The Ultra Series Discussion Thread: Unleash! The Power of Imagination!

[Mr.Cutlery]

Damn, the stage shows have some ridiculous stuff.

Maybe. But then again, that's probably being reworked to fit in with the new stiff they're doing so Retsuden stuffs may see some changes.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah the stage shows were ridiculous. If I remember correctly one time the stage shows had both King and Noa being defeat and than Zero coming in to save the day. And there was another time where Zero and a bunch of other Ultras got their ass kicked and than Ultraman was revived to save the day. But yeah like I said some of the old stage shows are so weird that I didn't even attempt to watch them completely. But yeah I guess for now we should only consider this specific stage show about the formation of the Tri-Squad to be canon.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Definitely that last one then. I'm also reminded of that one stage show where Belial injured King. Still don't know the full context.

 

[Peter1129]

Anyways here’s the stage show on bilibili. Apparently it says Chapter 1. So this is like a miniseries so I guess the second chapter might also be canon.

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1pK411s7QE

I’ll slowly post translations here.

 

[Peter1129]

Also just a question do you guys want full translations of the stage show as in the dialogue and stuff translated or do you guys only want summaries of it?

Here’s an example of a full translation of the stage show I made for the first three minutes of the stage show. Tell me if you guys prefer the whole thing or just a summary of it. Once you guys decide I’ll continue translating with whichever method you guys prefer.

So the stage show starts with a bunch of Alien Magmas attacking Hiroyuki. After a short fight the Tri-Squad defeats the six Alien Magmas.

Taiga: This is what happens when you challenge us the Tri-Squad to a fight.

Fuma: Well. That’s because of me showing off my skills.

Taiga: No? It’s because of the beam I shot at the end.

Fuma: Man. Don’t you understand that I’m purposely giving you the chance to perform?

Taiga: What did you say?!

Hiroyuki: Hey calm down.

Titas: Seriously. You guys have not changed a bit ever since we formed the team.

Hiroyuki: Speaking of which. I don’t think I have asked yet. Taiga, how did you guys form the team?

Taiga: Oh, now that I think about it I haven’t told you yet. About the meeting of the Tri-Squad.

After that the scene ends with a black screen before starting with the words

A long time ago before Taiga and Hiroyuki met.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Oh, looks like there's gonna be a lot. Maybe summaries would suffice.

 

[Peter1129]

Alright summaries it is then. I guess I’ll post it all at once than. Give me about an hour or two at most three.

 

[Kamenriderblaze]

Yeah you’re gonna have to wait a while cause even I haven’t watched the stage shows yet. Cause I originally thought they weren’t canon due to how much it conflicts with the scaling and lore (Base Belial one shotting Alien Empera wearing Armored Darkness who was stomping Noa along with three other Ultras and Max being the first light in the universe and etc). But I guess starting from Taiga the stage shows are canon to the series. Which if that’s true means Tartarus won’t lose in UGF2 as the latest stage show a few days ago (Which takes place after Ultraman Z) has him alive along with Belial and Tregear.

So should we accept Belial’s statement from Ultraman Retsuden and make Joneus At least 4-B, possibly 3-A during the Showa Era?

Well not all stage show are canon
It more likely that they adapt some element from the stage show then actually canon

 

[Peter1129]

I know that. So far the only canon stage show is the Tri-Squad prequel. And this one actually didn’t have any host talking or audience participating whatsoever. So I guess this is what separates canon stage shows from non canon stage shows.

 

[Peter1129]

Anyways starting from where I left off.

A long time ago before Taiga and Hiroyuki met. On a certain planet.

Dorako and Eleking are causing destruction around the planet and the people of that planet tried to fight back but was defeated. Taiga appeared after hearing the call for help. But he’s still a newbie at this time so yeah he got his ass beat by the two. Mebius and Hikari arrived and proceeded to easily defeat the two monsters. After the battle Hikari said that Taiga is just a backup member and not an official member of the Inter Galactic Defense Force so he didn’t have the freedom to just go do whatever he wants as he almost got killed due to his recklessness. Mebius said if Taiga wants to be officially accepted into the Defense Force he’s gonna have to talk to Taro about this.

Scene changes and now they have returned to the Land of Light, Taiga asked Taro if he could become an official member but was denied saying he‘s too early and still needs to go out and see the vast world. After that Taro have a speech about how he and Tregear created the Taiga Spark together using his memories about the humans on Earth. Taiga due to being a brat at this time was like pft who wants to have bonds with those weak creatures. Taro tells him he will again great power when he finally finds the bonds he needs. Taro than says he has already talked to his old friend on U-40, Joneus to accept Taiga as a trainee.

On U-40, Taiga met Titas who he described as an annoying muscle head. Now we see Titas sparring with Joneus. And as you all would’ve guessed Joneus easily defeated Titas without getting serious. After that Titas asked why Joneus accepted a guy as weak as Taiga even if it’s a request from the Land of Light to which Joneus replied everybody has potential within themselves but they just need the key to unlock it. He says the key to Titas’ potential is likely on Taiga.

After that Zett suddenly appeared (Don’t ask me where he came from I have no clue at all as I don’t think the previous stage shows are canon). He seeks to fight strong people and thus challenged Joneus to a fight (This likely takes place after before Crisis Impact as the Planet Invasion Union is still a thing even though by Ultraman Orb the leader Mephilas was killed by Juggler. And we know it’s after Origin Saga due to Orb’s words at the end of the stage show). Anyways Zett challenged Joneus to a fight and is actually doing rather well. He’s strong enough to make Joneus get serious and he summoned Zetton, EX Zetton, and Zetton Alien Baltan to fight Titas and Taiga who decided to join in after noticing the commotion. After a while Joneus told Titas to go to some cavern (Don’t know how to translate the name of it sorry) to get something.

Scene changes to the cavern where Titas and Taiga finds the Wise Man’s Sword which has the ability to seal evil energy. But neither Titas nor Taiga were able to pull it out by themselves. The three Zettons that Zett summoned has also managed to catch up to them. After a short fight between them the two Ultras decided to pull out the sword together and they did. This also seemed to have scared away the three Zettons. After that there was a short talk between Titas and Taiga where Taiga said it seems like Taiga really is his key.

Scene changes back to Zett and Joneus. Seems like they were evenly matched at the time before Titas and Taiga arrived. Zett says his goal is the become the strongest creature in the universe which made Joneus pity him. After which when Titas and Taiga arrived with the Wise Man’s Sword, Joneus and Titas stopped Zett which allowed Taiga to stab and seal Zett with the sword. Taiga asks what happened to the sword and Joneus says it’s likely gone forever due to how powerful Zett’s darkness is. After which Taiga invites Titas to go on a training journey with him. Joneus recommends that they go to O-50 and train at Warrior’s Peak.

Scene changes once again to the O-50 universe. Here a small Planet Invasion Union army of Alien Groza and two Alien Magma led by Alien Baltan arrived at O-50 where they met and are now fighting Fuma. And there was another alien which I forgot to name of that was trying to snipe Fuma but was taken out by Taiga who just arrived. After that Baltan recognized him as Taro’s son which pissed Taiga off as he doesn’t want to be known as the #6’s son. After that the aliens retreated and Taiga got into a fight with Fuma with Titas being the mediator. Titas wanted to help but Fuma denied their help and decided to chase after the aliens himself. Soon after Orb appeared before Titas and Taiga and told them that Fuma isn’t really a bad guy and then says he’s gonna go chase the aliens and asked them what they are gonna do.

Scene changes to Warrior’s Peak where the Planet Invasion Union explained their goals of destroying the Warriors peak to stop more warriors from appearing to Fuma. Fuma is now really angry as this is where he trained with his master Gerg who according to the voice drama is implied to have gave his life to Fuma and allowed him to become an Ultraman at Warrior’s Peak. Anyways Baltan used some kind of ninjutsu which created clones of him and started to overwhelm Fuma alongside the other three aliens. Taiga appeared and saved Fuma which caused the aliens to briefly retreat. And then the two of them got into a fight again. This time Orb told Titas to let them fight so they could grow closer. After they fought the Alien Invasion Union suddenly came back with reinforcement in the form of Beam Missile King, Kamisori Demaaga, Deathfacer and Ace Killer. Before they started fighting Titas shared his energy with Taiga and Fuma. Titas than said they should introduce each other which Orb agreed with and thus Fuma also decided to do. After that they started to fight.

Orb fought and defeated Deathfacer and Ace Killer. Titas fought and defeated Beam Missile King and Kamisori Demaaga. Fuma fought and defeated Alien Magma and the other alien that I forgot the name of. Taiga fought and was getting beat up by Alien Baltan, Alien Groza, and Alien Magma. Fuma saved him and says now he has repaid the favor. Taiga than used his Strium Blaster and defeated Alien Groza and Alien Magma while Alien Baltan ran away. Taiga invites Fuma to join him and Orb says it’s bad manners to deny the request of the heroes of O-50. After which Fuma agreed and the three of them left. Now only Orb is left and he told them to cherish their bonds as he couldn’t have such a relationship with Juggler.

Scene changes to a random place in the universe after they received the Taiga Spark. After which they decided to form the Tri-Squad which was a name that Taiga already came up with at the time. After that they said their famous lines and the flashback ended. Now back to the present with Hiroyuki and that’s about it.

 

[Kamenriderblaze]

Yeaah i just watch full and check the wiki
Suprizingly this is legit the first canon stage show that show the tri squad past

 

[Kamenriderblaze]

But the newest stage show is again non canon

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah I realized that once I saw only the Tri-Squad prequel stage show has no host and audience interaction.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I found it funny that while Taiga and Titas fought the other Zettons, Fuuma was left to fought Hyper Zettons and get his a** kicked

 

[Peter1129]

Honestly though other than Titas who was doing rather well against EX Zetton and Zetton Falx, it seemed like both Fuma and Taiga were getting their ass kicked by Hyper Zetton and Zetton respectively.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Taiga got his a** kicked by normal Zetton is kind of hilarious, then again there is Maga Zetton too so him got overwhelmed is understandable, it just Fuuma that i found it funny

And i also love how they adapted U-40 environments in live-action, and Joneus new suit are cool as heck

 

[Peter1129]

Taiga is supposed to be the youngest and weakest among the Tri-Squad so him getting beat is kinda understandable. Pretty sure it’s just two normal Zetton not Maga Zetton. Maga Zetton‘s chest light is blue greenish not reddish orange. But yeah sucks for Fuuma to fight the strongest Zettons despite only being the second strongest in the Tri-Squad.

Yeah the adaptation is great. Joneus’ new live action suit is way better than his old live action suits.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Eh, really? Then my sight fooled me again for numerous time

Understandable, the old suit was like 41+ years old and its kind of goofy, the new suit not only made him cool as heck and perfectly fit with Reiwa era but also 100% anime-accurate

 

[Nicetoderp]

Wondering about something. Is Max’s profile properly updated? Wondering cause I’m surprise that we don’t have Baltan profile yet

 

[Peter1129]

We don’t have a Max profile yet. Same with Baltan. The revisions aren’t even over yet so we are holding off on making profiles. Heck we haven’t even updated the current profiles or the verse page due to this.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

We don’t have a Max profile yet. Same with Baltan. The revisions aren’t even over yet so we are holding off on making profiles. Heck we haven’t even updated the current profiles or the verse page due to this.

Basically this, mind you that the supporters for the Ultra Series are not that massive unlike Kamen Rider, with only five of us active here and yet only two that are actively do a overhaul (i wanted to but i got a limitation in IRL and my phone so f**k me )

Doesn't mention that almost some of the staffs are unfamiliar with it so another factor for so slow progress

 

[Peter1129]

Btw do we also need a thread to get the multipliers accepted? Or are we allowed to just use the multipliers without it being looked over by the staffs?

 

[SunDaGamer]

Btw do we also need a thread to get the multipliers accepted? Or are we allowed to just use the multipliers without it being looked over by the staffs?

I'm pretty sure we need to get a staff member to review it

 

[Peter1129]

Ahh dang it. So that’s another revision we have to go over after the tiering revision is over.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

After having read the sandbox for the Stabilization profile, I think it's safe to say that it won't affect King's tier to the point that will take away his rating.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Rewatching UFO, and I think by now, I am convinced that a lot of these Ultras have casual soul damage attacks. Or at least, non-physical interaction. Reibatos consistently calls the monsters he revives as ghosts, and I doubt they are fully reanimated too since Zero outright states that he can't sense life signs from them.

I'm also aware at one point Orb says their attacks aren't working, and I believe that was merely a case of them having essentially infinite stamina.

Gomma check Mega Monster Battle movie as well to see if the same can be said for Belial's monster army.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

I'm gonna keep posting in case I don't forget.

So, suppose that the Waterfall of Time chapter of the UFZ novel is made canon, should we give Zero resistance to time manipulation for having to swim through literal time itself? He needed to overcome it, and the more he went, the more memories got back to him indicating that he was going through his own lifespan.

On another note, would it be necessary to give Greeza Abstract Existence as well? And what would it be? Having no corporeal form would obviously warrant Type 1, but he is the void itself, embodying that abstraction, would Type 2 fit better?

 

[Peter1129]

About Reibatos I could try and see if there were any statements about Reibatos’ resurrection ability. Though from UGF2 it seems like Reibatos could also choose if he wants to completely revive something as shown with Alien Bat.

When Orb says his attack wasn’t working you’re talking about his fight against Mecha Gomora or Reibatos? Cause against Mecha Gomora it just seemed like his fusion forms just aren’t strong enough to deal the damage that could harm it. While against Reibatos he lost in Orb Trinity because he couldn’t dish out damage faster than Reibatos could regenerate.

Pretty sure the novel is canon. It’s supposed to be a novel that’s released for Zero’s 10th anniversary.

Well looking at the page now I think Greeza does indeed fit the description of abstract existence. But yeah I’m not sure what type it would qualify for.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Ah, right, I somehow forgot that.

I was referring to the initial team up with Zero. But I did consider that, too.

So, possible time resistance for Zero then?

Greeza is definitely not an avatar. But yes, we'd still need extra input before we can fully decide on it.

 

[Peter1129]

I guess possible time resistance for Zero is fine.

Yeah we should definitely do that before giving him a type for abstract existence.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

This is mainly as a note to self, but I think Dark Lugiel's corruption is actually much stronger than we thought.

Given how Inner Lights or Spaces are pretty much confirmed to be the visualization of souls, I am positive that Dark Lugiel is capable of corrupting both mind and soul. That, plus the surprisingly constant visual keys when it comes to corruptions seems to imply such. Not to mention the usage of Shintoism as a somewhat subtle means of showing that.

In short, Dark Lugiel should likely have both Mind and Soul manipulation. This might also hint to Ginga and possibly most subsequent Ultras having notable level of resistance to both haxes. Attacks that turn opponents into Spark Dolls should be changed to Sealing.

 

[Peter1129]

So I finally found a compilation of Great and Powered statements. And huh seems like there was more statements than I thought there'd be. Also I found the USA, Zearth, Neos and Seven 21 compilation as well. Joneus sadly only has the strongest in U40 statement during Showa. Zearth has absolutely nothing comparing him to any previous Ultras. Same with the USA Ultras. The only thing important in the compilations is that Shadow is stronger than Pre-Training Zearth. And among the USA Ultras, Scott is the strongest. For Great, Powered, Neos and Seven 21 there are these

There’s actually another statement where Powered’s beam is actually straight up stated to be about 5x stronger than Ultraman's beam. Though there also seems to be a Powered being 10x Ultraman statement. But considering how there is two 5x statement and only one 10x statement I think we should take the 5x over the 10x. So yeah we have a direct comparison between Powered and Ultraman now.

Also I found the japanese scan of Great being the strongest Ultra at the time of his series.

Seven 21’s beam is stronger than Seven’s beam.

Neos and Seven 21’s double kick is more than 4x stronger than their individual kick. Mensch Heit tanked their double kick multiple times and was only defeated after they did a combo beam. So Mensch Heit would be 4x stronger than they are individually as they also did this under an amped state.

Mensch Heit at least 4x> Seven 21 > End of Showa Seven

Also I think I’ll probably make a sandbox of Zero’s revised profile later today or early tomorrow.

 

[Peter1129]

This is the sandbox that I have for Zero right now. Basically updated all the tiers and added some new abilities. Too lazy to add the techniques and stuff for his other forms.

Peter1129/Sandbox3

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

I definitely missed or forgot something. We're actually going to go by the scaling that Empera is around Juda's level?

I mean everything around Pre-Crisis Impact is perfect though. It's the prior keys that's worrying. I'm more than willing to accept the statements, but I'm also worried about stats inflation.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah we are probably going with the statement that Alien Empera is the strongest enemy in the Ultra Series at the time of Mebius. It is a rather consistently stated thing after all.

Strongest enemy in Ultra history. And in one of the databooks they even stated that the Juda stuff mentioned in Ultraman Story that happened 50000 years ago actually happened and is canon in Ultra history.

And once again strongest enemy in Ultra history.

And now Ultra world (aka the Ultra Series) strongest enemy.

And even though its inconsistent the directors also believe Alien Empera is stronger than normal Juda and is comparable to Juda Spectre so once again Alien Empera > Juda.

Greatest danger in the universe.

In this databook Armored Darkness (Which is equal to Alien Empera) possesses a 6 in power, while Grand King only possesses a 5. Also in the same databook U-Killersaurus and Giga Khimaira also possesses a 5 just like Grand King.

Also before 2010 Phoenix Brave Mebius is considered Mebius' strongest form not Mebius Infinity. And Armored Darkness who is equal to Alien Empera is stated to be comparable to Phoenix Brave Mebius.

Phoenix Brave Mebius >= Armored Darkness = Alien Empera > Mebius Infinity > Super Taro > Grand King > Juda

So yeah pretty much everything point towards Alien Empera being superior to Juda and is even wanked by the director themselves to be on par with Juda Spectre.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Alright, I guess Empera being 3-A is a given then. Admittedly, I did also forgot about Armored Mephilas losing to Hikari. But just to be clear, that's from the Gaiden, right? I'm still iffy as a "possibly" seems more fitting in this case due to the lack of direct comparison and because it was somewhat of a vague power-up in the first place even if from Empera himself, but overall, the rating itself doesn't clash with anything.

Edit: Redacted. Ignore.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah Armored Mephilas losing to Hikari was from the Mebius Gaiden: Ghost Rebirth. I mean unlike Gloker Bishop who is stated to be the strongest robot and has no direct connections to Grand King (Which is why I decided to only give it, Cosmos, Justice, and Giga Endra a possibly 3-A). Armored Mephilas is directly stated to be the Armored Darkness reincarnated on top of being stated to have the same level of power as Armored Darkness. And we also see that Armored Mephilas can defeat Base Gomora who could somewhat put up a fight against Armored Darkness.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Not sure if or how it would affect the Ghost Rebirth version, but wasn't the MMB: NEO version somewhat weakened thanks to Ultraseven wearing it? 3-A scales directly to Seven in that case, but maybe not completely for the midseason Gomora during that time.

 

[Peter1129]

Don't we normally assume they are at least as strong as previous versions of the character unless stated otherwise to be weaker due to Tsuburaya having the habit of bringing characters back stronger than before? And the statement about Armored Mephilas being equal to Armored Darkness seems to be talking about Armored Mephilas in general and not the specific one in MMB:NEO. The one in MMB:NEO seems to be labeled RB while the one from Ghost Rebirth is labeled G. The statement didn't mention any version and only said Armored Mephilas possesses power equal to Armored Darkness.

Gomora was actually fighting somewhat equally with Armored Darkness even before Seven weakened it. But overall he's somewhat comparable and could survive attacks from Armored Darkness and Armored Mephilas without being one shot. And Armored Darkness is stronger than Grand King who is stronger than Juda who is baseline 3-A so Base Gomora would still be somewhere around baseline 3-A for being able to somewhat put up a fight against Armored Darkness.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Well, I did say that. I noticed the labels too, and I actually am fine with Armored Mephilas scaling to A.Darkness given that he is the resurrected form of a full powered A.Darkness.

I believe this one to be a matter of portrayal. It may not be clear throughout the fight, but Seven's influence is still present inside of A.Darkness. It is still personal opinion on how the scene was handled though.