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The two wings of the Pirate King fight

GodlyCharmander

GodlyCharmander

He/Him
5,744
4,998
Let's put up a show, shall we?
14gE3Ce.gif


"Now you've done it, you marimo!":
"What was that, shit cook?":
"CUT IT OUT ALREADY!!":
 
The_man_with_the_Midas_touch said:
Following.

Can someone clarify the speed and AP scaling for both?
Click to expand...
AP Scaling:
Zoro:
760 Teratons in base (Down scales from Base King w/ his sword), 1.032 Petatons w/ Buso (Equal to King's Buso infused imperial flames which are >> Base King who scales to 1.032 Petatons), Higher when unleashing Enma or with Haoshoku Infusion (Stronger than his prior usage which can cut through Zoan Kaidou's scales and damage him), far higher with En-Ō Santōryū (Combined unleashing enma with haoshoku infusion. With one attack he cut through King's strongest attack, King's wing, Buso infused sword and badly wounded him)

Sanji:
760 Teratons in base (Scales above his prior self who down scales from Hybrid Queen who scales above his base which scales to 760 Teratons), Higher with Diable Jambe (Can badly wound Hybrid Queen and destroy his robotic parts), Far higher with Ifrit Jambe (Combines his physical strength, enhanced speed, exoskeleton and buso. Far stronger than Hybrid Queen, sent him flying off Onigashima with his Beef Burst attack)
Click to expand...
Speed Scaling:
Zoro:
5.33c in base (Can intercept Big Mom & Kaidou who scale above Zoan Queen who scales to 5.33c, Can match Base King who can tag Zoan Marco who scales above zoan Queen) with higher reactions (Can react to base and zoan King with his flame off who moves FTE to Zoro's combat speed), Far higher with Iai Attacks (Blitzed King who's reaction speed scales to his flame off speed & Imperial Deep Pride Stake which blitzed Zoro's reactions)

Sanji:
5.33c in base (Scales directly to the 5.33c calc), higher with Diable Jambe (Far faster than base form), far higher with his enhanced speed (Moved FTE to Hybrid Queen who at first believed he was invisible) or Ifrit Jambe (utilizes his enhanced speed and diable jambe, could land 10 consecutive hits on Hybrid Queen without him able to respond)
Click to expand...
 
Zoro can also likely use Asura, which as of now is 3x Buso Zoro but even when that is removed it still scarred and tanked hits from Hybrid Kaido
 
I think Zoro wins due to his reaction speed being almost definitely enough to tag Sanji, not to mention his Iai attacks being easily above Sanji in speed, to say nothing of Zoro's absurd AP advantage.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Asura is not 3x anymore.
Click to expand...
I know that but it's technically still on the profile and the CRT changing the Zoro sword scaling hasn't come out yet.

Even so, it still scarred and tanked hits from Hybrid Kaido even while Zoro was badly injured, not to mention that Zoro was weaker than current Zoro.
 
Zoro has the AP advantage with Buso which doesn't really tax his stamina much at all to compared to base, and even then his durability even without buso will allow him to defend against Sanji's attacks without much issue; he also has the benefit of having swords to defend with compared to Sanji who has to use his own body which will allow Zoro to avoid damage far better. And assuming Zoro's Buso AP isn't enough (Keeping in mind it will also grow stronger throughout the fight like it did in the King fight) he can further amp it heavily either by unleashing Enma or using Haoshoku or combing them, or using Asura etc.

Sanji's durability with his exo-skeleton or buso sort of get negated here for two different reasons. Zoro's buso potency scales above Sanji's and thus the defenses (even against sharp objects) that buso would grant Sanji would be nullified due to Zoro's buso. Sanji's exo-skeleton's resistance to blunt force and blades works similarly to Daz Bones (Minus the regen) meaning assuming Zoro's AP wouldn't be enough if he utilized Goken it would allow him to cleanly cut through Sanji. The Exo-skeleton's regen that actually heals wounds like cuts etc is too slow acting to be relevant in the fight but I guess if Zoro cuts through Sanji's bones he should be able to repair them.

Zoro's own heat resistance & Buso's heat resistance should be enough to completely resist Sanji's Diable Jambe flames and although it wouldn't resist Ifrit Jambe completely he should still be able to mitigate it's heat some what due to Buso as Sanji's own buso was partly responsible for allowing him to resist Ifrit's heat. Zoro also has the option of using Fox fire style to turn off Sanji's Diable or Ifrit Jambe temporarily if necessary.

Base Zoro and Diable Jambe Sanji should be comparable in speed based on their scaling chains, with Sanji's enhanced speed or Ifrit Jambe being far faster. Sanji's reaction speed would scale to his enhanced speed and Ifrit Jambe and Zoro's own reaction speed would scale around that level via reacting to King w/ his flame off, Zoro could combat being slower by using his skill similarly to what he did against Flame-Off King, his lai attacks would also blitz Sanji although Sanji's skill and prior knowledge of Zoro's techniques should allow him to anticipate it and avoid it.

In terms of Kenbunshoku usage they're both on the same tier, Zoro's buso is more potent and advanced and Sanji currently lacks any Haoshoku at all.

Honestly their versatility and combat skill could also be analyzed to see who's superior but with what I've currently brought up I feel Zoro wins this, so I'll vote for Zoro.
 
Yea Emin's argument is solid but imma wait to see the rebutal
It would be sad if Zoro (dedicated combat guy who mostly just trains all day and uses 3 swords as eternal cope for how untalented he was as a kid) can't beat Sanji (actually just the cook and holds back in every fight and uses no weapons)
 
Sanji doesn't have invisibility in this key, but yeah Intermediate Kenbunshoku has Neutral Vision which allows them to see invisible stuff.
 
Eminiteable said:
Zoro has the AP advantage with Buso which doesn't really tax his stamina much at all to compared to base, and even then his durability even without buso will allow him to defend against Sanji's attacks without much issue; he also has the benefit of having swords to defend with compared to Sanji who has to use his own body which will allow Zoro to avoid damage far better. And assuming Zoro's Buso AP isn't enough (Keeping in mind it will also grow stronger throughout the fight like it did in the King fight) he can further amp it heavily either by unleashing Enma or using Haoshoku or combing them, or using Asura etc.

Sanji's durability with his exo-skeleton or buso sort of get negated here for two different reasons. Zoro's buso potency scales above Sanji's and thus the defenses (even against sharp objects) that buso would grant Sanji would be nullified due to Zoro's buso. Sanji's exo-skeleton's resistance to blunt force and blades works similarly to Daz Bones (Minus the regen) meaning assuming Zoro's AP wouldn't be enough if he utilized Goken it would allow him to cleanly cut through Sanji. The Exo-skeleton's regen that actually heals wounds like cuts etc is too slow acting to be relevant in the fight but I guess if Zoro cuts through Sanji's bones he should be able to repair them.

Zoro's own heat resistance & Buso's heat resistance should be enough to completely resist Sanji's Diable Jambe flames and although it wouldn't resist Ifrit Jambe completely he should still be able to mitigate it's heat some what due to Buso as Sanji's own buso was partly responsible for allowing him to resist Ifrit's heat. Zoro also has the option of using Fox fire style to turn off Sanji's Diable or Ifrit Jambe temporarily if necessary.

Base Zoro and Diable Jambe Sanji should be comparable in speed based on their scaling chains, with Sanji's enhanced speed or Ifrit Jambe being far faster. Sanji's reaction speed would scale to his enhanced speed and Ifrit Jambe and Zoro's own reaction speed would scale around that level via reacting to King w/ his flame off, Zoro could combat being slower by using his skill similarly to what he did against Flame-Off King, his lai attacks would also blitz Sanji although Sanji's skill and prior knowledge of Zoro's techniques should allow him to anticipate it and avoid it.

In terms of Kenbunshoku usage they're both on the same tier, Zoro's buso is more potent and advanced and Sanji currently lacks any Haoshoku at all.

Honestly their versatility and combat skill could also be analyzed to see who's superior but with what I've currently brought up I feel Zoro wins this, so I'll vote for Zoro.
Click to expand...
Since you already showed Zoro's reasons, I'll be doing it for Sanji now:

In terms of Kenbunshoku I'd say that Sanji may be better than Zoro, similar to Zoro buso's being better than Sanji's. So in terms of speed and Kenbun Sanji has the right hand here. Plus Sanji has better overall mobility with Skywalk, which would help him a lot, since it'd difficult to Zoro to tag him in the air, even using his long-range attacks it would be hard, because he'd have to hit it, which is not goin to happen.

And in the same way Zoro's heat resistances would help him mitigating some damage of Ifrit Jamble, Sanji Exo-Esqueleton would help him a lot when resisting Zoro's attacks, since he could reinforce even more his skin with busoshoku, albeit his busoshoku being inferior to Zoro's. For this we have that moment where his Raid Suit was unphased by King, which is a pierce attack, but now after his awakening his resistance is far better than before.

For Sanji's attacks I don't have much to say, Ifrit damage would cause some really good damage on Zoro and with a better mobility + Kenbun, he probably would land more hits on Zoro. Albeit one hit of Zoro could be equivalent to all the damage caused before, I think.

In terms of skill they're equivalent, I don't think Sanji outskills Zoro, neither Zoro outskills Sanji, which makes this fight even better. The Zoro advantage would be the Haoshoku infusion, that would be able to cause some considerable damage to Sanji. I my opinion this fight could exented a lot, to the point where their stamina would dictate the result, but they're also comparable since now Sanji became one of the Germa monster, so seeing him tired is almost out of cogitation.

Since I'm fan of both characters I'm not voting for now. But since they're even in a lot of terms an incon is plausible in this match, or even a double K.O. Anyways, I don't know if Kachon will comment, but this is my guess.
 
While I still vote Zoro, since the Exoskeleton is above the Raid Suit (which tanked an attack from Zoan King with little damage) in durability, it'll require Zoro to use Buso and higher to damage Sanji.

That said, he has a lot of stuff to damage Sanji with and can tank basically all Sanji throws at him.
 
He can tank everything from Sanji and Sanji can avoid most of Zoro's attacks and can tank them too. But as I said, the outcome will depend on their stamina. The one that starts getting tired first is the one that will get K.Oed, and this is the part that makes me hold my vote.
 
Nanashi said:
Plus Sanji has better overall mobility with Skywalk, which would help him a lot, since it'd difficult to Zoro to tag him in the air, even using his long-range attacks it would be hard, because he'd have to hit it, which is not goin to happen.
Click to expand...
The issue with this is Sanji flying is no benefit to him, he has one ranged option which he never uses, ithas low range, is made of fire and isn't portrayed to be a very strong attack. This ranged attack can also easily be countered with fox fire style or just by blocking like Zoro did against King's flame bullets.

Sanji to attack will have to get in close range as that's his only reliable method of dealing damage, Zoro won't need to send unreliable ranged attacks in this fight all he needs to do is counter Sanji when he tries to attack.
Nanashi said:
And in the same way Zoro's heat resistances would help him mitigating some damage of Ifrit Jamble, Sanji Exo-Esqueleton would help him a lot when resisting Zoro's attacks, since he could reinforce even more his skin with busoshoku, albeit his busoshoku being inferior to Zoro's.
Click to expand...
I covered this in my first post but no the resistances granted by the exo-skeleton won't be effective here. Zoro early in the series learned Goken which will let him bypass the exo-skeleton's resistances. It's fully countered here.

Inferior Buso means it won't offer any defense against him, this is what happened to Pica, Sanji's buso won't be effective here.
Nanashi said:
For this we have that moment where his Raid Suit was unphased by King, which is a pierce attack, but now after his awakening his resistance is far better than before.
Click to expand...
Eseseso said:
since the Exoskeleton is above the Raid Suit (which tanked an attack from Zoan King with little damage) in durability, it'll require Zoro to use Buso and higher to damage Sanji.
Click to expand...
The exo-skeleton isn't above the raid suit.
Nanashi said:
but they're also comparable since now Sanji became one of the Germa monster, so seeing him tired is almost out of cogitation.
Click to expand...
Sanji literally passed out from exhaustion against Queen.
Nanashi said:
He can tank everything from Sanji and Sanji can avoid most of Zoro's attacks and can tank them too.
Click to expand...
Sanji isn't tanking anything from Zoro.
 
Honestly now with the upgrade that pre mink medicine Zoro just got, it probably would've been fairer to put Sanji against pre mink medicine Wano Zoro.
 
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