Tier 9-B Enter the Octagon Tournament: Rachel Lindt vs Licorne

[Pikaman]

Rachel can empower her dogs to where they're up to 3000+ pounds in size. Even with half of that, i'm not seeing a tie/wire getting through that much flesh

You say up to, which implies that she can keep it at a lower level, not only would she likely do this due to the confined space, but she would have to in order to have an agile dog

 

[Apeironaxim]

You say up to, which implies that she can keep it at a lower level, not only would she likely do this due to the confined space, but she would have to in order to have an agile dog

Considering her larger dogs can still outpace cars, i don't consider this as being a valid argument. Even when huge, they're fast

 

[Pikaman]

Considering her larger dogs can still outpace cars, i don't consider this as being a valid argument. Even when huge, they're fast

Yeah but speed is equalised on her dogs, which means that the only way to be faster than Licorne is through amps such as sacrificing mass and thus an inability to be poisoned.

 

[Apeironaxim]

No? it'd be equalized to Rachel's combat speed pretty sure. Her dogs are still going to be proportionally faster than her

 

[Apeironaxim]

Yeah but speed is equalised on her dogs, which means that the only way to be faster than Licorne is through amps such as sacrificing mass and thus an inability to be poisoned.

Also big disagree. Prove that he's able to poison dead flesh, or even able to get through 500 pounds of 9-B flesh. You keep insisting that smaller dogs mean instant poisoning, but i don't think you're actually thinking about what the dogs actually are

 

[Pikaman]

No? it'd be equalized to Rachel's combat speed pretty sure. Her dogs are still going to be proportionally faster than her

It would scale to the dogs speed in the same way Pokémon trainers speed is equalised to Pokémon no? Also wouldn’t the dogs just blitz everyone if what you suggested was true

 

[Apeironaxim]

It would scale to the dogs speed in the same way Pokémon trainers speed is equalised to Pokémon no? Also wouldn’t the dogs just blitz everyone if what you suggested was true

What do you mean. Pokemon trainers reaction speed literally scales to Pokemon speed, there's no equalizing going on. And yes, that's the point and advantage of having giant dog minions, that they're empowered animals and can run down people fast af. Grizzly bears can literally run at 35 mph. And even then, it would be a blitz in close quarters only. You're not completely blitzed by a car going 70 mph if it's driving toward you from hundreds of feet away, distance matters with speed.

 

[Pikaman]

And even then, it would be a blitz in close quarters only.

This is a close quarters tournament, in close quarters settings, where two opponents can never be more than a handful of metres away from each other, if the dogs are capable of blitzing everyone in this situation then they would not be allowed in the tournament...

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Yeah, in the location the fighters are in, it's going to be hard to blitz the opponent here. Sooner or later, they're going to get caught.

 

[Apeironaxim]

I mean if you want to ban literally anyone with something that gives them attack speed even moderately above their own speed, that's your decision.

 

[DemonicDude]

It's not ban the argument is that they are gonna get caught due to the size of the battlefield

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I mean if you want to ban literally anyone with something that gives them attack speed even moderately above their own speed, that's your decision.

Wait, we're banning them? Since when?

I think the argument was that it wouldn't be easy to blitz someone in a location like this.

 

[Apeironaxim]

Also not exactly my fault that the arena is like 9 meters big and Rachel's power involves her making van sized minions that can outpace cars to fight for her. Saying "But they'll easily catch her opponents" isn't an argument when it's brought on by the arena chosen

 

[Pikaman]

Rachel seems to be more like Pokemon Trainers than Stand users, and I remember Speed gets equalized to the pokemon and not the trainer in those battles

I was just using this for speed equalisation, if Rachel’s ability is basically to amp 2 summons beyond where they can feasibly be fought by anyone…

I’m assuming that isn’t the case though, right?

 

[Apeironaxim]

She empowers dogs to grow into the monster dogs, making them stronger, more durable, and faster

 

[Pikaman]

Also, this whole time we’ve been arguing Licorne vs Dogs as if Licorne isn’t more than smart enough to deduce the domino effect that would occur if he managed to beat Rachel. Heck, Rachel’s profile states that the dogs need her command to actually do anything, so if she got caught in a fight against Licorne, she’s pre-occupied and can’t do that. Normally this wouldn’t be an issue for her because of the aforementioned strategy of having her agile dog carry her to safety (I guess this is why she does it) but that strategy does not apply here since we’re penned into a small space

 

[Pikaman]

She empowers dogs to grow into the monster dogs, making them stronger, more durable, and faster

By what kind of multipliers? Or just a general vague factor if the former isn’t possible

This feels so weird this debate has been so long and now we’ve come full circle to asking how the abilities even work lmao

 

[Pikaman]

Honestly idk if there is any 9-B Pokémon trainers but if there were them v Rachel would be an awesome matchup lol

 

[Apeironaxim]

She can control the speed of it, with doing it faster meaning she gets more tired out, but that isn't too much of a factor considering this isn't gonna be a drawn out fight. She can also just hide behind/have one of the dogs guard her. She made them grow an entire foot in an instant at one point, and was able to make one big enough to ride on by the time she was going around a corner, which shouldn't be a long timeframe. Even without Rachel holding the transformation, it takes a whole 15 mins for it to wear off. So even if he got to her, that's 15 whole minutes of dealing with murderous angry dogs

 

[DemonicDude]

I'm switching my vote to Rachel

 

[Pikaman]

Even without Rachel holding the transformation, it takes a whole 15 mins for it to wear off. So even if he got to her, that's 15 whole minutes of dealing with murderous angry dogs

Scans?

 

[Pikaman]

Also again, the dogs depend on her command, so they will not be doing anything to Licorne once she’s out of the picture

 

[Apeironaxim]

“Time?” She asked.

I found my cell phone, fumbled with it to press a button and display the time. “Nine minutes past eleven.”

“We’ll give it fifteen minutes,” she reached for the chain and held it. “Takes about that long for it to wear off.”

“Okay.”

 

[Apeironaxim]

Also again, the dogs depend on her command, so they will not be doing anything to Licorne once she’s out of the picture

No? She needs commands to properly guide them, as they're aggressive dogs. They can still do shit without her command. Idk why you think they're literally incapable of movement or thought without her command

 

[Pikaman]

Btw will both dogs... even fit in the octagon lmao, they’re getting hyped up as some really gigantic creatures that can make quick work of most humans around their strength level (which I don’t like the sound of tbh) but will 2 even fit in such a confined space?

 

[Pikaman]

Thx for the scan

 

[Pikaman]

No? She needs commands to properly guide them, as they're aggressive dogs. They can still do shit without her command. Idk why you think they're literally incapable of movement or thought without her command

Ahh sorry I misinterpreted the weakness part of her profile

 

[Apeironaxim]

Btw will both dogs... even fit in the octagon lmao, they’re getting hyped up as some really gigantic creatures that can make quick work of most humans around their strength level (which I don’t like the sound of tbh) but will 2 even fit in such a confined space?

The average length of a van varies between 3-6 meters from a quick search, with cars seemingly being around ~4 meters. So they'll grow relatively quickly into 3+ meter 9-B monsters, which makes dodging and running pretty hard I would assume

 

[Pikaman]

The average length of a van varies between 3-6 meters from a quick search, with cars seemingly being around ~4 meters. So they'll grow relatively quickly into 3+ meter 9-B monsters, which makes dodging and running pretty hard I would assume

Should the dogs not have Large Size type 0 on their profile then?

 

[Apeironaxim]

Should the dogs not have Large Size type 0 on their profile then?

you have no idea how in need a lot of Worm profiles are of revisions and cleaning like holy shit.

 

[Pikaman]

you have no idea how in need a lot of Worm profiles are of revisions and cleaning like holy shit.

Ouch

 

[DemonicDude]

What's the conclusion here ?
That's alot of info about Rachel provided.

 

[Pikaman]

I’m not fully convinced about the legitimacy of Large size type 0 summons that automatically outspeed in this particular environment but I think I’m alone in that concern so I’ll let it slide for now

Licorne still has a few win-cons here, but new info provided does make it much tougher for him, so I’ll retract my vote until we get further info from Licorne’s supporters/rep

 

[Apeironaxim]

They're able to keep up with Glory Girl's flight speed, which is 80 mph, as said before that can "outpace any car you'd find on the road". One was able to scale a building in seconds just by zig zag jumping:

“What’s our plan!?” I shouted, raising my voice to be heard as one of Purity’s blasts crashed down to the street to our right.

“Get her attention!” Grue replied. He pointed, “Up!”

Bitch whistled, and Brutus surged forward in our pack. Brutus turned partway into an alley and leaped. He latched his claws on one wall of the building, half turned, then leaped across to the neighboring building. Zig-zagging upward, he ascended to the roof in a span of seconds.

Tagged a flying Aegis by leaping/jumping

Aegis bolted the second the dog changed course, but it was too late. As he tried to fly out of reach, Judas leaped, nearly twice as far and high as I might have guessed something as big as he was could. The dog’s prehensile tail wrapped around Aegis’ torso. As they all fell, mount, rider and ensnared captive, Bitch shouted something I couldn’t hear, and Judas whipped Aegis straight down, adding the force of the throw to the momentum of the fall.

Another instance of scaling a building in seconds

Tattletale turned around and it looked like she was going to say something else, but she stopped, turning her head. The smile she’d been wearing faded, “Heads up. We’ve gotta scram.”

Bitch nodded in response and whistled, one short whistle followed by two long ones. After a brief pause, the building was suddenly rattled by impacts. In just moments, the three creatures of hers leaped from the alleys to either side of the building and onto the roof.

 

[Pikaman]

80 mph

Their calc for their AP uses 40mph, using 80mph puts them well above the tournaments AP limit... just over 870 Kilojoules to be exact

 

[Apeironaxim]

tbf It's not 100% certain GG was flying at full speed, iirc 80 mph is the upper part of her flying speed. But still, she woudn't exactly be slow in that instance, especially with the other feats of scaling buildings in seconds and leaping tag another flying character

 

[Pikaman]

It's not 100% certain GG was flying at full speed, iirc 80 mph is the upper part of her flying speed. But still, she woudn't exactly be slow in that instance, especially with the other feats of scaling buildings in seconds and leaping tag another flying character

Were they keeping up with Glory Girl’s flight speed or not? The dogs leave the AP limit of the tournament at 59.846618131474MPH, far slower than “any car on the road” and defo not enough to “keep up” with an 80mph character. Also dubious if they could scale a building in “seconds” at that speed. You don’t get to argue the dogs have speeds that literally disqualify them from this tournament and then say “oh but they’re not actually that fast” when someone picks up on it. I’m really dubious on whether these dogs qualify for this tournament or not

 

[Apeironaxim]

Were they keeping up with Glory Girl’s flight speed or not? The dogs leave the AP limit of the tournament at 59.846618131474MPH, far slower than “any car on the road” and defo not enough to “keep up” with an 80mph character. Also dubious if they could scale a building in “seconds” at that speed. You don’t get to argue the dogs have speeds that literally disqualify them from this tournament and then say “oh but they’re not actually that fast” when someone picks up on it. I’m really dubious on whether these dogs qualify for this tournament or not

I mean they're in a city, so 40-55 mph would prob be an average speed of cars there. The calc takes that assumption of a lower end of 40 mph.

Also dubious if they could scale a building in “seconds” at that speed.

Then you don't realize what those speeds actually mean. The average height of a 4 story building is ~40.5 ft, and 40 mph = 58 feet/second

 

[Pikaman]

I mean they're in a city, so 40-55 mph would prob be an average speed of cars there. The calc takes that assumption of a lower end of 40 mph.

So they weren’t capable of matching Glory Girl’s speed at all. Make your mind up about how fast the dogs are, even if their pure AP alone doesn’t fall out of the range they still heavily outspeed most participants here

Then you don't realize what those speeds actually mean. The average height of a 4 story building is ~40.5 ft, and 40 mph = 58 feet/second

Yeah my bad on this one I realised it was off just after I sent it

 

[Apeironaxim]

So they weren’t capable of matching Glory Girl’s speed at all. Make your mind up about how fast the dogs are, even if their pure AP alone doesn’t fall out of the range they still heavily outspeed most participants here

Glory Girl was flying over the stampeding dogs, a cell phone pressed to her ear, in Bitch’s general direction. Ink and Bruno leaped to the side of a building and then leaped from that point toward Glory Girl. She struck Socks across the head, sending him flying to the ground, and Bruno slammed into her, knocking the phone from her grip. She brought her knee up into the dog’s side and pushed herself away before he could drive her down into the ground.
The heroine went for Bitch, who had only Angelica at her side. Angelica positioned herself between enemy and master, and Glory Girl hit the dog broadside. Angelica barely reacted, turning instead to snap at Glory Girl. Her teeth rebounded off the heroine’s outstretched arm, and Glory Girl darted backward, to hover in the air. Catching her breath? Watching the situation?

Was GG going full 80 mph here? Maybe not, it's not clear, but there is no reason to assume she was flying super slow. This is another feat for the dogs speed and ability to leap/jump on opponents very quickly, that's not debatable