• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

The Sword Art Online CRT: Massive Changes To The Entire Verse

Xmark12

FC/OC VS Battles
Retired
3,230
265

Introduction

Here we go.

The Sword Art Online profiles for the longest period of time has been fine with me. They seemed accurate enough, had decent scaling, and though its power levels go from (relatively) grounded to ''eXtReMe UnIvErSe ShAkIng'' in a single volume of the LN, that's actually not what this revision is going to touch... that much at least.

No, instead this revision will focus on all of the more "grounded" aspects of the Sword Art Online verse, and what needs to change to make the verse more accurate.

Incarnation

You know how I said we were going to focus on the more grounded aspects? Yeah, no. This needs to get out of the way first.

Incarnation on the profiles is currently regarded as an active boost in power that only mildly affects the world. Though this may be the case in previous virtual worlds before the Alicization Arc, it is most ''certainly'' not the case within said Arc.

As pointed out in this comprehensive explanation of Incarnation (which I recommend reading in-full, it's a good read), the Underworld can be thought of as a shared dream between all of its inhabitants. Unconsciously, they are all affecting the dream, even in the most minute ways. One such example is with flowers. If multiple people start to believe that a certain kind of flower cannot bloom in an area, and if they believe in that enough, that flower will no longer be able to bloom in that area.

This also goes to fighting. If you truly ''believe'' that an opponent is weaker than you, even subconsciously, and if the opponent themselves think that they cannot beat you down to a subconscious level, ''you will always beat them'' because reality will alter to ensure your victory. If the opponent thinks that they ''can'' beat you however, it will be a battle to see who's mental willpower is stronger than the other, and whoever wins will be the one who will rewrite reality to have their victory.

Of course, there are some inhabitants who eventually realize that the world is just one big dream, and are able to affect it, akin to lucid dreaming. Such people are able to use Incarnation to its fullest extent, not only changing probability of something happening, but also anything else that they can imagine. Telekinesis, invisible swords, barriers, chanting Sacred Arts without a command, etc..

In short: Incarnation is ''passive'', and can affect the entire Underworld itself, either in a good or bad way. If the collective people or someone with strong willpower and imagination believe something to be possible, it will be possible. If the collective people or someone with strong willpower and imagination believe something to be impossible, it will be impossible. This means that the profiles should include:
  • Incarnation's passive nature to constantly affect things around it.
  • Incarnation positively or negatively affecting a user if they do not believe they can succeed in a task or situation.
  • An explanation that states one must have a similar reality-altering ability, else an Incarnation user would simply probability manip their way to victory without ever even being touched by their enemy.

Separate Profiles

The next change I'm suggesting is to separate Kirito and Asuna's Aincrad Arc profiles and the rest of the series' profiles.

One might not think this is a necessary change at first, however, the Aincrad Arc has been expanded upon massively over the years, to the point where it has enough content to eclipse the rest of the series combined. We have many, many feats from Aincrad that haven't been documented yet or documented properly, such as the boulder breaking feat, the Meditation's Awakening buff, Heathcliff's solo of the 50th floor Floor Boss (Which would be the new starting point of Large Building level SAO, rather than the 56th floor Field Boss), and plenty more.

It would essentially be the same as separating Dragon Ball from Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball Super's Goku. There's more than enough content to add to these new profiles for Kirito and Asuna. For a demonstration, I have created the new Aincrad Arc profiles as well as Post-Aincrad Arc profiles in separate Sandboxes:
You may notice though that there's quite a few more changes in those profiles though that I'll explain in the next section, specifically regarding the overall AP, Durability, and Speed of the cast.

VR Feats Do NOT Scale With Each Other!

A big thing that has been bothering me with the profiles is that they all translate the same feats from game to game. This is false.

Though all VR games are connected to the Seed Nexus and all use the same Engine, that doesn't mean that each feat should connect to one another. You don't combine games made in Unity, Unreal Engine, or even Roblox all in one just because they have the same Engine after-all. All games will have differing interpretations of speed, power, dexterity, durability, effects, settings, and much, much more. This is even shown in the anime/LNs. When Kirito enters Gun Gale Online for the first time, though his build focuses on STR, he doesn't create shockwaves with his attacks just like he does in SAO. When he dashes, he doesn't create a Sonic Boom and blitz across the map, he instead runs at Peak Human speeds.

With all of that being said, here are all of the changes that will go down with AP, Durability, and Speed:

Attack Potency/Durability:
  • SAO: Remains pretty much the same, other than new keys for the bottom floors. For more information on SAO feats, check out the Kirito (Aincrad) or Asuna (Aincrad) Sandbox profiles up top.
  • ALO: Lower from Large Building level to At least Small Building level. Though ALO bosses are stronger than SAO ones, the gap is not significant enough to be meaningful. Currently, the ALO clearing group is around the 30s in terms of floor number, which (checking the Kirito (Aincrad) or Asuna (Aincrad) Sandbox profiles once again), would be around At least Small Building level.
  • GGO: Lower from Large Building level to Street level, with Wall level to Small Building level explosives (depending on which one, such as if they use rocket launchers or not) and Small Building level Kagemitsu G4s. This is a massive change, but the simple reason is that GGO has always been shown to be more grounded in its powers. The monsters in GGO are at most Small Building sized, which would be taken down by numerous bullets, (multiple) explosives, and the game's form of lightsabers (which do ''not'' take time to cut in the LNs). Death Gun's starship metal estoc would still remain Street level in AP, with Small Building level in Durability for being able to withstand a Kagemitsu G4's strikes without breaking.
  • UW: Beginning of Alicization will have Kirito start off at Street level for facing off against Ugachi and multiple goblins at once, while Eugeo will start off at Athlete level for being able to dent the Gigas Cedar (which would take many more generations after him to cut down) and was able to take a hit against Ugachi, however he was grievously wounded by the hit. In the Human Realm Arc, most characters will be Wall level, with most Integrity Knights being At least Wall level. Everyone will have Building level+ Enhance Armaments with Multi-City Block level Release Recollections/Durability of Divine Objects. Super Accounts and Quinella are brought to Town level via either their Super Account abilities or Sacred Arts, as shown here with Asuna's feat. Quinella has the maximum amount of Object and System Control Authority, so she would be comparable to the Super Accounts. Their Divine Objects would also be Town level in Durability, as it's possible to use their weapons as conduits for their powers. Next, Kirito with the Night Sky Sword's Release Recollection and Incarnation, as well as Gabriel empowered by Incarnation would both have their low ends bumped up to Small Country level, as it has been shown time and time again that the Underworld is an Earth-sized planet, and since the Underworld shook during their battle, those two would be at this level with their low ends. Finally, Star King Kirito, Star Queen Asuna, and the Abyssal Horror are downgraded to simply Solar System level, as the narration in the light novels are from a third person limited point of view. Thus, it can't be proven that Kirito's clash with the Abyssal Horror shook the universe, and is more likely that they simply shook the area around them. However, since the stars still rippled across space, it's still safe to scale the three to Kirito's previous Incarnation feat and Gabriel.
    • This one's a huge change, moreso than Gun Gale Online. The reason for Wall level rather than Building level+ physical AP/Durability is that nobodyhas been shown to tank an Enhance Armament or Release Recollection hit. The only ones that came close were Kirito, Fanatio, Alice, and Bercouli.​
      • In Kirito's case where he used Spinning Shield to halt Deusolbert's Flame Bow, Divine Objects in this revision would be Multi-City Block level, which would be more than enough to negate most of its power. Even without that, it's stated that Deusolbert was only aiming to severely injure, not kill Kirito and Eugeo, so the Flame Bow wasn't even at full power. In the end, Kirito was slammed into a wall from the force, which created a small crater. He survived, however he was knocked down for the count after the hit, so he's not that far into Wall level (at least in Durability). The last time he got knocked into a wall by the Sword Golem, he was about to die.​
      • In Fanatio's case, it was a beam struggle before she got hit, so most of the attack by the time it hit wasn't as powerful. Even still, she was severelyinjured and was about to die if not for Kirito using one of the teleporting daggers to transport Fanatio into Cardinal's care, which just goes to show how powerful even an indirect hit is.​
        • Another smaller one is Fanatio's Enhance Armament and Release Recollection itself. Kirito was never able to tank the light blasts. Whenever it hit him, it went straight through him. Same thing for Release Recollection. Only Kirito's own Enhance Armament was able to clash with Fanatio's big light blast at the end. As for when he pulled out the mirror, a mirror is used to reflect light, so it would be extremely effective. In addition, it's one created by Sacred Arts, which are usually stronger than standard physical blows (an ice shield managed to halt Deusolbert's Enhance Armament for at least a second), and even still, the mirror melted away in the end and still hit Kirito.​

      • In Alice's case, it's similar to Fanatio's. It was a beam clash, and the two weren't directly hit. Even before then, when Alice was frozen by Eugeo's Enhance Armament, she was forced to use her own Enhance Armament to escape. Before even that, when Alice knocked Kirito and Eugeo around with her Enhance Armament, she used it as a warning rather than to kill. It's directly shown in the anime's visuals as well that the petals Alice used to knock the two around were blunt, rather than sharp.​
      • Finally, Bercouli's case. Bercouli at first was able to match Eugeo's Enhance Armament with his own Enhance Armament's future slashes. However, when he was frozen by the Release Recollection, that's a genuine physical feat. Even still though, this can be chalked up to Beroculi using Incarnation to slowly break himself free (before Eugeo begins sapping his Life of course), giving him Resistance to Ice Manipulation. This would also apply to Eugeo himself, Kirito, Gabriel, PoH (when we get around to making his profile), and the Abyssal Horror (when we get around to making its profile).​
Speed:
  • SAO: Since GGO's Hypersonic+ speed feat is exclusive to that game alone, SAO now only has Supersonic+ combat/reactions to its name for characters being comparable, if not faster than Flashing Penetrator, a Sword Skill that breaks the sound barrier. Otherwise, all other speed feats on the lower floors are around Peak Human (for even level 1 players being superior to humans in the real world), Superhuman (post-level 1 players), and Subsonic (mostly Asuna, since she attacked faster than Kirito could even see, even with his Superhuman (at the time) speed. Most characters later on would have Subsonic travel speed/general speed however for being vastly superior to floor 1 Asuna by that point).
  • ALO: Relatively similar to SAO, as Kirito, even before New Aincrad, was able to move faster than his visual effects, which generated Sonic Booms, so Supersonic+.
  • GGO: The Hypersonic+ combat speed remains the same, however travel speed is now Peak Human to Superhuman, as GGO characters are relatively grounded, but still superior to real life humans. Superhuman is for AGI-based characters such as LLENN, who's stated to be comparable (not superior) to a fast-moving car.
  • UW: Relativistic is now relegated to the Human Realm Arc and above, as well as being only reaction speed based rather than overall speed (Fanatio simply reacted to her own lasers after-all). As for the new overall speed, it would vary from Athletic Human (BoA Eugeo), Peak Human (BoA Kirito), Superhuman (Human Realm Arc Kirito and Eugeo), and Subsonic (Integrity Knights. Alice moved faster than what Kirito and Eugeo could see, and did the same thing with her enemies and anyone spectating her who were normal people)

Powers and Abilities Changes

Most Powers and Abilities will remain the same throughout the keys, however there are some new ones and some that need to be removed:

SAO:
  • Hypermobility. VR Avatars do not have muscles and insides like real people do. Thus, they are able to do impossible motions that people in real life would not be able to do. This was shown in Asuna and Argo's "sparring" match.
  • Statistics Amplification in the form of critical hits, both from weak points and random chance.
  • Status Effect Inducement via Sword Skills. If one can directly land a Sword Skill on an opponent towards a vital point such as the head, the opponent will be stunned for upwards of 10 seconds.
  • Healing via Recovery Potions (Accelerating recovery over a period of 5 minutes) and Status Effect Inducement Nullification via Antidote Potions (Only works against debuffs on the user's power or below).
  • Status Effect Inducement Nullification via Antidote Crystals, Healing via Healing Crystals (Healing heavy injuries. Healing Crystals act instantly and can immediately bring one back to full HP, even when near-death)
  • Healing (Accelerating recovery. Should be comparable to Recovery Potions) and Status Effect Inducement Nullification via Meditation and Awakening (if the character has them). Both provide healing, as well as the ability to ignore debuffs such as stuns and paralysis even stronger than Antidote Potions for a few minutes. Awakening in particular is able to resist abilities that can affect Immortal Objects, which are superior in durability to even the final boss itself.
  • Able to distract opponents with Blade Throwing via Distraction. This is basically only for Kirito, since he's the only one we know so far who has the Black Throwing Skill.
  • Shockwaves, mostly for Kirito and Asuna. Kirito when using Dual Blades and Asuna when using Mother's Rosario.
  • Remove STR increase and DEF increase, as those haven't been shown in any sources other than the video games, which are non-canon.
  • Remove anything to do with Debuff Crystals, as those don't exist.
ALO:
  • Just add the first three bullet points from SAO to ALO.
GGO:
UW:
  • Super Accounts would have Type 2 and 3 Immortality. They have a nigh-infinite amount of Life, and any form of dismemberment will not kill them. So long as they believe in their power (Incarnation), they will continue to regenerate and fight as well.

Other

We're pretty much at the end. In this small section, I'm just gonna put some smaller stuff, such as Lifting Strength and Range.

Lifting Strength for Aincrad Arc characters would of course vary per-floor, however lower floors would be around Peak Human to Superhuman, whereas the upper floors would be around Class 5. ALfheim Online characters would be around the same, both having Aincrad as a constant after-all. Gun Gale Online would be Peak Human, as they'd still be superior to normal humans.

Range wouldn't be much different, other than Kirito having a couple meter long shockwaves with Dual Blades (as Starburst Stream's attacks covered the entire floor 74 boss room).

Finally, there are some profile picture changes for some keys, aaaaaaaand... Asuna gets a GGO key and Eiji gets an ALO and UW key! Wooo!

Conclusion and TL;DR

And we're here at the end. There are quite a lot of changes, however I have already gotten started on making profiles with these changes in-mind in my Sandboxes. Here are all of the revised profiles that I have so far:
My goal is to get all of the other profiles up to speed, then begin adding other characters such as PoH (Who would have a Progressive and Aincrad Arc key, since he has appearances in both) and Silica.

So yeah, that's pretty much everything! Tl;DR, Incarnation is passive and constantly affects the world in both good or bad ways, VR games do not scale with one another and have different feats, there's a bunch of Powers and Abilities changes (mostly to Aincrad Keys), and some smaller additions along with Asuna getting a GGO key and Eiji getting an ALO and UW key.

Cheers, everyone! I'd like to see your guys' thoughts.
 
Last edited:
I disagree because that's the big funny

Also didn't feel like pressing the watch button so I'm doing it this way
 
Anyways I've already looked this over before I agree
 
I honestly like the minor downgrade in exchange for some more powers and abilities. Also just realized Kirito has like no resistances to anything besides pain.
 
I would best write SK Kirito, SQ Asuna and AB as At least 4-B, possibly higher.

Also, would Moon Cradle Kirito and Asuna be part of their SK and SQ keys?

Lastly, I wonder when we get enough feats to talk about Unital Ring.
 
Moon Cradle feats apply to SK Kirito and SQ Asuna, yeah. I'd rather keep 4-B, since Kirito hasn't displayed or shown he's gotten any more powerful than he did against Gabriel. He's gotten more powers, yes, but not necessarily stronger.

Maybe after we get working scans for Unital Ring we can begin assembling feats, but right now, there's not much we can go off of.
 
I would best write SK Kirito, SQ Asuna and AB as At least 4-B, possibly higher.

Also, would Moon Cradle Kirito and Asuna be part of their SK and SQ keys?
Moon Cradle is just a side story of Star King Kirito going on a case of a missing child. Even though Kirito said, "At this rate, there's going to be another war.", I doubt it made him any stronger.
 
The reason I asked about that is because, Moon Cradle is only a year or two after the War of Underworld. The time when Kirito, Asuna and Alice jumps inside Underworld again, it has been 200 years.
 
They haven't displayed it during War of Underworld, so it still counts as after that arc. Either way, SK and SQ would still have those abilities.
 
Also, just want to calc two Real Life feats for Kirito: Spearing Johnny with an umbrella, and breaking a Bokuto during his Kendo fight with Alice.
 
and breaking a Bokuto during his Kendo fight with Alice.
We're following the light novels, where that didn't happen. In the LN, when Kirito and Alice clashed, their Bokutos slipped from their hands rather than broke.
 
We're following the light novels, where that didn't happen. In the LN, when Kirito and Alice clashed, their Bokutos slipped from their hands rather than broke.
I know. Just wanted to see the result (the energy and resultant AP for such a feat).
 
Last edited:
Oh, that's fine then, lol. Just specify it's not canon to the LNs.
 
Thing is, there's no concrete proof of a galaxy, much less universe shaking. The only concrete feat we have from that are that the stars rippled everywhere the eye can see.
 
IIRC he only stated there were stars around, though scans for that would be nice. Either way, even if he did say that, it was still in the perspective of the two girls, who couldn't have known the entire galaxy - let alone universe - shook.
 
IIRC he only stated there were stars around, though scans for that would be nice. Either way, even if he did say that, it was still in the perspective of the two girls, who couldn't have known the entire galaxy - let alone universe - shook.
IIRC, the prologue said the universe shook twice. Once from the girls' POV and the other one which I'm pretty sure wasn't from the girls' POV.
 
IIRC he only stated there were stars around, though scans for that would be nice.
No, Kirito directly compares the size of Underworld to the Milky Way. So Kirito's feat of shaking the universe should be taken as galaxy shaking, which, according to Accelerator's page, is 4-B.
 
The narration was still in third person limited, not omniscient, so there's still no concrete proof. As for that statement, then it'd still be in the 4-B range.
 
The narration was still in third person limited, not omniscient, so there's still no concrete proof. As for that statement, then it'd still be in the 4-B range.
Depending from 3rd Person Limited narration, can we say "Varies from 4-B to 4-A"? or 4-B, possibly higher over time?
 
Last edited:
The narration was still in third person limited, not omniscient, so there's still no concrete proof. As for that statement, then it'd still be in the 4-B range.
Yes, it would be 4-B. However, how does it being third person invalidate the statement? It makes no sense and doesn't line up with our standards for statements.
 
I think it's more about the character's knowledge and expertise on a subject. Now, I'm not a SAO fan or supporter so I wouldn't know the validity of their statement, but their knowledge and experience of the nature of whatever is being shook by Kirito should be considered when accepting said statement.
 
Screenshot_2020-12-18_183138.png

I know he stated that he compared the Underworld to the Milky Way, but looking back at when he said this, it doesn't look like he was talking serious. Or at least in my POV.
 
That doesn't really sound like an exaggeration, no
 
Back
Top