The Ultra Series Discussion Thread: Unleash! The Power of Imagination!

Peter1129 · Jan 1, 2021

Anyways I have made the thread. Come and give your input guys.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/ultra-series-tiering-revision.110852/

Edit: Also I just realized how dumb I was trying to find a logo for the series.

Ultraman Series

The Ultraman Series (ウルトラマンシリーズ, Urutoraman Shirīzu), also more widely known as the Ultra Series (ウルトラシリーズ, Urutora Shirīzu), is a long-running franchise created and produced by Tsuburaya Productions. Starting from the series' 55th anniversary, three distinct eras have emerged to describe the...

ultra.fandom.com

The Ultraman wiki literally has a logo that says Ultraman Series. Feel kinda bad for making Mitch render it and not using it but I’ll be using this logo for the main page instead as it literally says Ultraman Series.

Peter1129 · Jan 2, 2021

So uhh will anybody else give their input on this thread.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/ultra-series-tiering-revision.110852/

Also just a heads up there will be no new episode of UGF2 this week due to New Years.

Mr.Cutlery · Jan 2, 2021

@SunDaGamer @Veloxt1r0kore @Tripleaccel555

You guys have anything to say? More input from you guys can help give it more traction.

Another thing would be which staff member should we contact in case an immediate response is needed?

Mr.Cutlery · Jan 2, 2021

Should we also create a new discussion thread soon? Maybe after TAC ends? We're very close to 700 and it's getting quite cluttered.

Peter1129 · Jan 2, 2021

Nah there’s no need. The threads on the new forum is infinite. Other threads have gotten over 6000+ replies and is still using the same thread.

Mr.Cutlery · Jan 3, 2021

Alright then.

Also, I'm gonna revise my Tregear sandbox sometime soon and I was wondering if he could technically qualify for having soul resistance. And on that note, do you guys think he'd qualify for any other form of resistances?

And speaking of these special abilities, Reiga should probably have soul destruction thanks to completely destroying Grimdo, who is literally made up of countless souls as said in Tregear's novel. Extended question would be whether his components can scale. Which, doesn't work that way, right?

Peter1129 · Jan 3, 2021

I’m not sure what type of resistances Tregear would qualify for. Also why soul resistance? Is it because he resisted sealing Grimdo into his body?

Yeah I don’t think components should scale to the fusion. If it’s a thing that only the fusion has shown than only the fusion should have it.

Also question how should we treat the other red power forms that don’t have multiplier statements like Strong Type Dyna, Corona Cosmos, and Strong-Corona Zero? Should we just assume it’s also a several times multiplier like Power Type Tiga, Supreme Version Gaia, and Junis Nexus? Cause half of the red power forms are considered several times stronger than their base forms. And Dyna‘s form change is supposed to be based off of Tiga’s form change while Cosmos’s Luna and Corona form are his equivalent of Speed and Power Form as shown with Zero‘s two forms (Speed and power) being a mix of Cosmos‘ Luna form and Corona form as well as Dyna’s Miracle Type and Strong Type.

Mr.Cutlery · Jan 3, 2021

Technical soul resistance because his soul I believe is protected by Grimdo as shown by how he could replace himself everytime he dies. Then again, thinking about it, seems too vague.

Just wanted to make sure.

I guess assuming multipliers would work, but maybe not by several times since very often portrayals past their debut have their base modes being close enough that it doesn't make the fights too easy. At least when it comes to the Strength-Balanced-Speed guys, but with the likes of Corona and SV, that much difference should make sense.

Peter1129 · Jan 3, 2021

Isn’t that more so Type 6 immortality (Like Funny Valentine’s D4C) rather than soul resistance?

I don’t think there are times when their strength forms aren’t considered a huge gap from their balanced form. Like Dyna was straight up one shotting and stomping monsters in Strong Type when he couldn’t do that in Flash Type during Origin Saga.

Mr.Cutlery · Jan 3, 2021

It is. Oh wait, I think I remember what I was initially thinking of, it's that Tregear somewhat retained his individuality and wasn't entirely affected when Grimdo entered him. As in his own soul wasn't overpowered immediately, and he hel out long enough for him to put on the ~~bondage gear~~ restraint.

Well, I suppose there's that. I did mostly base my own reasonings on their in-series portrayals. In that case, treating it similarly with multipliers should be reasonable.

Peter1129 · Jan 3, 2021

Ahh well I guess that should be fine.

To be honest even in series it has mostly been shown that the strength forms could stomp or overpower monsters that their balanced forms can’t defeat. Like Bizorm from Tiga was able to block Multi Tiga’s Zeperion Beam with electricity but Power Tiga was able to resist the electricity and rip off its hand. And Cosmos’ Luna Form was stated to be equal to the transformed Alien Baltan from the First Contact Movie while Corona form straight up stomped that Baltan. Dyna also showed the huge difference between forms such as against Neosaurus who was basically stomping Flash Dyna but was one shot by Strong Dyna when they decided to clash beams.

Peter1129 · Jan 3, 2021

Also nevermind. I decided to look for more Dyna statements since I realized I searched on the wrong thread with less statements on Dyna’s series. And as it turns out Strong Type Dyna also has a several times Flash Type Dyna statement. And Corona Mode is shown to be Cosmos’ equivalent of Dyna’s Strong Type while Zero‘s Strong-Corona is a mix of them both. So they should also be considered several times their base. So basically almost all the strength forms have a several times statement.

Mr.Cutlery · Jan 3, 2021

Huh, I legitimately forgot about those instances. Also, isn't Bizorm from Gaia?

But since you've already found the statements then it's pretty much okay to go with.

Peter1129 · Jan 3, 2021

Ahh sorry I meant Bizaamo. They both start with Biz and has a m somewhere in their name so I got them mixed up.

Yeah. Strength/power up forms being several times their base form seems to be a rather consistent thing in the series. Exceed X is also considered several times Base X which is consistent with Exceed X defeating EX monsters while Base X is capable of defeating normal monsters. And EX monsters are considered several times normal monsters.

Anyway should I go over the list of multipliers in the series?

Mr.Cutlery · Jan 3, 2021

Sure, go ahead.

Peter1129 · Jan 3, 2021

Mr.Cutlery · Jan 3, 2021

We've already this discussed this many timea before so I myself don't have much to add anymore. Only things I'll comment on is that Mega Specium Ray is only 5x stronger than the normal one so assuming EoShowa Ultraman might be inflated to a degree because of the lack of direct continuity. But then again, we've already accepted similar things for Heisei. And with that small scaling chain with Etelgar, wasn't he kinda confirmed to be slightly weaker than Zero? He's survived attacks from even Ultimate Zero yes, but he always seems to avoid direct confrontation.

I might be wrong but I think it said that Photon Earth's power is only nearly 2x. Might seem inconsistent with what Tregear commented on, but at the same time, #15 kinda showed that it was pretty much useless. And seeing as the only time we see Atrocious use Atros Burst was after being weakened and the statement using that scene in particular, it's safe to say that Belial Atrocious is naturally that much stronger than Geed, and I think you've mentioned such, too, so yeah.

In any case, everything looks good. Just waiting for what the others think.

Peter1129 · Jan 3, 2021

It’s actually also stated in the databooks that Etelgar is comparable if not stronger than Ultimate Zero.

I’m just assuming it’s 5x Ultraman’s Spacium Beam since all the monsters that powered fought in his series are considered stronger versions of the monsters that Ultraman fought. So I assume they were originally trying to make Powered stronger than Ultraman and thus I’m assuming Mega Spacium being 5x Spacium Beam is specifically referring to Ultraman‘s Spacium Beam.

Etelgar has power comparable to Ultimate Zero. Etelgar has defense that not even Ultimate Zero could break. It’s also shown in the movie that Etelgar could deflect Ultimate Zero’s sword beam and tank his Final Ultimate Zero no problem. So Etelgar being comparable if not slightly stronger than Ultimate Zero during the Pre-Crisis Impact Era is a consistent thing.

Yeah forgot to mention that it said Photon Earth is nearly 2x.

Yeah that would just mean Post-Crisis Impact Era Belial Atrocious (Weakened) w/o King’s energy is 30x stronger than Primitive Geed.

Mr.Cutlery · Jan 3, 2021

So that means Etelgar constantly running away can be chalked up to plot necessity. Got it.

Oh no I'm fine with it being that way since the OG is the perfect base but to specifically use EoShowa as comparison is where my doubts laid.

Those last two are okay and it's been accepted here anyway, so not much else to add.

Peter1129 · Jan 3, 2021

Yeah either plot or because he knew about Shining Zero and didn’t want to risk fight that form. But considering how he didn’t know about Cosmos’ Eclipse form I’m leaning more towards plot.

Ahh i see. Well another reason I’m assuming end of Showa Ultraman is because Powered defeated Powered Zetton while weakened. And we all saw how a normal Zetton was beating up beginning of Showa Ultraman. Not to mention the gap between Zetton’s 4-B and Early Showa Era Ultraman’s High 4-C is 1114x.

Mr.Cutlery · Jan 3, 2021

Most likely.

Oh, well then the assumption does sound sensible now. I actually forgot to account for Zetton's own beyond baseline stats.

Peter1129 · Jan 3, 2021

Yeah I originally also wanted to make Powered just 5x Ultraman during his own series but than I remembered Powered Zetton and Zetton’s 4-B was a thing.

Also this would mean the Heisei scaling chain got even longer. Since by the end of Showa, 4 Ultra Brothers are considered comparable to the Leo Brothers that would mean by Leo, they are either half as strong or roughly as strong as Leo who is stronger than Taro who is 20x stronger than Ace when his series first came out. So

4 Ultra Brother (Zoffy, Ultraman, Ultraman Jack, Ultraman Ace) ≈ Leo Brothers (Leo and Astra (Technically Babarue but he was able to defeat Astra so they should be comparable)

Leo > Taro 20x> Ace

Powered 5x> End of Showa Ultraman ≈ 10x Ace (During his series)

Mr.Cutlery · Jan 3, 2021

I think roughly comparable would be right. Leo didn't want to fight thus he'd have to hold back some of his own power, but he was still protecting "Astra" whom the brothers planned on killing so there was no way his durability would have been completely down and yet he was still pretty much being tossed around and nearly died by their combined beam attacks. So roughly comparable if you ask me.

Still though, really wished they didn't go so wild with the multipliers.

Peter1129 · Jan 3, 2021

I see so we assume by the end of Showa all the Ultra Brothers is somewhat comparable to Taro.

It’s not really like they went crazy with the multiplier but more like they went crazy with the scaling on top of the small multipliers. But hey at least it’s not dragon ball where just by using super saiyan multipliers with the scaling made them billions of times baseline 3-A/Low 2-C. Ultra Series being in the thousands to millions of times baseline before moving onto another tier is not that ridiculous.

Oh right also I actually messed up the Showa scaling in my original post.

Ultra Brothers Tournament Part 1 and Part 2

Round 1:

80 vs Seven = 80 win

Taro vs Ace = Taro win

Leo vs Jack = Leo win

Zoffy vs Ultraman = Zoffy win

Round 2:

80 vs Taro = 80 win

Leo vs Zoffy = Zoffy win

Round 3:

80 vs Zoffy = 80 win

So by the end of the Showa Era, Zoffy was the second strongest Ultra Brother. And Leo was the third.

Mr.Cutlery · Jan 3, 2021

Seems like it.

And yeah, that.

Good god that thing is what could trigger a civil war. Good thing not everyone knows about it. But damn, 80 being the strongest is honestly pretty nice to hear.

Peter1129 · Jan 3, 2021

Well it’s Tsuburaya. Up until Ginga all Ultras have been stronger than the last (at least in terms of base form). Only reason Ginga wasn’t was because Zero was a thing. So 80 being stronger than all the other Ultra Brothers by the end of Showa isn’t really that surprising. Not to mention there have been tons of statements about 80 being stronger than Leo and the Ultra Brothers at the time of his series.

Peter1129 · Jan 4, 2021

So anyways I decided to start compiling the scaling and stuff in a new sandbox. And wow I just realized that Greeza alone made the 3-A scaling jump by quite a bit due to absorbing at the very least 22 EX monsters to evolve into its final form.

Peter1129/Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

Mr.Cutlery · Jan 4, 2021

Why is the scaling for the Ultra Galaxy Era compiled alongside the 3-A ones?

Peter1129 · Jan 4, 2021

Did you forget it's because by the Ultra Galaxy Era (Or according to the Ultraman wiki Galaxy Crisis Era) everybody is stronger than Alien Empera due to Armored Mephilas being equal to Armored Darkness. Hikari basically beat up Armored Mephilas by himself. Also this sandbox is just compiling how far into the tiers the characters are not the era.

Mr.Cutlery · Jan 4, 2021

Ah, okay then, in that case. I was just confused for a bit there.

Peter1129 · Jan 4, 2021

Anyway I think I am now done with the scaling. I'll edit the format, order and stuff tomorrow. Cause right now the tier 3 stuff looks really messy. I didn't include Reiga and Reiwa Era Super Taro as I have absolutely no idea where they would scale as they are a fusion of High 3-As but should by all means be stronger than baseline Low 2-C to an unknown degree. I'll probably post this scaling thing as a blog once the 3-A/High 3-A/Low 2-C stuff is accepted.

Peter1129/Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

Mr.Cutlery · Jan 4, 2021

How will things like the Plasma Zero let be treated in accordance to the scaling? A separate note on the character's tiering?

Reiga is going to be Low 2-C anyway and Reiwa Super Taro might be one of the few to have a likely or possibly higher given his latest appearance. Reason being we know it should be far beyond his normal capabilities but he doesn't have any direct scaling yet and exhausts Taro in order to destroy both Juda and Mold. But in order of that scaling, yeah, not sure where to put them either

Actually, will there even be any who would have any likely/possibly keys either indicating "higher" or "Low 2-C"?

Peter1129 · Jan 4, 2021

Personally for me I would just write stronger after gaining power from the Plasma Spark on his base key. Cause we know that Post-Plasma Spark Zero is stronger than Pre-Plasma Spark Zero but it’s unknown how much stronger he got so it likely doesn’t warrant a new key.

Yeah Reiga would be Low 2-C without a doubt. We just won’t know roughly what lvl of Low 2-C he would scale to. Super Taro should honestly just scale to Reiga though. Like Taro might be weaker than Tri-Strium Taiga but Ace is stronger than Delta Rise Claw Z who is stronger than Galaxy Rising Geed who is stronger than Ultimate Final Geed which is one of the components of Reiga. So overall I would just say they are comparable as some of their components are weaker than the other while some are stronger than the other. Also I would just chalk up Super Taro being out of energy after firing one beam due to plot. Cause Super Taro in Ultraman Story didn’t get incredibly weakened after firing Cosmo Miracle Beam on top of a whole bunch of other beams. Ginga Strium was also perfectly fine after firing the Cosmo Miracle Beam even when he was already all beaten up by Hyper Zetton.

Grimdo would probably be the only one that gets Likely Low 2-C as it scales way above High 3-As but we don’t know if it scales to Base Zero. Though he really should hence likely. Woola probably wouldn’t even get a Possibly Low 2-C as it only stomped a weakened Tri-Strium Taiga and never fought Taiga at full power.

Mr.Cutlery · Jan 4, 2021

I meant Plasma Zero let, for Taiga and Tri-Strium.

I guess it is.

I honestly feel Grimdo should be outright Low 2-C since he had mention of destabilizing the space-time of a universe. But like said, no direct scaling might make that inconsistent.

Peter1129 · Jan 4, 2021

Oh that. I would just write High 3-A w/ Plasma Zero-let for Base Taiga as he could overpower Reiwa Era Tregear’ s beam. For Tri-Strium Taiga it would be Low 2-C w/ Plasma Zero-let as he destroyed Imit-Belial who is comparable to the real thing who is baseline Low 2-C. Yeah Plasma Zero-let is easily the most powerful of all the bracelets.

Yeah so sadly as much as it makes more sense for Grimdo to be straight up Low 2-C, it’s safer to only make it Likely Low 2-C.

Mr.Cutlery · Jan 4, 2021

As I'd have suspected.

Correction on my part, Grimdo only threatened the balance of the universe, but there's also mention of Planet Volhes having distorted space-time. At least he'd still have some level of justification for being so close to Low 2-C.

Peter1129 · Jan 4, 2021

Yeah I guess having some lvls of space-time distortion is better than having nothing. Anyways gonna go to sleep now c ya.

Mr.Cutlery · Jan 5, 2021

How many hax does Z have?

The best we have are: non-physical interaction (doubles as NE Physiology null, I think that's where it falls), Absorption (cancels out beams with Existence Erasure and Space-Time Fracturing), amd possibly BFR (Deathcium Slash portal version, since it looked like it absorbed the ferris wheel cart after Z blew it off). But even that requires Beliarok. The best other we have is minor space-time manipulation with all forms but only to close up fractures. Gamma Future does have offensive capable portals, by going inside enemies at least.

All in all, Z seems more anti-hax if anything. Now what about resistances? I can't quite think of anything and that's kind of concerning.

Peter1129 · Jan 5, 2021

Yeah if anything Z seems more Anti-Hax than Hax to me. Those are also the only ones I can remember along with attack reflection via Beliarok spitting back whatever it absorbs.

Also there has been some news in the Chinese fandom about the new Ultra. Apparently it’s gonna be another Letter Ultra. Alright I’m calling it now it’s gonna be Ultraman Y.

Mr.Cutlery · Jan 5, 2021

He better be Yeehaw'in

But really though, in the off chance Taguchi was serious, at least give him a proper name instead of just Y.

The Ultra Series Discussion Thread: Unleash! The Power of Imagination!

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