The Ultra Series Discussion Thread: Unleash! The Power of Imagination!

[Mr.Cutlery]

Actually yeah, you know what? It makes sense, I was more worried about how that would mess up scaling too much. Then I remembered, Empera required Phoenix Brave, Zoffy and the Specium Redoublizer to fully defeat during the finale. So yeah, I guess.

And really, I have no problem with Belial being stronger than Empera.

 

[Tripleaccel555]

Well Tiga Dark has a statement in the databook of requiring Ginga during the first season to use his full power to defeat. Similar to how Gua Spectre has a statement of requiring Ginga Victory to use his full power to defeat. And during the Ginga special with Dark Zagi they basically implied that Tiga might have a chance against Zagi who was basically stomping Jean Nine who has a statement of being superior to Base Zero if I remember correctly. I’ll go over the others later

Thanks. I hope there some information how big the gap Heisei Era Pre Zero (Tiga- Max ) to New Generation Heroes ( Ginga-Z)

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah this also shows how ridiculously powerful Reibatos revive buff is. Juda Spectre being revived by Reibatos was able to beat Pre-Omega Armageddon Era Base Zero who is way more powerful than he was during the Mega Monster Galaxy Era when he beat Belial who is more powerful than Alien Empera.

Seriously what is it with Tsuburaya making copies and revived soulless versions of characters being stronger than the original?

 

[Peter1129]

But yeah anyway there’s kind of a scaling problem now that we know Alien Empera is comparable to Juda Spectre.

So Juda Spectre nearly defeated Victory Knight who is more powerful than Base Ginga if he didn’t start dual wielding.

Base Ginga defeated Dark Zagi who is stated to be much more powerful than Kaiser Belial who defeated Base Zero.

Base Zero defeated Belial during the events of Mega Monster Galaxy who is more powerful than Alien Empera.

Alien Empera is equal to Juda Spectre who is stronger than Base Ginga. So now the scaling is

Alien Empera = Juda Spectre > Base Ginga > Dark Zagi > Kaiser Belial > Base Zero (Mega Monster Galaxy Era) > Base Belial (Mega Monster Galaxy Era) > Father of Ultra (Mega Monster Galaxy Era) > Father of Ultra 40000 years ago ≈ Alien Empera = Juda Spectre

So yeah there’s a scaling problem now

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Well, Delta Rise Claw either has space-time manipulation or reality warping on a minor level now.

 

[Peter1129]

Yep seems like it. Although technically doesn’t every Ultraman have that? Cause Leo and Zero’s double flasher could create a hole that allowed Zero to escape the dimension in the Darkclops side story. And this episode shows Z could also stop a dimensional crack using his beam. And I think there was another example of Agul’s beam stopping a distortion.

 

[Peter1129]

Btw is anybody hyped for Ultra Galaxy Fight 2 tomorrow? Also whose ready for the scaling to become even more of a mess?

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

I am. And I've always been prepared.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah same. The scaling is gonna get so much crazier now since we are gonna have to scale between several Eras at the same time. One timeline is the one 40000 years ago during Alien Empera’s invasion. The other seems to be Pre-Omega Armageddon. And the last one is the Post-Taiga Era. And on top of that we also need to start scaling Powered, Great, Andro Melos, Joneus and etc in the current Era.

And I really hope Pre-Rayblood Belial doesn’t fight any of the current Era monsters or Ultraman. Cause otherwise the scaling will be completely destroyed. Since 40000 years ago before Belial got possessed by Rayblood he was only equal to Father of Ultra before awakening his True Power Mode. If he fights anybody in the current Era that would mean he is somehow stronger than Father of Ultra which makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Tripleaccel555]

Well Tiga Dark has a statement in the databook of requiring Ginga during the first season to use his full power to defeat. Similar to how Gua Spectre has a statement of requiring Ginga Victory to use his full power to defeat. And during the Ginga special with Dark Zagi they basically implied that Tiga might have a chance against Zagi who was basically stomping Jean Nine who has a statement of being superior to Base Zero if I remember correctly. I’ll go over the others late

What about Dyna - Max ? How strong their power compare to New Heisei Generation ( Ginga - Z )

 

[Tripleaccel555]

I'm not very shocked about Alien Empera , Judar , Ultra Father and Belial scaling. All of them is 3A to be honest.

Me and Akreious already discuss about this.

 

[Peter1129]

Well Pre-Rayblood Belial shouldn’t. It’s explicitly stated in multiple databooks and even the recent Ultra Galaxy Fight profile descriptions that Pre-Rayblood Belial is only comparable to Father of Ultra before awakening True Power 40000 years ago. True Power Father of Ultra who matched Alien Empera was also stated to be far beyond Pre-Rayblood Belial.

Also 3-B let alone 3-A might not even be staying. At least one staff said Juda’s statement about destroying the universe over an unknown period of time sounds more like spatial manipulation on a universal scale rather than pure power destroying the universe overtime. So unless Juda’s databook description mentions how he is destroying the universe in more detail tier 3 won’t be staying.

 

[Tripleaccel555]

I'm talking about Ultra Father sealed Belial Atrocious.

Here a post from Akreious.

Father of Ultra was able to hold Atrocious Belial in a shield for an entire day as well as physically hold him still even while Belial kept saying "You got rusty, Ken" which would imply Ultra Father in his prime was actually even stronger than when he performed this feat.

The Father of Ultra only lost because his wound from his battle against Empera was struck. Remember that Empera had a same wound on him from their original fight. The reason these two wounds didn't heal was because, although only conjecture, these two beings were total antitheses. Father of Ultra struck Empera with immense Light while Empera struck Father of Ultra with Immense Darkness; both of which are Anathema to eachother. These wounds probably didn't heal because it's like trying to heal over a cancer growth that stays relatively in the same location. Just wouldn't work.

Also yes, Father of Ultra was schooling Belial's ass hard originally. The wound strike was when the match got turned around. Belial literally stood no chance prior; with Father of Ultra at one point grabbing the Battlenizer and PULLING Belial in just to knee him harder.

Discussion thread from before

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Wasn't it explicitly stated that the spatial distortion was actually going to destroy the universe? I don't know about most of you, but I feel like the series has very particular ways of wording destruction of something like a universe.

Also, while I agree with the observation, it still feels superbly nitpicky and more about what must be taken into account as opposed to what's being portrayed as a whole within the context of that particular story.

 

[Peter1129]

What about Dyna - Max ? How strong their power compare to New Heisei Generation ( Ginga - Z )

Dyna has been, still is, and will always be stronger than Tiga. Even now he still has a statement of being superior to Tiga. And so far other than the Ginga S movie he has only appeared in Origin Saga which takes place before the New Generation Era.

Gaia V2 is still shown to be comparable to Multi Tiga and Flash Dyna during Ginga S. He’s honestly probably somewhere in between that lvl. Supreme Version is seemingly shown to be comparable to Power Tiga and Miracle Dyna. He hasn’t appeared anywhere else since Origin Saga so there really isn’t anymore scaling.

Agul V2 will always comparable to Gaia V2. That’s it. He doesn’t have any other forms.

Cosmos believe it or not is probably the current strongest Heisei Era Ultraman next to Zero. Luna Cosmos is often shown to be comparable to Base Dyna so it shouldn’t change during New Generation. Corona Cosmos is also pretty much comparable to Strong Dyna most of the time. Eclipse Cosmos on the other hand has no real feats other than tanking attacks from Etelgar. But Future Cosmos seems to be able to defeat Leugocyte in Ultra Galaxy Fight 2. And Leugocyte has a really long scaling chain.

Justice has no feats in the New Generation so far. And I don’t remember how strong she was during Cosmos’ series. So no comment

Nexus is also seemingly stronger than Tiga, Dyna, Gaia, and Cosmos at least in terms of Base form due to the tower climb statement saying the higher up the tower they go the stronger the enemy. Junis Nexus stomped Eteldummy Dark Mephisto who is supposedly superior to Eteldummy Five King since he was after Five King. Although this might not apply to Five King as it wasn’t actually in the tower. In Ultraman X, Anphans Nexus is also shown to be comparable to Base X.

Max is far stronger than Anphans Nexus, Base X and etc. He fought Alien Sran who was after Dark Mephisto in the tower and pretty much stomped him. He was also able to withstand attacks from Zetton Armor X, Zetton, and Alien Sran at the same time and his color timer still won’t start flashing. So Max being stronger than even Junis Nexus during the Ginga S movie is very likely a thing. He hasn’t appeared since than so yeah thats it. Now we wait for Ultra Galaxy Fight 2.

Mebius has the statement of being superior to Max during the Mega Monster Galaxy Era. And in the movie he fought Alien Empera who was also after Alien Sran. So Base Mebius is also very likely stronger than Max. Which makes sense since these days all members of the Ultra Brothers have been given a huge buff by New Generation. Burning Brave one shot Eteldummy Alien Empera who is superior to the original Alien Empera.

 

[Tripleaccel555]

Also, while I agree with the observation, it still feels superbly nitpicky and more about what must be taken into account as opposed to what's being portrayed as a whole within the context of that particular story.

I can explain about this but to be honest this is seems hard.

 

[Peter1129]

I'm talking about Ultra Father sealed Belial Atrocious.

Here a post from Akreious.

Father of Ultra was able to hold Atrocious Belial in a shield for an entire day as well as physically hold him still even while Belial kept saying "You got rusty, Ken" which would imply Ultra Father in his prime was actually even stronger than when he performed this feat.

The Father of Ultra only lost because his wound from his battle against Empera was struck. Remember that Empera had a same wound on him from their original fight. The reason these two wounds didn't heal was because, although only conjecture, these two beings were total antitheses. Father of Ultra struck Empera with immense Light while Empera struck Father of Ultra with Immense Darkness; both of which are Anathema to eachother. These wounds probably didn't heal because it's like trying to heal over a cancer growth that stays relatively in the same location. Just wouldn't work.

Also yes, Father of Ultra was schooling Belial's ass hard originally. The wound strike was when the match got turned around. Belial literally stood no chance prior; with Father of Ultra at one point grabbing the Battlenizer and PULLING Belial in just to knee him harder.

Discussion thread from before

I already mentioned this in the Post-Omega Armageddon scaling back on the second page of this thread. Also Father of Ultra doesn’t have a prime. His current state by the Post-Omega Armageddon Era is far stronger than he ever was in the past. His current state was even stated to be equal to Post-Omega Armageddon Era Zero. If it was back than during the Mega Monster Galaxy Era he would be considered far weaker than Zero.

Belial didn’t hit the scar on the right side. He hit his left side which doesn’t have a scar. Also the databook explicitly stated Belial is stronger than Alien Empera and all the Ultraman in the Land of Light sans Zero during the Mega Monster Galaxy Era. All that scene shows is that Father of Ultra is strong enough to fight and briefly overpower Belial, but in the end Belial is still superior.

Wasn't it explicitly stated that the spatial distortion was actually going to destroy the universe? I don't know about most of you, but I feel like the series has very particular ways of wording destruction of something like a universe.

Also, while I agree with the observation, it still feels superbly nitpicky and more about what must be taken into account as opposed to what's being portrayed as a whole within the context of that particular story.

Father of Ultra said Juda sought to destroy the universe by distorting space 50000 years ago. There was nothing explicitly saying he was destroying the universe very quickly in Ultraman Story. And in UFV they only said he might destroy the universe when he revives. So yeah everything depends on the databook description now.

 

[Tripleaccel555]

Dyna has been, still is, and will always be stronger than Tiga. Even now he still has a statement of being superior to Tiga. And so far other than the Ginga S movie he has only appeared in Origin Saga which takes place before the New Generation Era.

Gaia V2 is still shown to be comparable to Multi Tiga and Flash Dyna during Ginga S. He’s honestly probably somewhere in between that lvl. Supreme Version is seemingly shown to be comparable to Power Tiga and Miracle Dyna. He hasn’t appeared anywhere else since Origin Saga so there really isn’t anymore scaling

Did you forget about Tiga sealed Magatanothor and requiring Orb Origin to kill him ? Orb Origin with sword stronger than during his time team up with Dyna , Gaia , Agul and Cosmos.

Also how old the statement ? Because I don't think that will applied for current era.

tower climb

Source about tower climb is like a stage ?

 

[Peter1129]

Seriously what is it with you being so obsessed with Tiga? Dyna being superior to Tiga is a permanent thing. It’s one of the few things that will never change, unlike the Showa Ultras becoming stronger. Also even if they don’t have a statement it is clearly shown in Ginga S that Dyna is stronger. Tiga has to use Power Mode while Dyna only needs Miracle Mode against Five King. Which means Strong Type Dyna is above Power Type Tiga.

And like I said based on the scaling chain Orb Origin isn’t even that strong. Also Tiga already scales for Ginga, Victory, and X all of whom are stronger than Orb. Gatanothor is a scrub by New Generation. It is literally nothing impressive same with most of the other boss monsters from the old Eras like Zetton whose stronger forms like Hyper Zetton and Maga Zetton kept getting soloed with ease most of the time.

You’re gonna need to give me a few hours. It’s gonna take a while to find that statement since the other threads that have had that statement on Tieba has been deleted.

 

[Tripleaccel555]

Seriously what is it with you being so obsessed with Tiga? Dyna being superior to Tiga is a permanent thing. It’s one of the few things that will never change, unlike the Showa Ultras becoming stronger.

And like I said based on the scaling chain Orb Origin isn’t even that strong. Also Tiga already scales for Ginga, Victory, and X all of whom are stronger than Orb. Gatanothor is a scrub by New Generation. It is literally nothing impressive same with most of the other boss monsters from the old Eras like Zetton whose stronger forms like Hyper Zetton and Maga Zetton kept getting soloed with ease most of the time.

You’re gonna need to give me a few hours. It’s gonna take a while to find that statement since the other threads that have had that statement on Tieba has been deleted.

The issue is you always mentioned statement / databook but never posted that. That thing will become problem for me and peoples.

Give some information to us where you get that statement. Otherwise people will never believe that.

How did you know Orb weaker than Ginga , Victory and X ? Another statement / databook ?

 

[Peter1129]

Do you even see how many times on this thread I have posted the statements? You asked for the Eteldummy statement in the revision thread with King and I also posted it. I have never mentioned the Alien Empera being comparable to Juda Spectre statement even though I have known about it for months because up until recently I couldn’t find the statement for it. My rule is unless I specifically know a statement is real I will not mention it. As I don’t like spreading false information. Dyna being stronger than Tiga is a thing that was stated during the Heisei Era.

Also Dyna being stronger than Tiga is even a thing shown in the movie. Tiga used Power Type while Dyna used Miracle Type. Power Type wasn’t used and it’s supposed to be Dyna’s strongest form in power which means even now Dyna is still stronger than Tiga as his speed form Miracle Dyna is seemingly comparable to Tiga’s strength form Power Tiga.

Plus I don’t see you mentioning anything about Tiga having a statement of needing Ginga’s full power to defeat not being legit so double standard much? You clearly just have a bias for Tiga. But here’s the thing you should never let bias cloud your judgement on the scaling. I also like Tiga over Dyna but there isn’t really anything proving Tiga being superior to Dyna. All the feats and statements are pointing to the opposite.

 

[Peter1129]

Also most of the statements I listed in the scaling I posted on the second page of this thread was based on my memory. And I don’t have the time to find every single one of them and post it as I have stuff to in real life like exams. I will post the scans for most of the statements once the scaling thread is made. I can’t guarantee I will find all of them as some of them are really obscure and hard to find due to copyrights and stuff getting threads with the scans deleted. Especially the ones during the Ginga S. Since that was the series everybody hated almost nobody ever reposts the databooks and interviews for that series. It was a miracle I even managed to find the Eteldummy statement in just under an hour for you. But the statements during Ginga S honestly aren’t even that important compared to everything else. But other than that I should have no problem finding all the other statements.

 

[Tripleaccel555]

Also Dyna being stronger than Tiga is even a thing shown in the movie. Tiga used Power Type while Dyna used Miracle Type. Power Type wasn’t used and it’s supposed to be Dyna’s strongest form in power which means even now Dyna is still stronger than Tiga as Miracle Dyna = Power Tiga.

Where you get information about Dyna strongest form is Power Type ? Another databook / statement ?

Dyna Miracle is the his strongest form because more faster , versatile and hax.

Tiga strongest form is Glitter. Never be power type.

Do you even see how many times on this thread I have posted the statements? You asked for it in the revision with King and I also posted it. I know which statements are real and which are fake. I never even mentioned the Alien Empera being comparable to Juda Spectre statement even though I have known about it for months because up until recently I couldn’t find the statement for it. My rule is unless I specifically find a statement I either won’t post it or I will say there was supposedly a rumor.

Also most of the statements I listed in the scaling I posted on the second page of this thread was based on my memory. And I don’t have the time to find every single one of them and post it as I have stuff to in real life like exams. I will post the scans for most of the statements once the scaling thread is made. I can’t guarantee I will find all of them as some of them are really obscure and hard to find due to copyrights and stuff getting threads with the scans deleted. Especially the ones during the Ginga S. Since that was the series everybody hated almost nobody ever reposts the databooks and interviews for that series. It was a miracle I even managed to find the Eteldummy statement in just under an hour for you. But the statements during Ginga S honestly aren’t even that important compared to everything else.

Fine.

Hope you find statement and posted all of them as much as you can.

Random or not as long that statement is real regarding power level just please post that.

 

[Peter1129]

Power Type is like the name suggest Power. Miracle Mode has Hax and speed but in terms of strength Power Mode is superior. So if his speed form is comparable to Tiga’s power form this means his power form is above Tiga‘s power form.

Also you should realize by now that Glitter Tiga is not something he could use normally. The statements are talking purely about their normal, speed, and power forms. Base Dyna > Base Tiga doesn’t mean Base Dyna > Glitter Tiga. Heck if you want to statements that wank Tiga there was the Glitter Tiga being similar to Noa statement because the power of light is infinite or something along the lines of that.

And no we will not take all statements as truth. We will only accept the ones that don’t have any contradictions and actually fit the scaling. After all if we accept all statements we will have something ridiculous like universe Lvl Red King because of it having the grip strength to crush a universe statement.

Oh right also just so you know some of these statements like the one with Red King are also mentioned in stuff like Ultraman Retsuden.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

I just realized, Z's recent episode could probably be used to justify at least the Dimensional Eradication Bomb and King being Low 2-C.

 

[Peter1129]

Because Ultraman beams can stop dimension cracks or open holes in dimensions right? Or is it because the D4 was basically destroying reality by causing dimension cracks and the Dimensional Eradication Bomb is logically far superior to it.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Mostly the latter, which proves the scale of damage by EDB and subsequently proves for King, who actually has to fuse with the continuum instead of just the material plane.

 

[Peter1129]

So Ultra Galaxy Fight 2 Episode 1 is out and it seems like we already have some scaling.

80 was able to easily overpower Leugocyte in a beam struggle.

Max and Ribut are seemingly comparable at this point in time.

Great and Powered are gonna be training Ribut so they are likely gonna be comparable if not stronger than the current Ribut.

Although the problem is right now we don’t know what time period this took place in. At the beginning of the episode, Zero clearly said this was before the Ribut joined the Galaxy Rescue Force so we know it’s at least before Ultra Galaxy Fight 1. Although we also saw the tree from Origin Saga in the background on Planet Kanon this episode which means this story might possible be before Origin Saga. Origin Saga took place at least more than 4000 years before the Pre-Omega Armageddon Era. And we don’t exactly know how much time has passed between the Mega Monster Galaxy Era and the Early New Generation (Pre-Omega Armageddon Era).

So yeah I still have no clue what era this part of the story took place in. If it was sometime during the Mega Monster Galaxy Era than we will have another scaling problem since Leugocyte is far far far more powerful than the likes of Belial during the Mega Monster Galaxy Era based on his scaling. And yet 80 managed to overpower Leugocyte who is stronger than Mega Monster Galaxy Era Belial. Soooo yeah. I hope this is just some time during the Pre-Omega Armageddon Era and not a time period before that.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Well, considering that Zero has been implied to be Ribut's senior to some effect, that should at least be indication that this is way past MMB. We'll probably get more info with later chapters.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah guess we’ll have to wait and see. Also man the Ultra Brothers have all been given huge buffs. So 80 at this point in time (Which is still unknown) is far more powerful than Ruebe who is more powerful than Royal Mega Master Geed.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

I'm pretty sure portrayals indicate even if unlikely, that Ruebe and RMM are around the same levels. But yeah, any Showa Ultras would be around the levels of final form New Gens.

 

[Tripleaccel555]

I'm pretty sure portrayals indicate even if unlikely, that Ruebe and RMM are around the same levels. But yeah, any Showa Ultras would be around the levels of final form New Gens.

In Geed and R/B crossover

Ruebe = RMM.

In Ultra Galaxy Fight.

Ruebe >> RMM.

Ruebe beat Ultra Dark Killer and Dark Zero.

Dark Killer absorb RMM energy to made Dark Geed.

There also hint Tregear kidnapped Grigio to prevent them fusion into Greube.

 

[Peter1129]

We never saw Ruebe or Royal Mega Master fight the same enemy in the R/B movie so they never had any scaling to each other during the movie. Ruebe was fighting Snake Darkness before Tregear buffed him while Royal Mega Master Geed was fighting a casual Tregear. And later on they were both one shot by Tregear. We only learned of how they scale to each other in Ultra Galaxy Fight where we could clearly see that Ruebe > Royal Mega Master Geed since he defeated Ultra Dark-Killer who defeated Royal Mega Master Geed.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Yes I am aware of those, but at the same time, Ruebe was also empowered by Grigio who at the same time had damaged UDK considerably.

 

[Peter1129]

Oh right my bad. I completely forgot about Grigio being super op on top of being a super buffer.

 

[Tripleaccel555]

Yes I am aware of those, but at the same time, Ruebe was also empowered by Grigio who at the same time had damaged UDK considerably.

I don't felt agree about this.

Grigio has energy to healed Ultraman. There no statement about her can buff Ultraman into strongest.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah on second thought I agree with Tripleaccel here. I did a brief search and the only statements I found for Grigio are only about her being able to heal characters back to their full power. There are no mentions of her being able to buff anyone. So rather than a buffer she’s actually more of a white mage.

 

[Tripleaccel555]

And will become fighter and joined Zero group to fight Tautarus.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

I'm also going by what I remember. Then again, it could be the difference in power in the first place was because of the DarkKiller Zone the effects of which Grigio seems to have neutralized. Either way, while there's nothing indicating Ruebe and RMM comparable, nothing really contradicts, too. I'm going to have rewatch it to ensure I can still say the same about RMM vs DarkKiller.

 

[Peter1129]

All we were shown about their battle was that Ultra Dark-Killer was able to simultaneously fight Monster Armor X and Royal Mega Master Geed and block their attacks at the same time and than he absorbed their light.