Tier 9-B Enter the Octagon Tournament: Rachel Lindt vs Licorne

[Eden_Warlock99]

Licorne FRA

 

[Pikaman]

Is it not 4-0 Licorne? OP has 3-0 I think it missed my vote

 

[Pikaman]

Is it not 4-0 Licorne? OP has 3-0 I think it missed my vote

Make that 5-0 lol

 

[DontTalkDT]

I'm gonna wait for a Rachel argument before voting.

One thing to possibly address: Could the dog transformation thing prevent the poison? Especially since the actual dogs exist in some sub-part of the transformed ones apparently.
Does Licorne even have enough poison for all dogs? (How many dogs are we even talking about?)

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Does Licorne even have enough poison for all dogs? (How many dogs are we even talking about?)

Rachel has 2 dogs.

 

[Pikaman]

One thing to possibly address: Could the dog transformation thing prevent the poison?

It says that the dogs have regen through transforming back, but then they’re just fodder dogs lmao, it’s out of the frying pan into the fire

 

[DontTalkDT]

It says that the dogs have regen through transforming back, but then they’re just fodder dogs lmao, it’s out of the frying pan into the fire

Could they transform back and then... transform again?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Does Licorne even have enough poison for all dogs?

The poison in Licorne's Tie knocked Tsurugi Hitomoshi unconscious and paralyzed him for a short while (According to Licorne, If Tsurugi's body wasn't so strong it would have killed him)
Licorne also carries a spare tie (Which also has poison) with him in his vest pocket

 

[Pikaman]

Could they transform back and then... transform again?

Maybe....? Even if they could it leaves them vulnerable for a limited period of time and Licorne is more than skilled enough to capitalise on that

 

[Pikaman]

Also all of this assumes the regen covers for poison, which isn’t a guarantee

 

[Peppersalt43]

Are you ******* serious?! I just woke up and you all ******* started making assumptions and votes without any input? Please retract your votes before I give my input

I currently still have work before being able to get back

 

[Pikaman]

Are you ******* serious?! I just woke up and you all ******* started making assumptions and votes without any input? Please retract your votes before I give my input

I currently still have work before being able to get back

Dude, we didn’t exactly make assumptions about anything in particular, voting happens whenever it happens

Also, grace exists for a reason. You’ll have time to convince people to retract/change votes when you make your arguments, but for now we don’t owe you rescinding votes.

 

[Pikaman]

Tommy Jarvis literally lost his match without his rep saying a word in the thread, people can make their minds up conclusively based on their own research of the characters, it’s not a debate between 2 people only just because it’s a tournament match and the characters have reps

 

[Peppersalt43]

voting happens whenever it happens

No that's called an FRA train and nobody likes that

Anyway I should probably explain how her stat amps work on dogs. Basically besides altering their size, she can alter their stats, changing their strength for their speed for example, making them much faster while weakening them or in reverse, making them much more durable while making them slower. She was able to use this technique to catch many of the geniuses of her verse off-guard

Since there are two dogs, it's very likely she can just increase the durability of 1 greatly while allowing the other to essentially be fast enough to almost blitz her opponent. Since Licorne wields a knife, he may find it hard to pierce through tougher armored opponents while also being something that can be stolen

Another thing to note is that the mutated dogs aren't actually the ones fighting and is basically a flesh mech. If she sees one getting poisoned, she can turn it back to normal to avoid it affecting the actual dog or at least use that trick to keep the other one safe

Licorne also carries a spare tie (Which also has poison) with him in his vest pocket

How does he poison someone with a tie?

Now watch as everyone mindlessly vote Licorne

 

[DemonicDude]

Now watch as everyone mindlessly vote Licorne

I'm gonna force them to respond them to everything you wrote, don't worry I got you covered.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Anyway I should probably explain how her stat amps work on dogs. Basically besides altering their size, she can alter their stats, changing their strength for their speed for example, making them much faster while weakening them or in reverse, making them much more durable while making them slower. She was able to use this technique to catch many of the geniuses of her verse off-guard

How big is the speed or durability amp? How weak do the dogs become if she sacrifices their strength for speed?

Since Licorne wields a knife, he may find it hard to pierce through tougher armored opponents while also being something that can be stolen

Even if the dogs somehow steal Lico's knife, Lico still has his hammer which is made of carbon steel, and the poison-coated wire inside his tie (All of which he has a copy of)

How does he poison someone with a tie?

His tie has a poison-coated wire inside it. The more power the opponent puts into escaping, the more the wire will eat into them

Also the transform/detransform leaves them vulnerable for a limited period of time, and with Lico's speed which already blitzes her (The speed gets equalized to the dogs since they're the ones fighting), I don't see him not capitalising on that (Lico has no problem crippling or even killing his opponent btw)

 

[Peppersalt43]

(The speed gets equalized to the dogs since they're the ones fighting), I don't see him not capitalising on that (Lico has no problem crippling or even killing his opponent btw)

Wait what, have you ever seen a Jotaro a thread? Speed equalized only applies to the summoner and not the summon

I'll respond to everything later but for now, I'm pretty sure that's how speed equalized works on this

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Wait what, have you ever seen a Jotaro a thread? Speed equalized only applies to the summoner and not the summon?

Rachel seems to be more like Pokemon Trainers than Stand users, and I remember Speed gets equalized to the pokemon and not the trainer in those battles

 

[Peppersalt43]

How big is the speed or durability amp? How weak do the dogs become if she sacrifices their strength for speed?

So essentially the way the amps work is that she can increase or reduce the amount of mass (Either muscle or armor) on her dogs which in turn weighs them down. So while she can send them unprotected, allowing for greater agility and speed, she can also grant them greater armor. In these 2 cases, they were able to either outpace faster opponents or no-sell attacks that regularly harm them

Even if the dogs somehow steal Lico's knife, Lico still has his hammer which is made of carbon steel, and the poison-coated wire inside his tie (All of which he has a copy of)

I don't get how having a strong melee weapon helps

And the poison wire can be negated due to the many layers of armor he has to get through to reach the skin if he goes for the durable dog

with Lico's speed which already blitzes her (The speed gets equalized to the dogs since they're the ones fighting), I don't see him not capitalising on that (Lico has no problem crippling or even killing his opponent btw)

I mean, it's very likely Rachel would use one of her dogs to get her to safety before the fight and then immediately getting back. She's usually observing from afar in most fights

 

[Pikaman]

So, to overview the situation, Licorne would be capable of poisoning the agile dog, but not so much with the heavier one? However, the armoured dog would be slower in return, and with speed equalised rules, Licorne would outpace it, if amping the dogs speed allow it to outpace openers previously faster than it, then surely the opposite using the same method would allow Licorne to simply outrace it.

How is a match treated in terms of a situation where Rachel herself is dead/incapacitated, but she still has dogs able to fight? Are they capable of performing on their own command or staying transformed? Normally we do not allow summons to win matches for dead/incap’ed masters no? Unless I’m remembering that last bit wrong, I haven’t done a lot of matches with summons

 

[Pikaman]

don't get how having a strong melee weapon helps

Well I mean, to bash the dogs brains in I assume

 

[Peppersalt43]

outpace openers previously faster than it, then surely the opposite using the same method would allow Licorne to simply outrace it.

Yeah but as explained above, his wire doesn't exactly work on the armored one and there's a good chance the fast one can steal his knife. Now all he has is a hammer

How is a match treated in terms of a situation where Rachel herself is dead/incapacitated, but she still has dogs able to fight?

Her dogs turn back to normal if that happens but that usually doesn't since her fast one usually brings her to safety before the fight

 

[Pikaman]

Would Licorne, being the strategic genius he is, not be capable of poisoning the agile dog, evading the heavy one, running to Rachel, beating her with relative ease, and then making quick work of the (not any more) armoured dog? He has a method to take out one dog, and from there Rachel. Which you yourself have admitted to be enough to all but win the match

 

[Peppersalt43]

Would Licorne, being the strategic genius he is, not be capable of poisoning the agile dog, evading the heavy one, running to Rachel, beating her with relative ease

Uh, you didn't read this part?

I mean, it's very likely Rachel would use one of her dogs to get her to safety before the fight and then immediately getting back. She's usually observing from afar in most fights

That's the first thing she'll do, on a minion that is faster than him

 

[Pikaman]

I mean, it's very likely Rachel would use one of her dogs to get her to safety before the fight and then immediately getting back. She's usually observing from afar in most fights

wait I’m so stupid I just realised she can’t even do that here this match takes place in a UFC ARENA

The absolute furthest she can get from Licorne is a few metres lmao. He just poisons the quick dog runs to her, kills her, armoured dog transforms back, he kills it, gg

*kill can be swapped with incap here

 

[Psychomaster35]

Licorne FRA

 

[Pikaman]

That’s 6-0 Licorne as it stands

 

[Peppersalt43]

wait I’m so stupid I just realised she can’t even do that here this match takes place in a UFC ARENA

Wait what, can't you just jump over the thing? It is in a building after all

 

[Apeironaxim]

Pretty sure Rachel's dogs get up to the size of vans at the very least. Where exactly is Licorne gonna run and dodge when the arena is literally filled with dog

 

[Pikaman]

Wait what, can't you just jump over the thing? It is in a building after all

Tournament rules say that leaving the octagon is strictly prohibited and will result in a loss, so normally you could yes, but here it’s externally enforced you can’t

 

[Pikaman]

Pretty sure Rachel's dogs get up to the size of vans at the very least. Where exactly is Licorne gonna run and dodge when the arena is literally filled with dog

I mean at that size do they not just crush everyone and nobody wins

 

[Apeironaxim]

I mean at that size do they not just crush everyone and nobody wins

what

Are you like
assuming her dogs spawn on top of her

 

[Pikaman]

Oh sorry I forgot only one will be van sized, still, he should still be able to get to Rachel once he pacifies the agile one, he holds the speed advantage over the armoured dog and will make very quick work of Rachel

 

[Apeironaxim]

The flesh that's outside the center of the sack where the actual dog is is dead flesh. Idk what poisoning dead flesh is supposed to do

 

[Pikaman]

The flesh that's outside the center of the sack where the actual dog is is dead flesh. Idk what poisoning dead flesh is supposed to do

That’s the armoured dog no? We’re not proposing Licorne can poison it, just the agile, smol one

 

[Apeironaxim]

No, it's literally how her power works. When she transforms a dog, it's in a sack in the center and the grown flesh from outside the center and such is dead

“When we were hanging out with Panacea during the Slaughterhouse Nine fiasco, she put her hand on Sirius,” Tattletale said. “And she said that the tissues die as they get pushed out from the center. They’re more like super zombie dogs, really, with a juicy, living center.”

 

[Pikaman]

But isn’t the whole point of the quicker dog that it doesn’t have its super mass or anything in exchange for its speed and agility? Thus not the armour (at least not enough of it to protect from the wire)

 

[Peppersalt43]

Tournament rules say that leaving the octagon is strictly prohibited and will result in a loss, so normally you could yes, but here it’s externally enforced you can’t

Is that allowed?

 

[Apeironaxim]

Rachel can empower her dogs to where they're up to 3000+ pounds in size. Even with half of that, i'm not seeing a tie/wire getting through that much flesh

 

[Pikaman]

Is that allowed?

....yes? Have you seen some of the matches that get added lol, the condition of a very set and small area to fight in is nothing