The two strongest 2-Cs from Dragon Ball Super duke it out

[Omegas03]

ah yes, the eternal scaling chain battle.

Vegito Blue (anime, ft-arc) vs Black Frieza (manga, granolah the survivor arc).

Both characters have the highest AP of their respective feat (3 universes), so yeah, who wins? Speed is equalized unless unequalizing it somehow makes things fairer.

 

[speedster352]

Who has the ap advantage here?

 

[BlastX]

Black Freezer actually has the scaling chain advantage here, by a long shot.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

I bet SSJ4 Gogeta has a higher scaling chain than both of em

 

[speedster352]

Black Freezer actually has the scaling chain advantage here, by a long shot.

Aren’t anime characters stronger than the manga characters in Dragonball super?

 

[BlastX]

That was because back then they scaled to an higher rating.

And it's different here, because Black Freezer has the same scaling chain that Vegerot Blue has and then a ten some, because the manga keeps the single Macroosm scaling all thorough, so Black Freezer has a much higher scaling chain.

Ok the Manga scaling chain might not be the same as the anime, but Black Freezer still has the much higher one.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

The Manga lacks the x10 Kaioken boosts, I wonder if it can make up for it tho

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

DBS Manga Scaling
2-C = Super Saiyan God Goku <<< RoF Base Goku

Super Saiyan Blue Goku: At least 2,500x

Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black: At least 125,000x (Overpowered FT Saga SSB Vegeta and then regained his divinity, adding SSG to his Super Saiyan form)

Post-HTC Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta: At least 6,250,000x (Overpowered SSR Goku Black as a Super Saiyan God even ignoring the momentary switches to Super Saiyan Blue)

Ultra Instinct Omen Goku: At least 125,000,000x (Matched Jiren, who is significantly superior to Super Saiyan Blue Goku using Kaio-ken power-stressing to push his body to its absolute limits, meaning 20x)

Super Saiyan Blue Vegito: At least 31,250,000,000x (Effortlessly vaporized Fusion Zamasu's arm in base form and is significantly greater than the combined strength of Super Saiyan Blue Goku & Vegeta based on Gogeta's words of how fusion works for the two)

Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta: At least 31,250,000,000x (Significantly greater than the combined strength of Super Saiyan Blue Goku & Vegeta in base form. Due to being born at a much later time and from a significantly stronger Goku and Vegeta, he should be superior to Vegito from the Zamasu Saga)

GPP Saga Ultra Instinct Omen Goku: At least 31,250,000,000x (Should be superior to Gogeta Blue if Goku opting for his untrained use of this form prior to being unable to use the full state means anything)

GPP Saga Ultra Instinct Goku: At least 62,500,000,000x (Took on Angel Moro, who possesses the combined power of Seven-Three Moro and Merus)

Post-First Granolah Fight Super Saiyan Blue Goku: At least 62,500,000,000x (Can somewhat keep up with Dual-Eye Granolah)

Post-First Granolah Fight Ultra Instinct Omen Goku: At least 1,250,000,000,000x

True Ultra Instinct Goku: At least 2,500,000,000,000x

DBS Anime Scaling
Suppressed Beerus/Super Saiyan God Goku - Baseline

God's Crimson Radiance Super Saiyan Goku - 50x

Post-Zenkai Base Goku - At least 100x

Post-Battle of Gods Super Saiyan Goku - At least 5,000x

Super Saiyan Blue Goku - At least 250,000x

Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black - At least 12,500,000x

Super Saiyan Blue Goku Post-Limit Break - At least 25,000,000x

Base Vegito - At least 50,000,000x

Super Saiyan Blue Vegito - At least 125,000,000,000x

Conclusion: Black Frieza scales above 2.5 trillion times 2-C and Super Saiyan Blue Vegito scales above 125 billion times 2-C

There is a 20 times strength difference, therefore Black Frieza one-shots

I highly recommend switching to Early ToP SSB Goku because by scaling he's over 50 times above Vegito Blue from the Zamasu Saga

 

[BlastX]

Huh, so Freezer has this in the bag, since unless Vegerot whips out Kaioken and make his fusion time shorter, he gets whooped...and even then it still might not be enough for a win since Goku only push it to times x10 around this time.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

DBS Manga Scaling
2-C = Super Saiyan God Goku <<< RoF Base Goku

Super Saiyan Blue Goku: At least 2,500x

Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black: At least 125,000x (Overpowered FT Saga SSB Vegeta and then regained his divinity, adding SSG to his Super Saiyan form)

Post-HTC Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta: At least 6,250,000x (Overpowered SSR Goku Black as a Super Saiyan God even ignoring the momentary switches to Super Saiyan Blue)

Ultra Instinct Omen Goku: At least 125,000,000x (Matched Jiren, who is significantly superior to Super Saiyan Blue Goku using Kaio-ken power-stressing to push his body to its absolute limits, meaning 20x)

Super Saiyan Blue Vegito: At least 31,250,000,000x (Effortlessly vaporized Fusion Zamasu's arm in base form and is significantly greater than the combined strength of Super Saiyan Blue Goku & Vegeta based on Gogeta's words of how fusion works for the two)

Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta: At least 31,250,000,000x (Significantly greater than the combined strength of Super Saiyan Blue Goku & Vegeta in base form. Due to being born at a much later time and from a significantly stronger Goku and Vegeta, he should be superior to Vegito from the Zamasu Saga)

GPP Saga Ultra Instinct Omen Goku: At least 31,250,000,000x (Should be superior to Gogeta Blue if Goku opting for his untrained use of this form prior to being unable to use the full state means anything)

GPP Saga Ultra Instinct Goku: At least 62,500,000,000x (Took on Angel Moro, who possesses the combined power of Seven-Three Moro and Merus)

Post-First Granolah Fight Super Saiyan Blue Goku: At least 62,500,000,000x (Can somewhat keep up with Dual-Eye Granolah)

Post-First Granolah Fight Ultra Instinct Omen Goku: At least 1,250,000,000,000x

True Ultra Instinct Goku: At least 2,500,000,000,000x

DBS Anime Scaling
Suppressed Beerus/Super Saiyan God Goku - Baseline

God's Crimson Radiance Super Saiyan Goku - 50x

Post-Zenkai Base Goku - At least 100x

Post-Battle of Gods Super Saiyan Goku - At least 5,000x

Super Saiyan Blue Goku - At least 250,000x

Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black - At least 12,500,000x

Super Saiyan Blue Goku Post-Limit Break - At least 25,000,000x

Base Vegito - At least 50,000,000x

Super Saiyan Blue Vegito - At least 125,000,000,000x

Conclusion: Black Frieza scales above 2.5 trillion times 2-C and Super Saiyan Blue Vegito scales above 125 billion times 2-C

There is a 20 times strength difference, therefore Black Frieza one-shots

Base Black held his own against Blue Vegeta and then in Rose clapped Vegeta and Vegeta later on claps SsjR black so doenst super have a higher scaling chain?

 

[BlastX]

Actually, this is a repeat of 50% Freezer vs Goku on Namke with the exact same difference in power.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Base Black held his own against Blue Vegeta and then in Rose clapped Vegeta and Vegeta later on claps SsjR black so doenst super have a higher scaling chain?

That is acknowledged with SSR being 50x stronger than the first instance of SSB and a later Goku being twice over that due to breaking his limits and overpowering the Holy Wrath

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Vegito still kinda blitzes once he uses any level of Kaioken

 

[BlastX]

That won't matter though, he can't do any meaningful damage to Freezer.

Plus it just make his fusion time get even shorter.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

That is acknowledged with SSR being 50x stronger than the first instance of SSB and a later Goku being twice over that due to breaking his limits and overpowering the Holy Wrath

SSR should be 2500x since it’s the divine version of blue and states to be as strong as blue

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

SSR should be 2500x since it’s the divine version of blue and states to be as strong as blue

SSR in the anime is simply Black's Super Saiyan form, and is stated to be that by both WoG and Goku & Vegeta themselves. Its 50 times his base form, which already stomped SSB Vegeta

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Plus, scaling Moro-Saga Omen UI above Blue Gogeta seems, pretty dubious

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Plus, scaling Moro-Saga Omen UI above Blue Gogeta seems, pretty dubious

This is directly after the Broly Saga and yet every opportunity after he regains it, Goku opts for Ultra Instinct Omen...seems pretty fair to me

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

SSR in the anime is simply Black's Super Saiyan form, and is stated to be that by both WoG and Goku & Vegeta themselves. Its 50 times his base form, which already stomped SSB Vegeta

That’s never stated in the anime and WoG states differently in his notes he states Goku Black has SSJ and a Ssj of a slightly different color which in the drawing shown is SSJR

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

That’s never stated in the anime and WoG states differently in his notes he states Goku Black has SSJ and a Ssj of a slightly different color which in the drawing shown is SSJR

That is directly contradicted by it being called a divine version of Super Saiyan and Black's Super Saiyan transformation

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

This is directly after the Broly Saga and yet every time, Goku opts for Ultra Instinct Omen...seems pretty fair to me

Goku and Vegeta also refused to fuse when they were about to fight Kid Buu, this seems to be due to their saiyan pride/desire to improve more than anything

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Goku and Vegeta also refused to fuse when they were about to fight Kid Buu, this seems to be due to their saiyan pride more than anything

That was directly stated

Here the more sensible explanation is y'know

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Not really, Broly is "probably stronger than Beerus", and Beerus was going to take care of Planet Moro himself before being stopped, so yeah

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Not really, Broly is "probably stronger than Beerus", and Beerus was going to take care of Planet Moro himself before being stopped, so yeah

I think that has more to do with Beerus' power being retconned every ******* arc LOL

Toyotaro moment

 

[speedster352]

That won't matter though, he can't do any meaningful damage to Freezer.

Plus it just make his fusion time get even shorter.

But giving at mftl speeds a few minutes isn’t bad at all and Vegito never plays around he would finish the fight asap.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

There's also the guidebook confirming that Manga Blue Vegito is stronger than Beerus, which would be consistent with Blue Gogeta easily handling Broly, so ehh

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

That is directly contradicted by it being called a divine version of Super Saiyan and Black's Super Saiyan transformation

When? I don’t recall this at all the anime is vague on explaining ssjr but the manga, guides, and wog give us the details quite nicely ssjr being as strong as normal ssj is headcanon

 

[speedster352]

Why not just use movie Gogeta he is canon to the anime and manga?

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Why not just use movie Gogeta he is canon to the anime and manga?

6 universes vs 3 it’s a stomp

 

[speedster352]

When? I don’t recall this at all the anime is vague on explaining ssjr but the manga, guides, and wog give us the details quite nicely ssjr being as strong as normal ssj is headcanon

I am pretty sure rose is just Goku black version of super saiyan blue

 

[GarrixianXD]

Considering how Frieza was capable of one-shorting both UI and UE Vegeta and obliterated the living outta Gas in his base I don’t see how Vegito even stand an ounce of a chance here.

 

[speedster352]

6 universes vs 3 it’s a stomp

What do you mean?

 

[GarrixianXD]

6 universes vs 3 it’s a stomp

Wait, how does Gogets scale to 6 universes?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Currently its accepted as being 50 times his base form (which is already insanely strong, which is why he can stomp Super Saiyan Blues)

 

[speedster352]

Considering how Frieza was capable of one-shorting both UI and UE Vegeta and obliterated the living outta Gas in his base I don’t see how Vegeta even stand an ounce of a chance here.

Vegito also the anime is way stronger than the manga suppressed Vegito blue was clapping corrupt fused Zamasu. Full power plus kaioken could help win this.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Currently its accepted as being 50 times his base form (which is already insanely strong, which is why he can stomp Super Saiyan Blues)

I thought multipliers doesn’t impact tiering

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Considering how Frieza was capable of one-shorting both UI and UE Vegeta and obliterated the living outta Gas in his base I don’t see how Vegeta even stand an ounce of a chance here.

Manga Vegito rivals Beerus, who's stated to be still leagues beyond Goku and Vegeta, so who really knows

 

[speedster352]

Currently its accepted as being 50 times his base form (which is already insanely strong, which is why he can stomp Super Saiyan Blues)

Wasn’t he also able to fight them in blue while in base?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

There's also the guidebook confirming that Manga Blue Vegito is stronger than Beerus

That is from WAY before the Galactic Patrol Prisoner Saga, and considering Toyotaro sees Beerus as stronger than Black Frieza even though he confirmed Granolah and the Saiyans (before Gas got the wish) are the top 3 mortals...

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I am pretty sure rose is just Goku black version of super saiyan blue

It is

Wait, how does Gogets scale to 6 universes?

Scales above suppressed Jiren bare minimum since blueku>heavily suppressed jiren

Currently its accepted as being 50 times his base form (which is already insanely strong, which is why he can stomp Super Saiyan Blues)

no I’m pretty sure SSJR is accepted as being as strong as SSGSS since its stated to be so