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Tier 6 Nasuverse Discussion Thread

Though, that makes no sense scaling wise because Lion King should be > Tesla....


Lion King >>> Servant Lancer artoria => Her Alter => Tesla. Something like that right?

Edit: Ea and Rhon do share a lot of similarities.....


Edit2: it is referring to the reverse side, but I hate bringing up the cosmology debate due to the numerous contradictions. Also, look up that Forgeriner Mecha unit MHX bonds.
 
Lion King would border around Gramps and Arc if anything.

Gramps scales from cutting Dragon Tiamat wings, and Gawain said he's near, likely above Lion King's level

So it would put Dragon Tiamat => Gramps => Lion King

There are also statement of her being on the same level as Divine Spirits, and one with her having Authority, so be careful about scaling her with normal Servants.
 
We're scaling her casual blast to unamped Gawain though... And Arash....????????

And her NP should be the same just unrestricted....???
 
Her casual blasts don't scale to her true AP, so it should be fine.

Likely her NP would scale to her AP, but never forget that Lord Camelot can block stuffs of that potency, like when it later block Ars Armadel Salomonis. And regardless of her being 2-A or High 6-B (talking about her NP), it's likely an Outlier for Airgetlam to slash it away.
 
Yeah that's all fine, I'm just strictly talking about her NP attack potency only.. not her casual blast... Being likely multi-continental at maximum power.... That was 6-A right???
 
Along with a High 6-A or Low 5-B thing in Extra or CCC, something about Tamamo being above someone who can destroy 80% of the planet or some crap like that
 
The Thread's current summary should be like this, right?

  • Servant AP: Scales from casual Lion King shooting villages, which should be comparable to the shot she thought would be enough would kill Gawain (it's not), which was calced to a Low end of near-baseline High 7-A, and a High end of 6-C (If we backscale from the Low end, it can result in borderline 7-A)
  • A++ Rank NP: Scales from Tesla's System Keraunos. While Tesla himself ironically shouldn't scale as it's a hax feat, his statement of lightning destroying North America can be calced to a Low end of 6-B, a Mid end of High 6-B, and a High end of High 6-A
 
Seems right.


We can scale characters between Gawain, and Arash. Gawain can scans to Karna. So between them... Lots of scaling can happen...

In all honesty, I'm fine with the large country tier calc for Tesla. It's just that I feel rank A++ NP's could possibly be higher...
 
Speaking of which, I'm doing Salter's interlude where she is confronting Altera, and by the way things look...Geez...Also Altera's sword is directly said that it incinerates the world, dunno if that's flowery language but it is something to consider

Also Salter says she got stronger after the fight
 
TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
Seems right.

We can scale characters between Gawain, and Arash. Gawain can scans to Karna. So between them... Lots of scaling can happen...

In all honesty, I'm fine with the large country tier calc for Tesla. It's just that I feel rank A++ NP's could possibly be higher...
Click to expand...
It'd be like:

Karna > Extra Playables => Gawain & People with B+ strength

You can add some more to the scaling (Excluding Parameter stuffs, because it's obvious)
 
Altera's sword is the sword of the God Mars of War, so I mean... but no, I wouldn't use any random statements like that that are just too general, especially when she could only destroy rome when amped by Grail.

I am a little eh to scale things to Tesla, but that's alright. I'll never agree with using Santa Quetz being she's such a joke Servant and her NP that should be weaker than many others despite scaling dozens of thousands of times above anything those NPs have shown.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
I'll never agree with using Santa Quetz being she's such a joke Servant and her NP that should be weaker than many others despite scaling dozens of thousands of times above anything those NPs have shown.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the Nasuverse, where joke characters and fan appearances are intrinsically linked to the serious lore. A totally serious servant who plays a major plot roll can be introduced during a joke event, which no one in universe considers weird. Joke characters like Taiga can unintentionally save the world 3 times in one night indirectly, but this is also a legit part of the plot where the main protags would have lost if not for them. The joke aspects also get treated as legit powers like Taiga's luck needing to be explicitly nerfed, and many of the characters wonder how the hell Jaguarman can be one of the actual main antagonists, who is an actual divine spirit, and completely destroy the main cast in legit combat while making WWE jokes.

We also were already going to use the Alter Ego versions of Eli to scale due to their nuclear explosion thing way back when. Needless to say, they are also joke characters, but at this point the line is so blurred its hard to say. Trying to disqualify a feat simply for coming from a character whose origin is a gag is an incredibly hard thing to do in Fate.
 
We can totally make a profile of Santa Quetz, doesn't mean we should scale to her. I sure hope nobody things scaling to Riyo Manga Gudao is a good idea it would be the end of all of us.

And yeah, I am very okay with that.

It just says she will destroy Rome. Leaving aside the fact that it would be gradual since she isn't covering all of it in a few seconds, there's no reason to assume she could destroy more.
 
Not intrinsically, no. Some stuff is serious, some I really see no way you could take it at face value. Do we know Nero would be a way better magus than a Saber from her Caster Form? Totally. Does that mean theres a legit version of her that can summon a macross laser cathedral and has Gundam Bits as weapons? Not really. Can Saber walk on water? Yeh. Does there exist a version in a swimsuit with a toy water gun that can shot Excalibur aside from the joke event? I sure hope you don't believe there is.

It is not, the things are just jumbled up for the sake of fun. I can't fathom how would anyone think to connect these events to the wider fate universe seriously. I just find that inconceivably dumb. Saying multiverses like that waves everything away is the worst excuse I could ever hear as well, seeths my blood whenever I hear that. This isn't marvel jesus christ.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Not intrinsically, no. Some stuff is serious, some I really see no way you could take it at face value. Do we know Nero would be a way better magus than a Saber from her Caster Form? Totally. Does that mean theres a legit version of her that can summon a macross laser cathedral and has Gundam Bits as weapons? Not really. Can Saber walk on water? Yeh. Does there exist a version in a swimsuit with a toy water gun that can shot Excalibur aside from the joke event? I sure hope you don't believe there is.
It is not, the things are just jumbled up for the sake of fun. I can't fathom how would anyone think to connect these events to the wider fate universe seriously. I just find that inconceivably dumb. Saying multiverses like that waves everything away is the worst excuse I could ever hear as well, seeths my blood whenever I hear that. This isn't marvel jesus christ.
Click to expand...
You do realize those versions are done by them explicitly messing with their own Spirit Origins ? More so Artoria having her Spirit Origin being messed with by Scathach with her Rune Magic.

Also, that's pretty much a argument from incredulity, as you're brushing it off as it being dumb, even though the Gundam thing is in her final ascension while in the event itself she stays in her regular form the entire time, and the stuff she got from, including her vehicle is from the Da Vinci
 
That doesn't change things when this messing of Spirit Origins is only shown happening and being possibey in said joke events, unless you honestly wanna tell me Scathach has ever shown using runes to pull off anything remotely similar in anything that isn't a joke or side event. Feel free to show me that they are mucking about with their spirit origins in all of these cases, rather than a passing explanation for one ocasion.

Uuuuuuuuuuh... did you literally miss the part where she summons those even when she doesn't have them equipped no matter her ascension? Don't use bullshit fallacies either, there's no personal beliefs here. It's on you to prove the entirety of joke Servants and events are a thing for the wider fate universe rather than small details here and there (which is not even proof of anything, unless you expect everything to be silly, dumb and entirely unrelated to the rest of Fate in its entirety).
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Not intrinsically, no. Some stuff is serious, some I really see no way you could take it at face value. Do we know Nero would be a way better magus than a Saber from her Caster Form? Totally. Does that mean theres a legit version of her that can summon a macross laser cathedral and has Gundam Bits as weapons? Not really. Can Saber walk on water? Yeh. Does there exist a version in a swimsuit with a toy water gun that can shot Excalibur aside from the joke event? I sure hope you don't believe there is.
It is not, the things are just jumbled up for the sake of fun. I can't fathom how would anyone think to connect these events to the wider fate universe seriously. I just find that inconceivably dumb. Saying multiverses like that waves everything away is the worst excuse I could ever hear as well, seeths my blood whenever I hear that. This isn't marvel jesus christ.
Click to expand...
When I mean intrinsically I mean that there isn't a real differentiation beyond perhaps Learning with Manga but even then the statesmen event blurs that line as well. Neco Arc is also probably the closest thing to a purely joke character we have. Caster Nero may be mostly a joke but she is still a legit servant who was born from a modified spirit origin, who Ritsuka could summon to her side to fight serious enemies any time they like. They still walk along side Caster Gilles and King Hassan in the actual legions of Chaldea. Summer Nitocris is more proof of this blurred line, since there is nothing about her that distinguishes her from a "legit" servant.

Yes, it is dumb, but it's one of the things that makes Fate unique. A completely serious servant like Arjuna Alter can walk straight from the serious suffering that happens in the CCC event to whatever the **** is happening in Liz's weird ass European-Egyptian-Japanese Castle. I never claimed to use the multiverse as a crutch, as my argument is more that the line is blurred further than the compartmentalized view that supports. Learning with Manga, an almost totally joke universe, does not exist in isolation from something like the Prison Tower event, which is totally serious. I didn't choose for them to be connected, they did that themselves. Its actually one of the aspects of the Nasuverse I'm not really a fan of
 
Diinou HotHead said:
The Thread's current summary should be like this, right?
  • Servant AP: Scales from casual Lion King shooting villages, which should be comparable to the shot she thought would be enough would kill Gawain (it's not), which was calced to a Low end of near-baseline High 7-A, and a High end of 6-C (If we backscale from the Low end, it can result in borderline 7-A
Click to expand...
Wait, did you read it right? OP stated its low end High 6-C, not high end 6-C
 
Yeah I read that wrong.

It's supposed to be a High end of High 6-C, yeah. (Backscaling from that may not result in a lower Tier, unlike backscaling from the Low end)
 
Saying there's not canon and non canon is so wrong I can't begin to understand if you are serious. And being able to summon characters to use in the main story doesn't suddenly change this. This is literally no different from scaling Dan up by his Arcade story that has him totally beat up people above his paygrade and set up a succesful dojo. It happens, but this isn't a thing and it is beyond impossible, but a game being a game gives you that option because FUN. The line is blurred because there isn't any attempt to define it at all.

But yes, let's just finish this first. Anything else to do or to concretely decide?
 
Most, if not everybody here have decided to use this calc here to scale to the attack Lion King hit Gawain and Gawain barely survived it. It should be quite a bit stronger than Gawain's dura, so his dura should scale significantly below this.

What's left is to decide which end of the calc we gonna use. Oh, maybe some NP discussions too.
 
Personally I'd backscale the actual Servant Durability far below what was calced, as the only one calced was for the bigger craters.

It's not fully casual for the one shot Gawain after all, Lion King plans for the shot to kill Gawain.
 
I mean, even the big Jerusalem crater is not using Rhon's full power, so like...

And I do believe Chariot did calc the smaller craters that are in the world map.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Saying there's not canon and non canon is so wrong I can't begin to understand if you are serious. And being able to summon characters to use in the main story doesn't suddenly change this. This is literally no different from scaling Dan up by his Arcade story that has him totally beat up people above his paygrade and set up a succesful dojo. It happens, but this isn't a thing and it is beyond impossible, but a game being a game gives you that option because FUN. The line is blurred because there isn't any attempt to define it at all.
But yes, let's just finish this first. Anything else to do or to concretely decide?
Click to expand...
Are u responding to me or to someone else? It follows some similar beats to my arguments but seem to follow Dangai's direct comment more. I just wanna make sure before I respond

To be clear, I don't think things in Nasu cant be canon or non canon. There are explicitly non canon works by Nasu. That is not my argument
 
So which crater calc are we using for Gawain? Remember that Lion King wanted to kill Gawain so it shouldn't be the smaller ones imo. Unless we want to go with the lowest possible low end.
 
They are directed to me, but I didn't say that there was no canon and non canon, just that there's ALMOST no Canon and Non Canon, because the lines between what should be canon and what is non canon is too blurry at this point
 
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