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It's a long explanation but the scans are on his profile. For short, Ayanokouji analyzes his opponent's upper limit and can predict their moves through that information, rather than the general AnPr which is seeing small movement changes in stance and stuff to predict someone's next moves. I don't know if any of the wiki abilities classify this kind of stuff, but AnPr is the closest as he does regard it as "prediction" somehow.
Okay. So what about in this case (it's not completely on the profile but just some). In the Ptjverse which Lookism is a big part of, specifically Quest Supremacy has systems as well as people using the system can literally read stat, height, weight and more abstract things like potential , intelligence, emotions (like when an npc is in a bloodlust state, it also turns red), anything has stat, unless you are a vegetable who has literally lost all vitality. The higher the stat, the harder it is for the system to read (reason for the information analysis resistance of some questism characters) and there is a hierarchy for that, culminating in Top tier Lookism (or at least Yohan), even the system itself cannot measure stat and falls into an error-like state
 
Okay. So what about in this case (it's not completely on the profile but just some). In the Ptjverse which Lookism is a big part of, specifically Quest Supremacy has systems as well as people using the system can literally read stat, height, weight and more abstract things like potential , intelligence, emotions (like when an npc is in a bloodlust state, it also turns red), anything has stat, unless you are a vegetable who has literally lost all vitality. The higher the stat, the harder it is for the system to read (reason for the information analysis resistance of some questism characters) and there is a hierarchy for that, culminating in Top tier Lookism (or at least Yohan), even the system itself cannot measure stat and falls into an error-like state
But UI does not have system though
 
Okay. So what about in this case (it's not completely on the profile but just some). In the Ptjverse which Lookism is a big part of, specifically Quest Supremacy has systems as well as people using the system can literally read stat, height, weight and more abstract things like potential , intelligence, emotions (like when an npc is in a bloodlust state, it also turns red), anything has stat, unless you are a vegetable who has literally lost all vitality. The higher the stat, the harder it is for the system to read (reason for the information analysis resistance of some questism characters) and there is a hierarchy for that, culminating in Top tier Lookism (or at least Yohan), even the system itself cannot measure stat and falls into an error-like state
that's mainly because the system itself doesn't allow to see stats when they are too high, it's some kind of system rule, they don't actively do stuff to decieve you into thinking they are weaker or some stuff like this, I believe it's an info an that only works inverse as it's a system specific rule.
 
Didn't they say the body will break the last time someone attempted to copy it even just a bit?
It doesn't work like that, It's something like this

Koji copies his body > Koji tries to copy his movements while in UI state > Koji destructs himself

Now what would really happen is;

Koji copies martial arts moves > Koji is still fine
 
that's mainly because the system itself doesn't allow to see stats when they are too high, it's some kind of system rule, they don't actively do stuff to decieve you into thinking they are weaker or some stuff like this, I believe it's an info an that only works inverse as it's a system specific rule.
Dependent (resistance to information analysis because that still exists in their profiles), there is no rule or reason why it cannot read Yohan's stat. Straight "Immeasurable"
 
Dependent (resistance to information analysis because that still exists in their profiles), there is no rule or reason why it cannot read Yohan's stat. Straight "Immeasurable"
There are alot of types of info analysis you know?

That type of info analysis is stats dependent which is supernatural info analysis

Koji's info analysis is analyzing body movement, Timing, Patterns etc etc via natural means
 
Didn't they say the body will break the last time someone attempted to copy it even just a bit?
It doesn't work like that, It's something like this

Koji copies his body > Koji tries to copy his movements while in UI state > Koji destructs himself

Now what would really happen is

Koji copies martial arts moves > Koji is still fine
Actually yes and no

Johan, who has the same copy skill as Daniel, attempted to copy UI Daniel's fighting style but failed initially and only could do it after doing some shit that allowed him to copy his physic for like 10 s.
A thing about Daniel 2nd body is that his fighting style keeps improving due to all the new ***** he learns but also thanks to his perfect body that allows him to maximize them.

Copy skill alone isn't enough to copy his entire fighting style but at the same time it doesn't mean you can't take something from it and implementing it within your fighting style without copying it completely; Johan tried to perfectly replicate UI Daniel, he didn't simply tried to learn some techniques or movements, he basically tried to becoming UI Daniel himself.

I also want to remind that Ayanokouji doesn't necessary need to copy Daniel to win lol so focusing too much on this point is kind of pointless
 
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Dependent (resistance to information analysis because that still exists in their profiles), there is no rule or reason why it cannot read Yohan's stat. Straight "Immeasurable"
Think of it like this;

A person can see the future to predict his opponents and also predict via body movement

Then someone with resistence to precognition appears so you can't predict him

But then you have other means to predict like body movement
 
Dependent (resistance to information analysis because that still exists in their profiles), there is no rule or reason why it cannot read Yohan's stat. Straight "Immeasurable"
which is because his stats were too high, simple as that, we know the system doesn't read higher stats, it's a bigger assumption on your side to say there is an ulterior reason which requires an ulterior proof; Johan is even presented to basically being top 1 in questism even without the system lol, his stats are indeed absurdly higher than anyone in questism.

EDIT: also, at most this will prevent ayanokouji to read Daniel's stats, it doesn't prevent him from understanding and predicting his movements.
 
Another thing I read above about UI is that it adapts to the opponent, while it is true, it doesn't mean it can match everything neither it can adapt you to a level above your 100% lol, if Ayanokouji is more skilled it doesn't necessary mean Daniel can reach that point, UI it's just reaching your maximal potential.
It also wouldn't allow Daniel to copy Ayanokouji's experience, BIQ, strategy and planning skill and stuff.
 
Voting Daniel
Reason? Otherwise it's this;

image.png
 
Okay. So what about in this case (it's not completely on the profile but just some). In the Ptjverse which Lookism is a big part of, specifically Quest Supremacy has systems as well as people using the system can literally read stat, height, weight and more abstract things like potential , intelligence, emotions (like when an npc is in a bloodlust state, it also turns red), anything has stat, unless you are a vegetable who has literally lost all vitality. The higher the stat, the harder it is for the system to read (reason for the information analysis resistance of some questism characters) and there is a hierarchy for that, culminating in Top tier Lookism (or at least Yohan), even the system itself cannot measure stat and falls into an error-like state
That's only applicable to accessing someone's stats, Ayanokouji needs to knowledge of them, he can be given that from the start of the battle or can see it in person by seeing the person's strength.

Ayanokouji doesn't use system, and not having system doesn't mean he cannot do what he usually does, it is very simple, a character throws a punch and Ayanokouji sees the strength of the punch in person, he doesn't do it naturally before the start of the fight. The only thing he can see through that is physical strength, and even that is upon someone's muscle mass, so if a character has an outright statement of not having strength up to the level of his body, then that's basically Ayanokouji not knowing their strength from the start.

I am unsure however if UI has system IDs.
Dino's reasoning is that Koji will get his body destroyed if he copies Daniel

Koji does not opt to copy right away, Koji also cannot copy UI state
Ayanokouji doesn't copy supernaturally; his power mimicry is literally due to high skillset. The chances of his body getting destroyed are zero, he will only copy to the point of sustaining himself.
 
I am unsure however if UI has system IDs.
He does not
Ayanokouji doesn't copy supernaturally; his power mimicry is literally due to high skillset. The chances of his body getting destroyed are zero, he will only copy to the point of sustaining himself.
Legit what i have been saying all this time, Also, About your comment earlier, Are you voting for Incon or Koji?
 
So because people keep saying UI, I'm guessing we're using the UI Daniel key, which is 9-A. Could Ayano even hurt Daniel? Even baseline 9-A is 425x stronger than Ayano, and I'm guessing UI Daniel is stronger than that. I get Ayano as pressure points like the liver and stuff, but that's like a normal human trying to use pressure points on a damn rhino, it just won't work

Piercing damage likely won't do anything either as UI Daniel's durability is higher than the knife's durability so the knife would just break on impact, and weaker stuff like metal can stop bullets, which does a better job at piercing damage than blades do. Also wouldn't Supernatural Willpower allow him to just fight through those effects

I might be getting the key wrong, and if I am then that's my bad, but could Ayano even hurt Daniel? If not, then Ayano kind of... can't win here, and this might be incon
 
So because people keep saying UI, I'm guessing we're using the UI Daniel key, which is 9-A. Could Ayano even hurt Daniel? Even baseline 9-A is 425x stronger than Ayano, and I'm guessing UI Daniel is stronger than that. I get Ayano as pressure points like the liver and stuff, but that's like a normal human trying to use pressure points on a damn rhino, it just won't work

Piercing damage likely won't do anything either as UI Daniel's durability is higher than the knife's durability so the knife would just break on impact, and weaker stuff like metal can stop bullets, which does a better job at piercing damage than blades do. Also wouldn't Supernatural Willpower allow him to just fight through those effects

I might be getting the key wrong, and if I am then that's my bad, but could Ayano even hurt Daniel? If not, then Ayano kind of... can't win here, and this might be incon
Ayanokouji has a knife.
 
So because people keep saying UI, I'm guessing we're using the UI Daniel key, which is 9-A. Could Ayano even hurt Daniel? Even baseline 9-A is 425x stronger than Ayano, and I'm guessing UI Daniel is stronger than that. I get Ayano as pressure points like the liver and stuff, but that's like a normal human trying to use pressure points on a damn rhino, it just won't work
Koji has a knife

Even if he didn't, He still has PP since Daniel's weak points are not 9-A
Piercing damage likely won't do anything either as UI Daniel's durability is higher than the knife's durability so the knife would just break on impact, and weaker stuff like metal can stop bullets, which does a better job at stopping piercing damage than blades do. Also wouldn't Supernatural Willpower allow him to just fight through those effects
This is straight up false, Sinu han who is a high tier gets easily pierced

Johan too, Vasco too, Zack too

There are no feats of UI being incapable of being pierced, That would be a big assumption
I might be getting the key wrong, and if I am then that's my bad, but could Ayano even hurt Daniel? If not, then Ayano kind of... can't win here, and this might be incon
Knife to the throat, Knife to the head and Knife to the eyes

There are plenty of places he can hit
 
Ayano even has Limited durab neg with his PP on his profile.

Anyway using a Rhino as example Is wrong, they have different and I assume less weak points than a normal Person.

It doesn't matter how durable you are, some parts of your body will never grew in durability unless it's proved otherwise, that's specifically what PP does.
 
Ayanokouji has a knife.
It wouldn't matter if he had a gun, Wall level objects can stop them without any damage, so could someone with 9-A durability
Koji has a knife

Even if he didn't, He still has PP since Daniel's weak points are not 9-A
Your throat is not 425x weaker than the rest of your body, which what they would need to be for Ayano to do damage to them
This is straight up false, Sinu han who is a high tier gets easily pierced
Johan too, Vasco too, Zack too

There are no feats of UI being incapable of being pierced, That would be a big assumption

Knife to the throat, Knife to the head and Knife to the eyes

There are plenty of places he can hit
I'm guessing they were getting stabbed by people with comparable AP, which invalidates that arguement because Koji is 425x weaker than those guys, unless I'm wrong on that. Also if we're using a real life knife, it wouldn't be able to pirce through someone with 9-A durability, the blade would just break. Try stabbing through a piece of metal, that's what this would be like but I think you're honestly not 425x weaker than the metal's durability

If we want to say that Daniel's pressure points & eyes and stuff are 425x weaker than the rest of the body then sure, Ayano wins, but that's kind of silly. I'm not going to vote for anyone as Grace has already started and from the arguements I saw, I'm not sure about Daniel winning, but idk that AP edge seems a bit large. Normal people wouldn't be able to stab through a rhinos skin with a knife
 
Yes, a rhino has a much more epidermal density, using it as an example is very wrong. But it has its own weak points as well though.

Pressure Points for humans is assuming that their body functions in the same way as that of humans. Like when you try to squeeze someone's neck, you basically damage their tissues and block their windpipe without harming their external body.

Pressure Points is a really good ability, it allows you to attack those points on a person's body where the concept of durability doesn't even apply, like you cannot train your windpipe to be strong.
 
It wouldn't matter if he had a gun, Wall level objects can stop them without any damage, so could someone with 9-A durability
That's not how it works, Being 9-A does not give you resistence to piercing damage, You need to show actual proof that his body resists blades which he does not

Their bodies is not made of metal lol
Your throat is not 425x weaker than the rest of your body, which what they would need to be for Ayano to do damage to them
...

Daniel's neck is not 9-A in durability
I'm guessing they were getting stabbed by people with comparable AP, which invalidates that arguement because Koji is 425x weaker than those guys, unless I'm wrong on that.
You are, Being weaker does not mean anything when you have yet to prove they are immune to slashing damage (Which they arent)
Also if we're using a real life knife, it wouldn't be able to pirce through someone with 9-A durability
Again, Their bodies are not made of metal nor is resistent to piercing damage
, the blade would just break. Try stabbing through a piece of metal, that's what this would be like but I think you're honestly not 425x weaker than the metal's durability
They are not made of metal to begin with
If we want to say that Daniel's pressure points & eyes and stuff are 425x weaker than the rest of the body then sure, Ayano wins, but that's kind of silly. I'm not going to vote for anyone as Grace has already started and from the arguements I saw, I'm not sure about Daniel winning, but idk that AP edge seems a bit large. Normal people wouldn't be able to stab through a rhinos skin with a knife
Lookism characters are not immune to slashing damage, And their body is certainly not made up of metal
 
I am not meaning that Ayanokouji has attack redirection. Both use opponent's momentum to their advantage. Secondly, Ayanokouji can predict all types of attack and even their secondary purpose, he predicted that Ryuuen was using a feint, he predicted that Housen was going to harm himself all while having the initial trajectory showing it as if he was aiming ahead. The intensity AnPr in COTE is compared to reading mind of your opponent, no, attack redirection isn't even a problem, considering how it has the same type of "secondary purpose" kind of concept.
The thing is that these are all assumptions. It's an attack Koji has never seen or experienced in his life ever, so why assume he can block Daniel's Attack Reflection?
 
The thing is that these are all assumptions. It's an attack Koji has never seen or experienced in his life ever, so why assume he can block Daniel's Attack Reflection?
Because Daniel is moving his body? You know, ANPR works by predicting an opponent via body movement and other factors right?

The one making assumptions here would be you
 
The thing is that these are all assumptions. It's an attack Koji has never seen or experienced in his life ever, so why assume he can block Daniel's Attack Reflection?
He just reads his opponents' attacks secondary aim, this isn't even assuming, he has read and responded attacks much better than this which had a secondary intention.
 
Because Daniel is moving his body? You know, ANPR works by predicting an opponent via body movement and other factors right?

The one making assumptions here would be you
I have said this many times, how can you assume that he would be able to predict moves he has never seen in his life...
He just reads his opponents' attacks secondary aim, this isn't even assuming, he has read and responded attacks much better than this which had a secondary intention.
That's basically saying that because Daniel has resisted Chuck's Anpr, he can resist Koji's too since they both work with reading your opponent.
 
I bet all the fights in the White Room were serious and he had never seen anyone as dumb as stabbing themselves with a knife, he still predicted that, attack redirection is nothing in front of it. And I don't know how he will use force from a literal knife as well.
 
I have said this many times, how can you assume that he would be able to predict moves he has never seen in his life...
What part of body movement do you not understand? He will legit see he will spin around to kick him, You are talking like this is some sort divine technique complete and utterly unpredictable which it isn't when Jack knew what he would do
 
That's basically saying that because Daniel has resisted Chuck's Anpr, he can resist Koji's too since they both work with reading your opponent.
Ayanokouji's AnPr isn't just "reading your opponent" (and if you think that it is, this is going nowhere) while Attack Redirection is an attack with secondary intentions. This is a very bad comparison between two things.
 
Funny how his reasoning was a 1 sentense vote and is against the rules
Proceeds to count FRA votes that aren't even one sentence long
Read the rule i sent
It's legit a vote with reasoning and you have to count them too.
Because i legit gave a fking 10+ line reasoning which you still did not counter,
I did, I typed out as much stuff (if not more) as you.
He said a 1 vote sentence which is against the rules and is supposed to be discarded
He gave reasoning. He didn't just vote Daniel. It's literally the same as FRA'ing. Why count the votes of ppl who have not given reasoning for Koji but not count votes of people who have given reasoning for Daniel? You know how bad that sounds right?
Reporting because someone broke the rules and i just pointed it out?
You're the one breaking the rules cuz you're not counting votes for one side while counting votes for the other.
Wtf, Are you serious??

You guys are really just gonna ignore all this to your convinience and accuse me?

AP and LS - Daniel has the advantage here by a long shot, But this is irrelevant if he cannot hit or grab Koji who is an evaside fighter

Skill - Koji stayed all of his life in the white room learning martial arts from 4 years old to 14 years old which means he fought 15k fights in total with 3 fights per day, There he learned more than 20+ martial arts total ranging from Karate, Boxing Jeet Kune Do, Judo, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Taijutsu, Aikido with Jeet Kune Do and Taijutsu being composite martial arts and weapons to professional degrees, Koji has fought with people who were stronger and faster than him such as their instructors who are professionals in their own field, Koji also has high knowledge about pressure points due to the white room training, Is capable of adapting to opponents really quickly who were previously beating him, Able to copy someone by absorbing visual and verbal information, Learned archery overnight by watching tutorial videos, Said it himself that he was capable of fighting Tsubasa Nanase even with his eyes closed and Ibuki too, Can gauge the opponent strength by mere glancing and know what martial arts they are using with a glance, Has a perfect record of victories against a professional fighter, Could win against 6 fighters at the same time who Ayanokouji stated himself they were stronger than him physically, Is tremendously more skilled than Manabu who is a martial arts genius who has 4th dan where it needs 15+ years to reach this level of mastery in aikido and 5th dan where it needs 20+ years to reach this level of mastery in karate while being only 18 years old, Is massively superior to the likes of Ichika Amasawa due to much harder curriculum and should have learnt the abilities of likes of Ichika much before. Can determine each and every possibility to visualize the future to some extent. Ayanokouji was able to determine that Manabu was aiming to throw his sister when he was still pinning her and even asked him to confirm it, on hearing the predictions, Manabu also asks Ayanokouji on how was he able to figure out what he was trying to do. Ayanokouji can out-predict his opponents after he completely understands their upper limit, this has been displayed when Ayanokouji misreads Ryuuen's upper limit and then corrects it, it has been confirmed when Tsukishiro and Shiba deliberately tried to hide their abilities to prevent Ayanokouji from gaining an advantage. However, He can use his intuition to read his opponents and also determine their abilities as well. Ayanokouji also analyzes Hōsen from the sides and predicts that he was aiming to harm himself, something which cannot be predicted from the posture Hōsen was in, Defeated Tsukishiro, an Assassin that was once hired by a Prime Minister, who he admitted was on his level. Held off Tsukishiro/Shiba who are both White Room agents or instructors, Tremendously more skilled than Ichika Amasawa and Takuya Yagami who did the 5th level of the white room who are vastly superior than Manabu in skill, Stated to have flawless strategies, Able to see through his opponent's plans, Ayanokouji is also able to purposely feed false Habits, Timing, Patterns, Body movement to his opponents such as when he did with Tsukishiro who could read 99% of Koji's mind, Is also no stranger to dodge while having limited space while using 1 hand, Can kill his presence. He also followed several people without being noticed

Experience - Ayanokouji has more experience in dealing with fighters who are stronger and faster than him physically such as his instructors when he was a child and the 6 fighters he fought, Has more than 15k fights under his belt with alot of variety of martial arts to professional levels and weapons too, Ayanokouji also has experience in being in disadvantagous situations to the point it's normal to him

He can outpredict his opponents who have high levels of ANPR;

Albert < Suzune < Manabu << (Stomps) Ichika << (Stomps) Takuya <= Yuki = Shiro < Tsukishiro <<< (Obliterates) Ayanokouji in ANPR

UI Daniel however has not shown to be able to outpredict nor resist someone as skilled as Ayanokouji
Yeah this is pretty much some yapping that has no relevance to my argument. Idk what you're expecting me to say here. I've already stated why I think Daniel would bypass Koji's Anpr despite not being as skilled as him.
 
Yeah this is pretty much some yapping that has no relevance to my argument. Idk what you're expecting me to say here. I've already stated why I think Daniel would bypass Koji's Anpr despite not being as skilled as him.
Where? I actually am curious to see that icl.
 
Yeah this is pretty much some yapping that has no relevance to my argument. Idk what you're expecting me to say here.
Yapping?

You did not counter any of this which Daniel has no answer, You are voting Daniel because of bias because of this comment
I've already stated why I think Daniel would bypass Koji's Anpr despite not being as skilled as him.
No one in Lookism reaches Koji level of ANPR and again, Attack reflection won't work because he uses a knife, He will get stabbed
 
What part of body movement do you not understand? He will legit see he will spin around to kick him, You are talking like this is some sort divine technique complete and utterly unpredictable which it isn't when Jack knew what he would do
It's a technique Koji has never seen before, therefore it should be some divine technique for him.

Jack just jumped in the way of his attack and he literally got hit lol, something Koji can't really afford to do.
Ayanokouji's AnPr isn't just "reading your opponent" (and if you think that it is, this is going nowhere) while Attack Redirection is an attack with secondary intentions. This is a very bad comparison between two things.
It's legit not. Both Chuck's and Koji's Anpr pretty much operate similarly (with Koji's Anpr being more complex according to his profile). Daniel's Attack Reflection is straight up an attack Koji has never seen before. Assuming he can predict it without prior knowledge is wank.
 
Proceeds to count FRA votes that aren't even one sentence long
Didn't know this was 1 sentence long?

After reading the entire debate. I will mention on the few things.

This thread just got a lot out of control. But the fact that UI Daniel can copy the entire skillset of Ayanokouji isn't debatable. Also, the fact that when both can copy each other isn't debatable.

Some mentions:
1. Daniel has better copying ability than Ayanokouji. Daniel's ability is observing a move for once and then doing it instantly. Ayanokouji is the same. To address the misconception raised in the thread, Ayanokouji's ability is not just restricted to skiing, he himself mentioned that it applies to sports in general, and martial arts was extensively included in the White Room curriculum, so almost all the physical moves (which aren't normally physically impossible) should be able to be copied by Ayanokouji. Still, Daniel takes the win for copying abilities, because whatever can be said, his copying is backed up by a supernatural element which would be concrete.
2. Ayanokouji unarguably outskills to oblivion. Skills isn't only martial arts or techniques; it includes the application of it as well. Skills is battle knowledge + battle experience. So, while UI might help Daniel to certainly copy his every move (i.e., battle knowledge), he cannot copy his experience. Ayanokouji himself mentions his fighting experience as "countless" and we do have calculations from his statements about him being in 10s of thousands of fights, which is simply not just worth comparing to Daniel's experience.
3. Ayanokouji's battle IQ is vastly a major flaw for Daniel. Ayanokouji's Information Analysis, first of all, comes in handy a lot. We do know that Ayanokouji analyzes movements, but the extent of his analysis is crazy. There was one time when he was planning to go shooting, and he missed, but he didn't blame his aim, he was sure that he was doing it very well, instead, he said that there were a millimeter-level of discrepancies in the gun manufacturing, and that was the reason why he missed (here). So, when he missed the target, it is actually the gun's fault, he even pointed it out when observing others while shooting. He can also point out really small differences, like once he pointed out that Tsukishiro was moving 2 degrees faster than before, that's like saying that your opponent was like 2 kmph faster than before.
Second thing is Ayanokouji's Analytical Prediction. While yes, Daniel does have the resistance to Analytical Prediction, he cannot resist Ayanokouji's because it is completely different from the general type of prediction which he resists. Ayanokouji has the prediction ability of being able to analyze his opponents' upper limits, which allows him to gap their strength and he just predicts their attacks. There's no narrative stating about how it works, but his feats in the fight with Tsukishiro and Shiba greatly show it. He can predict the attacks which come directly out of the corner of his eye, while he does have enhanced awareness and can detect presences around him, he mentioned that the reason why he dodges Shiba's attack was because of his "intuition", and he even predicted Tsukishiro's attack which did come in the future (here).

However, considering how Daniel's ability might work, and his advantages on the other hand as well, I also would say that this also has chances of going inconclusive.

I will mention that considering Daniel's abilities, both somehow would have the same techniques and knowledge as Daniel would just copy his opponents. Both have similar advantages like Daniel can oneshot while Ayanokouji would have the same advantage due to having a knife. So, the fight is mainly outhaxxing and who uses their intelligence best, which I think Ayanokouji has an advantage in for now.
It's legit a vote with reasoning and you have to count them too.
"Voting Daniel" is not reasoning
I did, I typed out as much stuff (if not more) as you.
You didn't
 
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