prove that it posses a comparable activation speed as Yu Kanda's Level 3 and above illusions (which are thought-based)

It could be comparable in-terms of its amp but if it doesn't have a comparable activation speed than it's useless since Yu Kanda would just speed blitz and one shot Licht before he could activate his own amps.

None of this matters until you can prove that both provided a comparable amp to Yu Kanda's Level 3 and above illusions.

Samething as i stated above.

Edit: After you have read that, go to where he tagged my counters and said none of that matters until I do this.

Now that I have done it, just read my counters again, how I used all of Licht’s abilities with the knowledge of what Decieved asked me to prove.

 

[LordGinSama]

Why do the speed amps been countered?

Can you seriously ******* quit blatantly trying to make people change their votes? It's honestly ludicrous.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

That’s fine. Can you prove he will start with this?

Lol, using reinforcement magic is a very casual occurrence in black clover, even more so when they realize the enemy is fast. Since Yu clearly doesn’t start in Level 3 or higher. It’s obvious Licht will know he is fast in Level 2 and act accordingly.
They are 40m apart, a level 2 amp will not blitz him.

Normally, it is a very likely occurrence, and guaranteed if Yu is noticeably fast

Lol I forgot to hit send

 

[Gumball_Ushiromiya]

Was following
But I'll have to vote for Licht here till I'm convinced otherwise

 

[speedster352]

Backstory of this match: This all started back when Arnold was dumped by LordGin after an intense argument Arnold now looks to "make things right" after the initial break up with LordGin cause he wanted Arnold to get into D.Gray man verse which he still refuses to till this day for his extreme hatred for speed amp users....

3 votes for licht

 

[Arnoldstone18]

During my research I noticed Yu Kanda never jumps levels… He always starts from the bottom to the top

so what is stopping Licht from speed blitzing him at level 2?

or has he jumped levels before?

 

[DemonicDude]

Votes
Yu Kanda: 8 (Deceived, DD, Popted2, King, Anonymous, Nel, Veloxt, LordGin)

Licht: 3 (Arnold, Speedster, Gumbal)

 

[LordGinSama]

Yu FRA.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Yeah, I know, it was in response to Decieved


Yeah, I know,

the speed part however, negative mana enhances reinforcement magic. Negative mana on its own enhanced Patri speed when he became a dark elf.

Edit: lol I pressed send by accident before responding to everything

Now you know how I feel lmao

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Votes
Yu Kanda: 7 (Deceived, DD, Popted2, King, Anonymous, DemonicDude, Nel)

Licht: 4 (Arnold, Speedster, Gumball LordGin)

Wait no, Gin voted Yu

 

[DemonicDude]

Oh my bad let me correct this

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Also you forgot my vote as well lel

 

[DemonicDude]

During my research I noticed Yu Kanda never jumps levels… He always starts from the bottom to the top

so what is stopping Licht from speed blitzing him at level 2?

or has he jumped levels before?

I want the answer to this.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Yu FRA.

What haven’t I convinced you on?

don’t forget, that wasn’t a counter but a response to @Deceived questions. here

the counters are everything I’ve been saying below.

The following enhanced by negative mana + reinforcement magic:

Flight and teleportation gives Licht higher maneuverability even without Licht stat ampDanmaku practically cant be dodged, Yu has no danmaku dodging or countering feats. stealth mastery and resistance to ESP and Precognition makes Licht very hard to detect.

Also you forgot my vote as well lel

you too how may I change your mind? Why do you disagree? Not enough examples? I have many more.

 

[Arkenis]

I want the answer to this.

He jumped to lvl 3 against alma

 

[speedster352]

What haven’t I convinced you on?

don’t forget, that wasn’t a counter but a response to @Deceived questions. here

the counters are everything I’ve been saying below.

The following enhanced by negative mana + reinforcement magic:

Flight and teleportation gives Licht higher maneuverability even without Licht stat ampDanmaku practically cant be dodged, Yu has no danmaku dodging or countering feats. stealth mastery and resistance to ESP and Precognition makes Licht very hard to detect.




you too how may I change your mind? Why do you disagree? Not enough examples? I have many more.

Get the BC supporters

 

[Arkenis]

Base

lvl 3

lvl 4

same chapter 195

 

[The_Alxhemist]

Following

After reading through the thread, I'm more inclined to vote for Licht.

The counter arguments from Arnoldstone and Speedster (ramblings) are pretty solid to me.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Base

lvl 3

lvl 4

same chapter 195

So in base he could dodge Alma’s attack, Alma reacted to him in the next page.
forced him to go level 4, got slashed, Alma got up, tagged him multiple times

This speed amp… doesn’t look impressive, to me at least,

I will send the panels here

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Seems like only about 4 people looked at my scans
For this

This is Alma reacting to level 3.. TWICE.

 

[Arkenis]

So in base he could dodge Alma’s attack, Alma reacted to him in the next page.
forced him to go level 4, got slashed, Alma got up, tagged him multiple times

This speed amp… doesn’t look impressive, to me at least,

I will send the panels here

Doesn't matter. Alma is being amped as well.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

3

This happened after Alma reacted to 3 twice. Now he is in 4 right?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Doesn't matter. Alma is being amped as well.

was it stated Alma amped his speed?

 

[Arkenis]

This is actually just a bad argument, You looked at the pages and just ignored Alma growing more by his hate.

 

[Arkenis]

was it stated Alma amped his speed?

Why does it need to be stated if its shown?

So in base he could dodge Alma’s attack, Alma reacted to him in the next page.
forced him to go level 4, got slashed, Alma got up, tagged him multiple times

This speed amp… doesn’t look impressive, to me at least,

I will send the panels here

Argument assumes Alma isn't faster than his own attack? Or am I reading this wrong?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Argument assumes Alma isn't faster than his own attack? Or am I reading this wrong?

Normal attacks like what? The same beam he used to tag 4 to rip his arm off or 5 to rip a section of his torso? The electricity he used to tag 4?

wdym?

Why does it need to be stated if its shown?

Where was it shown?

You mean the feat in the response it took hours to type? The response that acknowledged there is an amp… I even sent scans of it only referring to power. Nothing about speed was stated (if there is let me know). Alma can clearly match these speed amps. Alma is comparable to Yu since they can react to each other. This means that the speed amp is not vast, it’s merely a regular boost. Boric is slower than Yu in 2 (or if that was base Yu, be my guest and show us because that makes thing a hell of a lot worse)

The adjectives used to describe these amps are exaggerating. They are unquantifiable and frankly, unimpressive. Negative mana amped reinforcement magic negates all of these amps altogether.

 

[LordGinSama]

why is this guy trying to get people to change their votes like a Jehovah witness asking if you'd like to join their religion at 7 AM.

 

[Arkenis]

Normal attacks like what? The same beam he used to tag 4 to rip his arm off or 5 to rip a section of his torso? The electricity he used to tag 4?

I'm asking if you're assuming Alma can't be faster than his beam attack. Which is shown he is.

Where was it shown?

It's shown that Alma can react to lvl 3, gets blitzed by lvl 4, then is able to attack lvl 4, Alma is stated that hate amps him, Conclusion: He got a hate amp.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I'm asking if you're assuming Alma can't be faster than his beam attack. Which is shown he is.

I dont think so

he was slashed at level 4 and the beams tagged Yu at level 4

right?

hate amps him

I addressed this in my response

he referred to his power, not speed.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

why is this guy trying to get people to change their votes like a Jehovah witness asking if you'd like to join their religion at 7 AM.

Bro?

what are you talking about?

 

[LordGinSama]

Bro?

what are you talking about?

You with the "Have I not convinced you?" comments.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

You with the "Have I not convinced you?" comments.

But it’s true… I sent a long ass rebuttal and the response is “nah not convinced, Yu FRA”

when I checked Imgur, only 3-4 people actually checked my scans and I’m one of them .

I asked why, the point repeats what I have already addressed . So i have to explain all over again, or I cluster the thread with “read here” “read this post”

 

[Arkenis]

I mean my whole thing is Yu's amps blitz people, Lichts don't blitz people (unless im missing something), Then there's the whole innocence can't be absorbed or negated by Lichts attacks. And all Yu needs is one hit to trigger his explosions and Lichts getting ******.

 

[speedster352]

I mean my whole thing is Yu's amps blitz people, Lichts don't blitz people (unless im missing something), Then there's the whole innocence can't be absorbed or negated by Lichts attacks. And all Yu needs is one hit to trigger his explosions and Lichts getting ******.

We been trough this many times many people agree that they can equalized with VE

 

[Arkenis]

We been trough this many times many people agree that they can equalized with VE

They don't lol. you counted like 5 people and then Nirre said he didn't agree so that became four. and ofc me, gin, and deceived disagreed, and someone else as well. So no not "many". And I think we explained Innocence pretty good to show how different it is compared to Mana.