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Tier 4 LN Momoshiki Key/profile pt2

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Lop222 said:
PandarianOda said:
If only three people agree despite two entire threads of this, with multiple debunked calcs and the thread basically going nowhere because three people do not want to drop it or accept it's not happening.
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Agree man all this feats about momoshiki people has misunderstanding.
With Momoshiki absorbing energy he was absorbing chakra from his surrounding just like Naruto does with his sage mode.
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its a speed feat do we have to go over this again?
 
If only three people agree despite two entire threads of this,

Everyone who has disargeed has had their arguments addressed at one point or another

with multiple debunked calcs

None of the calcs have been debunked

and the thread basically going nowhere because three people do not want to drop it or accept it's not happening.

The threads going no where because people are attempting to stonewall the discussion instead of actually providing counter arguments, saying "No" and "Outlier" without providing proper reasoning for those claims isn't a justification to end the topic before its reached an actual consensus

Perhaps it is something that should be tallied as most content revisions you know.. do.

Tallying this when it hasn't even reached a proper conclusion isn't going to do anything but lead to skewed results as I've said all of the counter arguments such be brought up and addressed before a tally is held

Enough time has passed and enough staff and members have commented that it's clear what the opinion of what should be done concerning this topic is.

And in that time no one has provided an adequate counter to the OP
 
There is a consensus among everyone that isnt you three and now soul of cinder.

Not everyone has to agree to have something passed and not everyone has to 'be concluded' it's sort of like how most content revisions actually act and perform is through some sort of vote system if a topic is obviously not reaching a conclusion and all the 'debunking' hasnt actually changed anything.

For instance saying 'but DBZ!' to people pointing out that there isnt enough to justify a new profile isnt a debunk or a rebuttal. Especially when said people then lay put all the differences that actually exist between the two examples. No one has actually provided any aufficient evidence of significant difference between the LN and the other profiles to warrant its existence.

Second the calculations have not been accepted so to implement them is literally not possible. Which also hasnt had a sufficent rebuttal or reasoning why we would use them when they arent infact valid at this time.

Neither of these things have been properly addressed or rebutted and have basically been pushed aside despite the fact these are the primary concerns of the people who do not accept this revision. If they continue to not be addressed then its clear that no one will have their minds changed on the necessity of this profile and as such continuing to act as though they have been addressed is being dishonest.
 
PandarianOda said:
There is a consensus among everyone that isnt you three and now soul of cinder.

Not everyone has to agree to have something passed and not everyone has to 'be concluded' it's sort of like how most content revisions actually act and perform is through some sort of vote system if a topic is obviously not reaching a conclusion and all the 'debunking' hasnt actually changed anything.

For instance saying 'but DBZ!' to people pointing out that there isnt enough to justify a new profile isnt a debunk or a rebuttal. Especially when said people then lay put all the differences that actually exist between the two examples. No one has actually provided any aufficient evidence of significant difference between the LN and the other profiles to warrant its existence.

Second the calculations have not been accepted so to implement them is literally not possible. Which also hasnt had a sufficent rebuttal or reasoning why we would use them when they arent infact valid at this time.

Neither of these things have been properly addressed or rebutted and have basically been pushed aside despite the fact these are the primary concerns of the people who do not accept this revision. If they continue to not be addressed then its clear that no one will have their minds changed on the necessity of this profile and as such continuing to act as though they have been addressed is being dishonest.
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Actually all issues have been addressed, I suppose we need a voting system now.
 
The example of DBZ anime and manga was brought up, but like...

I'm talking about dbs' manga and anime

The scaling across multiple keys is different, what they scale to is different

The scaling for the keys preposed here are different, For Naruto, saskue and kaguya. Their speed and ap would be drastically higher.

the speed is different

Yh so would it be for this

the lifting strength is different

Not sure about this

the weaknesses are different

Yh momoshiki was caught of guard in this version

Goku has about 4 or 5 added abilities plus some other added resistances.

Has absolute zero

He has time space creation

4-A feat

Mftl speed feat

He's absorbing and reflecting jutsu is several instead of double, this means 3 or more times

Absolute zero resistance

my opinion can't do much unless they were to agree with me which I doubt.

Ok

Only issue after that is the calcs, as M3X mentioned.

I've sent them for evaluation there seems to be no problem regardless they don't even require calcs

Momoshiki and kaguya can create parallel dimensions with starry skys Momoshiki drains chakra from beyond it in a very short timeframe, etc.
 
@100th Hokage

He probably has been visiting this site before getting his account.
 
@PandarianOda;

So 4 people's opinions and arguments don't matter at all because? I mean yea we're not admins but to say that we should be ignored because we're a minority is a bit arrogant imo. Besides all the counter claims have been addressed one way or another.

I don't mean to be rude, and I don't actually get upset about this kind of stuff. It's fiction after all and we're all having fun here. But some people are being a bit too nitpicky and dismissive about certain things.

Edit: welcome back Omimi! Guess we're 5 now lol.
 
dont know why people keep saying that

"only NL ability and tier differ from manga"

when we know that there plot also not same

NL naruto and sasuke vs momo differ from manga

NL Momoshiki created dimension and manga version didn't/unknown

NL Momoshiki's transformation differ from manga

NL Momoshiki's absorb energy from star/planet while in manga he only eat chakra pill so on
 
That list you posted again hokage is something multiple people have pointed out is literally not enough and the parts about scaling literally dont matter so the list is cut into like a fifth of the size and people have then addressed that what remains isnt enough for a profile.

Yeah, I've been lurking for years and have finally made an account. If that's against the rules or relevant in anyway to this topic then this topic is literally far too gone from its purpose.

Four peoples opinions; one of which is just 'I agree', one who hasnt actually addressed the things that he claims have been adressed/debunked other than they have been addressed because he replied which I guess debunks them. Well you and the other dude who just keeps listing fallacies as though it discredits how the site does things and what I'm saying.

The counter claims actually havent been addressed other than saying they have been, and the calcs still arent accepted and yes hokage they do matter because your attempting to put the LN profile at a certain level of power and speed that require said calcs to be accepted so they can be implemented.

If people just not agreeing or accepting something was enough on this wiki then no revisions would happen period.

This topic is basically just being dragged on because people dont want to accept that everyone else, staff included has said 'no'.

Which in every other Revision would be enough but for some reason here it's different because....?
 
1) I've made many arguments in the previous thread and in the Kaguya thread, just don't feel like repeating myself.

2) They have been addressed, you're the one who keeps saying "lol nope". Maybe read the posts more carefully, @Hokage and @NotCensored are making good points.

3) Saying things will never change just cuz won't actually stop people from trying lol.

And we're 5 now.... get it right!
 
PandarianOda said:
That list you posted again hokage is something multiple people have pointed out is literally not enough and the parts about scaling literally dont matter so the list is cut into like a fifth of the size and people have then addressed that what remains isnt enough for a profile.

Yeah, I've been lurking for years and have finally made an account. If that's against the rules or relevant in anyway to this topic then this topic is literally far too gone from its purpose.

Four peoples opinions; one of which is just 'I agree', one who hasnt actually addressed the things that he claims have been adressed/debunked other than they have been addressed because he replied which I guess debunks them. Well you and the other dude who just keeps listing fallacies as though it discredits how the site does things and what I'm saying.

The counter claims actually havent been addressed other than saying they have been, and the calcs still arent accepted and yes hokage they do matter because your attempting to put the LN profile at a certain level of power and speed that require said calcs to be accepted so they can be implemented.

If people just not agreeing or accepting something was enough on this wiki then no revisions would happen period.

This topic is basically just being dragged on because people dont want to accept that everyone else, staff included has said 'no'.

Which in every other Revision would be enough but for some reason here it's different because....?
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've been lurking for years and have finally made an account. If that's against the rules or relevant in anyway to this topic then this topic is literally far too gone from its purpose.


Firstly idc if your new or not I just thought it was wierd.


That list you posted again hokage is something multiple people have pointed out is literally not enough and the parts about scaling literally dont matter so the list is cut into like a fifth of the size and people have then addressed that what remains isnt enough for a profile.

But it enough for other fictions? I've already addressed this with ant and how it fit the alternative canon requirements.

Four peoples opinions; one of which is just 'I agree', one who hasnt actually addressed the things that he claims have been adressed/debunked other than they have been addressed because he replied which I guess debunks them. Well you and the other dude who just keeps listing fallacies as though it discredits how the site does things and what I'm saying.

Are you referring to me? I have made rebuttals to most of the arguments against this, most of which were said in the prior thread. If you honestly have a problem state them yourself saying they haven't been rebuttaled when they have isn't helping your case.

If people just not agreeing or accepting something was enough on this wiki then no revisions would happen period.

This topic is basically just being dragged on because people dont want to accept that everyone else, staff included has said 'no'.

The ignorance is on your side if you really feel this way I don't mind debating you of discord vc with a moderator
 
Let just say that i disagree with the LN profile and this for some reason:

> Has absolute zero + He has time space creation+ 4-A feat+ Mftl speed feat+ He's absorbing and reflecting jutsu is several instead of double, this means 3 or more times + Absolute zero resistance

Those are really good but there is no real reason other than that for the profile, this is not enough for a profile creation, it need to makes clear distinction, he just has some extra stuff instead of real other content, this number of abilities don't really matter, the plot is the same (but some tiny variation), the character is the same in most of the aspects, he has not enough content to be warrant of a profile, those changes are not enough, XWe don't judge with "how many ability he has" but more "how the characters is different not only in the power but in the media he evolve".

See some exemple, Kirby have somes other profiles but it's justifiable because he have an entire different stories where the characters is "developped" differently, this is a good exemple of non canon profiles.

>NL naruto and sasuke vs momo differ from manga, NL Momoshiki created dimension and manga version didn't/unknown, NL Momoshiki's transformation differ from manga, NL Momoshiki's absorb energy from star/planet while in manga he only eat chakra pill so o

Those change are really minor, that don't change the non-canonicity of the media but that's clearly not enough, having one diffferent fight (or more), with a few different ability in the same context/scene/plot is not enough.

Well i disagree.
 
Those are really good but there is no real reason other than that for the profile, this is not enough for a profile creation, it need to makes clear distinction, he just has some extra stuff instead of real other content, this number of abilities don't really matter, the plot is the same (but some tiny variation), the character is the same in most of the aspects, he has not enough content to be warrant of a profile, those changes are not enough, XWe don't judge with "how many ability he has" but more "how the characters is different not only in the power but in the media he evolve".

See some exemple, Kirby have somes other profiles but it's justifiable because he have an entire different stories where the characters is "developped" differently, this is a good exemple of non canon profiles.

Ok but this is one of many differences I'm not arguing this is solely the only new feat. Also the are a dozen sub plot changes. I mentioned that it meet the alternative canon policy.

Those change are really minor, that don't change the non-canonicity of the media but that's clearly not enough, having one diffferent fight (or more), with a few different ability in the same context/scene/plot is not enough.

Why is it not enough? I mentioned 10 or more differences I wouldn't say there minor since the ap difference between the LN and manga are drastic. Absolute zero is a one shot hax in most case also.
 
>Ok but this is one of many differences I'm not arguing this is solely the only new feat. Also the are a dozen sub plot changes. I mentioned that it meet the alternative canon policy.

Could you at least show them? because for now this is a no, but even with those supposed changes, i don't think it will change the outcome.

>Why is it not enough? I mentioned 10 or more differences I wouldn't say there minor since the ap difference between the LN and manga are drastic. Absolute zero is a one shot hax in most case also.

10+ differences, cool, but they are minor in the story the character evolve, just like we don't make always two differents profile for manga/anime/LN/VN despites the fact that they showed many abilities, weakness, or whatever things you want because the very story where they evolve is the same, we're not gonna make a manga profiles for Re:Zero or Maou-sama no Machizukuri! because some stuff varies from their original characters.

If you want another exemple whre it's justifiable for an other profiles for a characters, Rimuru is a good exemple, the story/characters/powers/setting of the verse are all different between the Web Novel and the LN
 
For the people saying anime Goku vs canon Goku have more abilities and stat differences than what's being proposed. No that's not really true. First of all the power jump here is far more drastic. And the plot of the DBZ anime Is literally the same as the manga aside from filler, which the Boruto anime has btw. The biggest difference is you scale the anime profile to the non canon movies. Well according to most people here this movie and it's novelization is non canon right? So the way I see it we have more than enough for an alternate profile or key. Unless you consider the novel to be canon, in which case the canon profiles would need to be upgraded instead, and I'm sure the latter option would be met with even more opposition. But one way or another we can't just pretend this source material doesn't exist.
 
Could you at least show them? because for now this is a no, but even with those supposed changes, i don't think it will change the outcome. Np

Kinshiki is taken out by Naruto and saskue

Boruto's father son Rasengan disappears

Momoshiki gets absolute zero

Momoshiki gets time space creation

Momoshiki gets mftl

Kaguya get 4-A

Momoshiki gets 4-A

Statements show Naruto and Saskue scale

Sunlight is seen in momoshiki's dimension

Gaara possibly Naruto and saskue get absolute zero resistance

Sasuke's Rinnegan had several sciences to it, and one of them was pattern recognition. It helped him analyse patterns inside codes, and by comparing them to similar patterns, decipher what was written.

Also remember this one short work not a whole series.
 
Yea no i don't think those changements are enough at all, this is basically just some news abilities, one different fight and a higher feat which scale exactly like the anime/manga.
 
Of that list again, it literally doesnt matter about kaguya and momo nor sasuke and naruto scaling as damage explained earlier. This would be a profile solely for momo.

So you have three new abilities/a new tier. Which is blatantly not enough of a diversion to warrant any new profile.
 
PandarianOda said:
Of that list again, it literally doesnt matter about kaguya and momo nor sasuke and naruto scaling as damage explained earlier. This would be a profile solely for momo.

So you have three new abilities/a new tier. Which is blatantly not enough of a diversion to warrant any new profile.
Click to expand...
Is it enough for a key?
 
The Movie Momoshiki already has a key despite not having enough "variation" why can't the LN have one? or just update his Movie one to be a Movie/ LN one so that way you wouldn't even need to make an entirely new key just tweak an existing one slightly
 
NotCensored said:
The Movie Momoshiki already has a key despite not having enough "variation" why can't the LN have one? or just update his Movie one to be a Movie/ LN one so that way you wouldn't even need to make an entirely new key just tweak an existing one slightly
Click to expand...
Nope. Just nope. Outlier and also it would be much better to ignore canon source material... umm b-b-because outlier and stuff. Yea that's the best alternative! XP
 
The Causality said:
>NL naruto and sasuke vs momo differ from manga, NL Momoshiki created dimension and manga version didn't/unknown, NL Momoshiki's transformation differ from manga, NL Momoshiki's absorb energy from star/planet while in manga he only eat chakra pill so oThose change are really minor, that don't change the non-canonicity of the media but that's clearly not enough, having one diffferent fight (or more), with a few different ability in the same context/scene/plot is not enough.
Well i disagree.
Click to expand...
first LN is canon

when we wanted to upgrades manga momo /god tier to tier 4

than it get reacted cuz LN are too different from manga

its contradict manga, plot are different and it also got retcon by manga

there are too much difference in them so.........................

and now we want separate profile for LN momo/god tier

all of u are saying nope its minor change not big enough for separate profile

so if change are so small than we use NL info to upgrades god tier

either LN get separate profile (if all of us agree those change are enough to get LN profile)

or we use LN info to upgrades ( manga) god tier/momo (if all of us agree those change are minor change so......... )
 
NotCensored said:
The Movie Momoshiki already has a key despite not having enough "variation" why can't the LN have one? or just update his Movie one to be a Movie/ LN one so that way you wouldn't even need to make an entirely new key just tweak an existing one slightly
Click to expand...
Momoshiki has a movie key?
 
Nehz XZX said:
NotCensored said:
The Movie Momoshiki already has a key despite not having enough "variation" why can't the LN have one? or just update his Movie one to be a Movie/ LN one so that way you wouldn't even need to make an entirely new key just tweak an existing one slightly
Click to expand...
Momoshiki has a movie key?
Click to expand...
Yup
 
Omimi said:
Contradict:
Click to expand...
From the stuff mentionned here, there is clearly not enough change to make a profiles, but that don't change that those changement (even minors) make the Novel non-canon. Think about how we treat the anime and the manga for some verses, they are differents but aren't different enough to warrant a profile.
 
@UchihaSlayer96

I've been told that one isn't supposed to quote large text walls.
 
From the stuff mentionned here, there is clearly not enough change to make a profiles, but that don't change that those changement (even minors) make the Novel non-canon. Think about how we treat the anime and the manga for some verses, they are differents but aren't different enough to warrant a profile.

Let me get this right your only argument is you don't feel it's enough
 
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