The Ultra Series Discussion Thread: Unleash! The Power of Imagination!

[Peter1129]

Yeah that’s what I’m saying we should just use at least 3-A likely Low 2-C until this has been further discussed.

Also keep in mind when Tartarus fought Zero and Joneus he likely didn’t even have his full power. We know that he shared parts of his power with Belial and Tregear which allowed them to fight Base Zero. So unless the power he shared was a minuscule amount, this means that Tartarus wasn’t at full power when he fought the two. But yeah sucks that even now no other antagonist has shown any Low 2-C stuff.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Yep, my bad on that. I've updated it with a concession and hopefully we can get a response. That or we've been expected to take appropriate measures right after the last staff response.

That plus the only thing he really said is that Joneus could likely a problem, so it's still up in the air as to what exactly he can do.

 

[Peter1129]

Personally I don't think Joneus is like actually comparable to Tartarus at full power. I think Tartarus was holding back just to test how strong Joneus is and after the fight he believes that Joneus is a threat to the Kingdom and not specifically himself. And based on this toy promotion thing with what seems to be Zero's new form I guess Tartarus will defeat Shining Zero in Part 3 of UGF2. So yeah I don't know how I'd feel if Tartarus does indeed defeat Shining Zero and Joneus is supposed to be on par with him.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying, he never specified if Joneus was likely going to be a threat to him.

And toy promotion? I assume it's the one showing the Early Styles and Ultimate Aegis Shining Zero? Yeah, I'm honestly excited but at the same time, I'm not sure if it's really hinting towards a Shining Zero fight. That said, I hope that if it does happen, we see to what extent his time control really is.

 

[Peter1129]

Well this promotion thing was only released like a few days ago just before the second episode of the third part of UGF2. And in the ending of the third part of UGF2 we see Zero holding the Z Riser. So now some people are speculating that Shining Zero will be defeated by Tartarus and Zero will use the Z Riser to turn into Shining Ultimate (Or whatever the heck you call him) Zero to defeat Tartarus. And considering how the likes of Legend and King have appeared I wouldn’t even be surprised if Tartarus does indeed defeat Shining Zero now.

But honestly this seems kinda weird cause wasn’t there a databook statement that said Shining Zero is the perfect fusion of Zero and the Ultimate Aegis?

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

I don't have qualms with that theory I guess, but why speculate that the Z Riser has to come into play? If it does, why does he use that to turn into Ultimate Shining Zero?

Speaking of unexplored stuffs, I'm surprised nobody is hoping that Mebius Infinity would somehow show up again.

 

[Peter1129]

Well they showed the Z Riser in the Ed and this form seems to be a fusion of Shining and Ultimate so I guess they think the Z Riser has something to do with it.

True nobody ever talks about Mebius Infinity. I guess everybody just kinda forgot about it since it only appeared once.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Odd to see when the leaked catalogue ends up being right. Trigger is in fact, our next series.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Wait, its confirmed?

 

[Peter1129]

It’s been implied to confirmed for a while now. The image I posted a while back about Ultraman Trigger actually turned out to be part of the leaked trademark list. So Tsuburaya has seemingly trademarked the name Ultraman Trigger which they will only do if they will make something with that name. Like for example last year Ultraman Z was confirmed beforehand because the name was confirmed to have been trademarked on the list.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Well then, what we need now is the official announcement with Trigger first appearance

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Welp, snooped around a bit more again and found a couple things.

Greeza could likely apply for Type 5 Immortality. (Embodiment of the void itself; checks out with the criteria, "do not exist")

Tregear has Low-Godly Regeneration, plus Typer 4 and 8 Immortality. (Regenerates thanks to Grimdo, a coalition of souls; Cannot die as long as Grimdo is alive)

these guys would be fun to throw into matches

Edit: On this note, Taiga should have High Regen while Taro should get Low-Godly as well due to the Ultra Heart being more of a metaphysical thing rather than biological.

Edit 2: Now that I think about it, how do we treat DRC tearing Geed out of Greeza? Just super potent levels of NPI?

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

The more I revisit things, the more I realize how broken some of the Ultramons' abilities are.

Bullton in Z for example. By default, if we were to finish the episode just like that without total focus, you would think he was just affecting the building vanilla and just adding in the ridiculous stuff.

Well, yes and no. As Yuka revealed, all of STORAGE's base was turned into a specialized 4th dimensional or heck, space-time axis, meaning what we see was merely a simplified form of what Bullton can actually do.

It gets worse, or better, it depends. Again, Yuka says that within it, your subconscious can also cause abnormalities. Examples are sending yourself back 10 years prior, while still in that 4 dimensional pocket world. Another thing I could pick her up saying is that you can traverse dimensions within that pocket dimension. I could be wrong, but given how Bullton was supposed to stabilize the entire universe in the first place, I think the pocket dimension is in fact a whole universe or something to that effect. And Greeza was said to be the result of the stability being gone and would consume the whole world, well...

 

[Peter1129]

Final Form Greeza would also have Neronga and Alien Zarab’s abilities as their cyber cards were shown in the 24 hours in XIO episode which means XIO also possesses their spark dolls. So invisibility and shapeshifting. Also other than type 5, I think Greeza would also have type 4 immortality as he could also revive by resurrection on top of regeneration. Also we can’t forget that he has invulnerability to physical attacks due to being a void.

Tregear’s immortality would also qualify for Type 6 right? As he’s pretty much transferring his consciousness to a body of his from a alternate universe.

I’m honestly not sure if the Ultras with Ultra Heart should even have regeneration that high. Cause haven't they been killed and stuff by much weaker attacks that normal regen could save them from? Or am I just misremembering and they never really die when they are defeated?

I‘m not sure. What ability does unfusing things count as? Non-Physical Interaction (Nonexistent version) should be a thing limited to only Beliarok. As it’s said and shown that only Beliarok can hurt Greeza directly (Xlugger doesn’t count as that’s more like making Greeza half existent before hurting it).

So you’re trying to say possibly Low 2-C Bullton via stabilization or just pocket reality manipulation? Didn’t the stabilization standard just get stricter? Ehh I guess you could try bringing this up in the miscellaneous thread. But personally I think we should wait for the super complete works and what it says on Bullton. Cause right now it seems like Bullton is the one whose lore got changed the most in Ultraman Z.

Oh right should Bullton have Physics Manipulation? It did seem to make the world weird and stuff and Yuka and the others were flying and defying physics. Also just realized that even if Bullton dies it could maybe force an inconclusive in some matches as it basically summons Greeza upon death lol.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

I'd say Final Form Greeza should definitely have all of Daichi's used cards, and likely have those from confirmed Spark Dolls. And I suppose Type 4 should be eligible.

I believe so. I considered it but haven't yet added it. In any case, it should be reasonable.

I'm really not sure when it comes to Ultras being dead. Most cases of them being unable to simply regenerate is likely just PIS or something like that. It's just a possibility since the scan you showed before says that as long as Taro's Ultra Heart is intact, even if his body is in pieces, he can regenerate. Which is High-Mid, though.

Yeah that one's a problem. If only they had been clearer what DRC was actually capable of without Beliarok.

Possibly Low 2-C Bullton via also containing a 4 dimensional space inside of it, which it has shown full control over. There's still more that I'd need to extract from the context we were given, but yeah, I will try to see if it yields anything more. Yeah, Physics Manipulation is a definite go. So, you're saying we now have our own SCP-682? Damn.

Edit: How should we verify Zero's feat in Z #7 with the wormhole? Do we assume that Bullton's wormhole warps space and time as well? It seems logical, but could lead to some problems.

 

[Peter1129]

I see well you do what you believe is best for the Ultras regeneration. I’ll just see what other people think when the thread is made.

Well in story they said that DRC is only needed so they could go inside Greeza and grab the Beliarok without getting erased from existence. They never said anything about DRC affecting Greeza. So I guess maybe DRC just pulled out Geed who is still existent in comparison to Greeza who isn’t.

So of all the monsters that could possibly give a possibly Low 2-C its Bullton. Welp if this gets passed that means a lot of other Ultras and monsters will be Low 2-C in that case.

Well not really. SCP-682 forces an inconclusive because it just adapts and evolves. But Bullton could force one after death as it automatically summons something way stronger than itself after death. Wait reactive evolution... I kinda want to put IF up against SCP-682 now. Ehh who am I kidding 682 is more haxxed. IF will probably lose.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Will do.

Probably because of that then. Sucks for DRC on his own, but whatever.

It'd still be outlier for previous appearances due to those previous instances having no explicit mentions of that level of power.

I was also referring to how SCP-682's death could cause a universal collapse, which is what Greeza essentially is in a way.

 

[Peter1129]

Also this reminds me Ultraman Z Greeza should probably have a higher after absorbing Geed.

Wait I thought we are assuming that only Ultraman Z Bullton has this Low 2-C powers as previous Bulltons weren’t shown to have the essential part of the universe thing as part of their lore.

Ahh true that does sound similar.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Yeah, maybe.

Ah yeah, that's what I mean. It'd be outlier for previous encounters of Bulltons. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Peter1129]

Ahh I see. But yeah I feel like they honestly shouldn’t have used Bullton until now. Cause a 4th dimensional monster like Bullton losing to Ultraman because he was spinning made like no sense at all. Same with it being accidentally hurt by monsters it summoned and then killed by ZAP Spacy.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

They were simply trying to go for psychedelic effects back then, but at the same time, never quite considered the deeper implications of what such level of power could do. Good thing they finally realized that though. And yeah, the way previous Bulltons were destroyed seem very off now.

 

[Peter1129]

I wonder if in the future they will introduce a 5th dimensioned being. Cause they seem to be focusing a lot on 4th dimensioned stuff these days with Tartarus messing with time and Bullton literally sending Zero to the 4th dimension, stabilizing the universe, controlling space-time and sending people back in time.

So I wouldn’t even be surprised if later on in the future they finally introduce the creator of the ultra series as some kind of higher dimensioned being.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

They might, but I'm hoping that they'd explore things related to the 4th dimension first. I'm somewhat unprepared to get to that level, if I'm being honest.

 

[Peter1129]

True. Cause right now they barely even breached into tier 2. So yeah I’d probably prefer if they explored more stuff related to the 4th dimension before introducing some 5th dimensioned stuff.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Yeah, that's the problem, too.

In any case, I'll be making the question thread tomorrow, I'd still need to tweak its wording and how its presented so it doesn't seem like I'm manipulating, omitting, or cheating about what Bullton can and could potentially do.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah you do that. I guess I’ll just make the multipliers thread after you make the threads then.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

5th dimension monster

What next? 6th dimension monster with the title "demon king of sixth heaven"?

I also interested with the 4th dimension lore so i hope they gonna expanding it in future, and wew Bullton is not a joke, why i said this is because back in Fighting Evolution Rebirth Bullton was consideres weak there in gameplay lel

 

[Peter1129]

If I remember correctly there was a 4th dimension episode in Ultraseven. Cause if I remember correctly Alien Icarus (You know that alien that’s a fusion part of Tyrant) is supposed to be an alien from the 4th dimension or something along the lines of that.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

why i said this is because back in Fighting Evolution Rebirth Bullton was consideres weak there in gameplay lel

I just thought he was all hax because of it. Pissed me off is what he did.

And yeah, they did say Icarus is from the 4th Dimension. Of course, nothing yet has come from it.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Without over blowing things, shouldn't all Ultras technically have Low-Godly and Type 8 for those with hosts? Low-Godly because we know the true them are the ones in their Inner Space and as seen with Z, his whole body was pretty much destroyed by the D4 Ray, yet both he and Haruki survived it somehow. Reminder that Inner Lights have essentially been confirmed and consistently portrayed as their soulspace. And for those with hosts, like with Haruki and Daichi, the Ultras are capable of rescuing them at the moment of their physical destruction and the hosts can just transform again.


On that note, I should probably ask around and see if instances where the hosts are also injured in the Inner Space could technically count as soul damage for those who can do that amd resistance for the Ultras being damaged.

 

[Peter1129]

On one hand Low-Godly sounds reasonable enough. But on the other hand they have never shown any regeneration that high and have been heavily injured or killed by attacks that they logically should be able to regenerate from if they have regen that is that high.

To me it seems more like as long as their inner space/soul thing is still there they could resurrect rather than regenerate.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

So in short, it seems fairer to assume it's a form of Immortality Type 4 and 8 at all times. See, this is why Ultras need to have clear instances of regeneration and not be limited to techniques, like the Dynamite ones.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah pretty much. And for real like they really should show some high level regen that are not limited to Dynamite techniques.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

I don't know how we missed this, but all M78 Ultras should have some level of Soul Manipulation. How else would the Monster Graveyard be filled with them? Doubles as NPI since they'd have to bring them after they've destroyed the body. And if 80 is any indication, they should be able to damage and destroy them as well.

Also, was there even anything about Reibatos that could be found?

 

[Peter1129]

Well there’s this which says that Reibatos uses the soul of monsters to revive them as ghost monsters.

His Super Complete Works profile also says he revived them as ghost monsters using their soul.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Hmm, given their insistence on using "ghost monsters", I'd assume that while their physical bodies are restored, it is still needed that their souls be affected before they can be defeated. In which case, it's sort of the same with Reibatos. Given the nature of Reionics and how they operate, I'd say that should be enough to warrant it. Thanks for the scans.

 

[Peter1129]

No problem. Btw are you gonna make the miscellaneous abilities revision thread or should I make my multipliers revision thread first? Cause after tomorrow I should have time to compile and make the multipliers thread. So I was wondering which should be posted first.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Well the abilities thread can wait for the time being, since I'd still need to find more info about them.

I guess you can go ahead first.

 

[Peter1129]

Alright I’ll start compiling the videos and stuff tomorrow than. I really hope these get accepted.

 

[SunDaGamer]

I think I'm going to put references in the pages of some Ultra Series profiles... (I mean some of them say things like a character is heavily resistant to mind manip without any piece of evidence)