Tier 6 Nasuverse Discussion Thread

[Makkurona]

Weird how this went from possible downgrading to an upgrade

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Weird how this went from possible downgrading to an upgrade

Well, some free people are gonna calc the feats, then revise the AP sooner or later.

The invalidity of the Angra calc just made it even more urgent.

Anyways, I have to recheck the VS Lion King scene...

After I finished farming.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Whew... finished farming, and gathered some other statements for other feats not related to this.

Anyways, Airgetlam blocking Rhon can either get PISsed, or explained that more than half of it were already blocked by Lord Camelot.

And the second scene is outright stated Bedivere is returning Excalibur to her, not smashing her with it. Using the word "If you use that" could either be a mistranslation or just fancy wording.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

The spear itself was destroyed by Excalibur. From the way it sounds*

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Not destroyed. Lion King's connection to it was cut, since she regained Excalibur.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

And I think the Lance's manifestation was long destroyed by Ramessium Tentyris.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

But we see her have the Lance Though once you enter the throne room???

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Oh, so you mean the Lance she wields.

Then I already already answered it. Her connection to it, and her ability to use it were already cut off after she regained Excalibur.

 

[Chariot190]

When returning Excalibur, context seems to state that Excalibur and Rhon were in a clash when the scene already started, due to the extremely violent shaking and the fact Lance outright says that she's getting pushed back and is being overpowered. Excalibur was returned in that scene but that doesnt mean that here wasnt a clash immediatly before.

As for Camelot blocking most of the shot, not how that works, that seems to be a baseless assumption, from what we know and what was said, Excalibur destroyed the shot, nothing more, nothing less (and camelot blocking the shot wouldnt weaken it, it'd only stop it temporarily, the shot would still exist in its entirity, which Excalibur destroyed) Maybe some seals were off? Over half the seals could have been off of it given the sitution.

Also my bad for not responding, was at a party last night.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

To clear some things:

- Vasavi Shakti isn't extra effective against gods. Its rank merely points out how it is an NP powerful enough to kill a full fledged God, not a Divine Spirit, so anything else that is lesser (meaning almost everything) is just as likely to die.

- Don't use Command Seals in any hard logical way. Balmung comparing to VS with one commans seal boost is utter PIS. Reminder that Achilles Shield is only weak to Anti-World NPs, but despite blocking VS, the shield was utterly destroyed as a consequence. That SHOULDN'T happen. The shield isn't one use only.

- Stella may not have needed 3 command seal boost. Remember that Stella uses up Arash's life, there's no coming back when it's used, and Arash's master had all 3 still on her. Is not only overpowering the Dendera Light Bulb, Ozy was protected behind 10 walls each strong enough to take an anti fortress NP and had Regenerationn comparable to his nigh-immortal sphynx. So on one side, Arash's master had no reason to keep her 3 command seals with Arash dead after the fact, and on the other, Arash wasn't just overpowering the light bulb. And above all this, we don't know how much power the Lion King put on her barrier compared to her casual layzor shots.

 

[Chariot190]

Well, scorching the eart is gonna be like 6-A, at the minimum, it doesnt even need a calc, its one of those common feats that you can easily give a value to like punching down a wall or creating a storm, 6-A/High 6-A is the minimum, but nothing scales to it i dont think.

Yeah, Balmug is around CBA which is <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Vasavi, I kinda hate using PIS as an excuse for things but I cant really think of a way that it would make sense given the information. Actually isnt command seals just a way to either 1. Make a servant listen or 2. Through the combination of the servants and masters power, allow feats that would normally be possible by their lonesoe like teleportation or a makeshift manaburst? Regardless, that should be enough anyhow.

Actually we may know, isnt the barrier the lance itself? In some weird way? Well, that just sounds like a waver iskander situation were he used all 3 because he knew, win or lose, it wouldnt matter when the nights done.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Command Seals are more or less a metric **** ton of mana compressed into those tattoes. They are made to give orders to the Servant - if it's one they don't agree with, the command seal will force on them with strength dependent on how narrow the request is. The vaguer and more open, the weaker. If the Servants agree or even are one of mind with the Master, it can do nearly Impossible things or boost the Servant incredibly by the surge of magical power. If you use it up to boost a single action, it gives a pretty big boost.

And more or less. Either they won or not, and either way Arash was dead. Gotta give it your all. And I am not sure if the barrier was the Lance itself, would need to look it up.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

I checked the scene when Airgetlam slashed Rhon away... Damn. I can't say much but give an Outlier for it. It's a god damn True Name Release.

One casual shot took a Stella to null it. And the Airgetlam just slashed the Full Power one off.

 

[Chariot190]

Yeah but it could of had over half the seals unleashed, it met like 8 requirements so idk. But it's also the real excalibur, it isnt a construct or something done by the throne of heroes, it's the literal thing, idk if that changes anything.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

I suppose...

I need to check if Bedivere unleashed the Airgetlam's True Name on anyone else.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Isn't the Excalibur also A++ tier NP?? It also had 3 people clashing with Rhon Bedi said something about how he couldn't unleash it's power, so he asked the Mc and mash for help. But it could be pis, or outlier, could just be something for the sake of plot.

 

[Chariot190]

If you mean excalibur, no, he never did reveal it was excalibur untill that moment. If you mean saying Airgetlam then yeah, I think once.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

With the context and information we have on hand, I am very tempted to call that a big, fat outlier yes.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Well, 2 for Outlier with that Airgetlam swatting Rhongomyniad.

Now we have scaling Shakti and SUTERAAAA

 

[Chariot190]

I dont know if I wanna call Rhon clashing with Excalibur an outlier, I'd rather other things clashing with Excalibur an outlier. Excalibur lorewise should be around Rhon while at full power and Excalibur has that hype going for it. Lorewise it seems to be equal but featwise it isnt, it's like a case of a featless wonder, or jiren, it has a bunch of hype around it but it doesnt have good feats.

The scene could make sense if we assume some restraints were undone though, up to 8 seals could have been undone given the circumstances.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Also, rhon shouldn't have all it's seals unlocked either. Unless we can assume that Artoria has complete control over them as lancer.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Well, are there any indications Excalibur in life is more powerful than the Grail Summoned counterpart though? I only remembered it's a Divine Construct.

As for Rhon's seals I have 3 options:

• Check how many seals were unlocked ourself

• Just scale it like other NPs

• Outlier

 

[Chariot190]

Issue with that is Rhon has the big feats, and multipe feats at that, all throughout a somewhat consistent tier. So option 2 is out.

Option 1 is possible and I checked what the seals are and Excalibur would of had more unlocked going by the rules but idk if it's 1:1.

Still not to keen or claiming outlier, that's only something that should be used when it's literally impossible to make sense of.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

In Lord El melloii case files. We see a few of the Spears seals. I can screenshot them later

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

The seals are the very same as the ones from Excalibur Proto.

As for it being impossible, as far as I am aware it is. Dead On is not comparable to Excalibur, not in Rank or in Type. Unless anything shows that he was actually using full on Excalibur, I do not trust that.

 

[Chariot190]

Isnt the literal entire point of the scene was that he deactivated the magecraft to hide excalibur and his true nature and used excalibur, like the thing itself? He wasnt using Dead On, he was using Excalibur. He kinda says himself that he's gonna unleash and reveal his NP's true nature, which is, obviously, Excalibur (plus he says when Lancetoria sees this she should recall it, with this being excalibur).

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Could I see the scans to check if this is actually the case?

It seems especially weird to me that he could pull it out and actually use it whenever he wanted but never did no matter the circumstances.

 

[Chariot190]

But he was explicitly trying to make sure nobody found out that he had excalibur (or even who he was, hence why he was going by lucius for awhile), if the knights of the round ever found out he had excalibur then he would of never made it to the lion king to return it, hence the disguising of it in the first place with the help of merlin. So of course he didnt no matter the circumstances, the whole point was to never actually use it or tip off he had it.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

That just personally makes no sense to me, because the knights were already in their way and they ended up having to kill many of them because there was literally no shape or form in which they could reach Lancertoria without getting stopped by them, and he can't even deliver the thing if he dies trying to keep it hidden.

You could call it plot but the idea just doesn't sell to me.

 

[Chariot190]

Well that's why, its why he kept his name hidden and used the name of his brother instead, used magecraft to disguise who and what he really was and why he had merlin disguise excalibur as his arm so nothing could pick up that it was actually excalibur but raher a different np entirely.

He didnt want to draw attention to himself, yeah the knights were against him, but better one or two then having the entire table up and come personally kick his ass all at the same time with the force of a thousand suns plus the lion king personally trying to stop him from afar. The message is conveyed a lot better in the actual game but that's literally why, he never unleashed Excalibur's form and might untill he was face to face with Lancetoria, the game makes that clear. The story cutscenes were linked a few times already if you wanna watch it but it's long.

 

[Chariot190]

Actually why's that even matter? Point is Bedi never used excalibur untill the end,why doesnt matter, point is that he never did.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

After seeing the scene... I can't say I agree. It seems he matched her in combat, but that's it. He didn't destroy the lance, it lost its connection to Arthuria once she remembered and got back the sword. It doens't even seems like he uses it unlike what the Lion King is saying, since there's no big boom like a clash of beams, there's no true name being called, there's no NP chant. And above all, using it wouldn't do anything to Bedivere that wasn't already happening, letting it go was what would actually **** him, because the sword that was keeping him alive would no longer be on him and he'd die, which is exactly what happens. Once the deed is done and he disappears, the Lion King has Excalibur on her hand. Which very much sonds like he passed it, rather than have a sword beam.

 

[Chariot190]

Ignoring the extremely violent shaking that suggests that a beam struggle was going on when the cutscene happened (given that he sure as hell wasnt physically pushing the lion king back with his arms that were turning to dust) you forget the part where Bedi says Switch on, Airgetlam! It's time for you to tear the light of judgement to pieces! and as we know, that's also when Excalibur's true form was also revealed. And NP Chant? It isnt an NP in the first place, it's the real excalibur. And he clashed with it prior to giving the sword back and was already feeling ill effects. And we know it wasnt Algeltem in that scene or even the previous because it was made clear he took off the cloaking magecraft and everyone wsa like oh shit, it's excalibur. (Also he did reveal it's true name in the prior cutscene, he says it's excalibur).

I should also point out that returning the sword to lancetoria is continuosly being said like that's all that happened, it wasnt, he didnt just simply walk up and hand it to her, there was an exchange going and he overpowered her in that exchange and him alone given the absence of any other character in that entire conversation, given the shaking (which iirc is used when fgo wants to convey beams and the like in cutscnes) was likely a beam struggle. Also nobody said Bedi destroyed the lance and nobody said that giving the sword wasnt what killed him, only the other things happened prior to giving the sword and, well nobody said the first thing at all, we were talking about Ozy destroying the barrier, which is the lance itself.


Regardless, in the final and semi-final cutscene Bedivere, using Excalibur overpowers Rhon, we know it's excalibur because it was established that he took off the cloaking magic that merlin put on it and himself and that he himself says that he's now usng excalibur, and it's outright stated that he destroys a shot from Rhon while simutaneously revealing it's true nature as the sword. Obviously his art isnt going to change or anything, but he is using excalibur in those scenes and at the very least, he stopped a shot from Rhon uing excaliburs light, which as we know, is the giant ass beam that it shoots out given that's how the beam is usually referred to as in text works.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I mean, do you wanna suggest he was shooting the beam... with his arms turning to dust instead? See Zero, Arthur needs both arms fully functional or Excalibur can't be used. Not to mention the room is shaking, but is doing so before she says "if you use it" or whatever it was she said. And the lion king says nothing about her beam being overpowered either, despite commenting how a nobody is overpowering when the fight starts. And Avalon in the Fate route is the real Avalon, Saber still needs to call the name.

Nop at all. Otherwise there would have been a beam struggle and just then, apparently, the Lion King remembers... despite the fact she remembers when she has excalibur on her hands and loses the connection to the lance... And Merlin directly implied it, what are you talking about. Bedivere was alive because the sword doesn't let people age, that was directly said, just as merlin also said that he knew what would happen by him giving it back since it had kept him alive this long. You can go back a bit before the scene to see if you want.

So no, I don't agree with it.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

So what are we going to do with the Airgetlam VS Full Power Rhongomyniad thing?

I myself has my hand ready for the "Outlier" button.

 

[Ozy_the_God-King]

@LSirLancelotDuLacl, read fragments again because after Elsa boosted Arash and he released Stella along with Excailbur by his side, it is stated that Excailbur was the one that crush the divine steel after its surface were melted by the scorching heat of the Dendera. And also the text said If Ozy released the Dendera with all of his might. Which didn't happen as he relied on imperial privilege. You can't also scale Dendera to the sheath because we don't have any evidence if he released it with all of his might and if he did the outer area around Camelot should on fire as stated with its after effects. Also in Camelot he states that he didn't use Dendera out of wariness to the light of judgment and when he launches the Dendera he first speculates twice then ten times which you as reader should wonder if he could have pulled that off and died there on a whim or he could have lost a major output of his temple abilities.

This all depends on the speculation of the reader and what the reader takes into account.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

That's dumb. I am sorry but that's so incredibly wrong I don't even know what to say. Ozy did a freaking suicide attack stronger than anything he could do with the Dendera Light Bulb in the first place because he couldn't penetrate the Lion King's barrier. Or do you think he uselessly killed himself because he didn't wanna be involved instead of using the Dendera Light Bulb at full power? If he's gonna kill himself anyway, why not try the bulb at full power? Why is throwing the whole complex a safer option? Because it's stronger.

Ozy's intelligence is massive. He was wary of the risk exactly because he knew he could fail, he understood the Lion King's power.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

This would never end

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

This would never end

Very long for an argument about AP rating for something that scales to NP, in a Thread about Servants Physicals, yeah.

Getting honest, it should be concluded long ago with using the casual Rhongomyshot as the feat.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I was busy with IRL stuff for the last day and half, but

In short, were just trying to figure out the scaling from what everything seems to be.