What does the relationship between Kaio-ken multipliers have anything to do with the relationship between SSJ and Kaio-ken? And if you're talking about SSJ, I didn't say that Super Saiyan was a 10x multiplier, just that Akira Toriyama felt that way, as a supporting piece of evidence that further distinguishes between how Kaio-ken works and how SSJ works.
No that tells nothing. That just means Akira was wrong, as his statement literally contradicts his entire story. No matter how you try to twist it, a 10 times multiplier < 20 times multiplier. You can't deny it more you can deny that 10 < 20
And I don't understand why so many people in here are taking the SSJ multiplier at face value, yet aren't doing the same for the SSJ2 or SSJ3 multipliers.
This is for another CRT, for now we're only talking about multipliers the wiki accept. We might tackle SSJ2 and SSJ3 later
Perhaps it's because the idea that SSJ2 Gohan stomped Perfect Cell with only twice his Mastered SSJ stats - his Mastered SSJ form previously being completely overpowered by Perfect Cell - is too much of an absurd position to take seriously.
This is probably true. I never believed SSJ2 was a times 2 multiplier either because of that
And I I can't help but remember that the Mastered SSJ form's multiplier should technically be lower than those of SSJ Grades 2 and 3, yet the overall power of the form is so much higher due to its mastery of the Super Saiyan's ki and minimalization of stamina loss, so there's an element of ki control/stamina which hyperfixation on power levels tend to miss. Sufficiently high ki control can incredibly amplify the effective force of even a low-level battle power, and the destructive force of even what would otherwise be the weakest attacks.
The reason why FPSSJ Goku was stronger than SSJG3 Trunks and Vegeta was because his base power was much higher than both of them.
This all means that it is entirely possible for SSJ to have only a 10x multiplier, yet have an "disproportionate" ki control such that it outranks even a Kaio-ken x 20 in overall power.
Headcanon. And how it can be a 10 times multiplier
Even the idea of Kaio-ken as a flat linear multiplicative boost in all stats is questionable, given the circumstances in which it is used. Remember how when Goku used Kaio-ken x 2, it almost completely failed against Vegeta, but when Goku used Kaio-ken x 3, which is literally just a 1.5x boost over x2, suddenly he was able to trash Vegeta with relative ease?
Vegeta had a power level of 18,000. Goku with kaioken times 2 was 16,000 and with Kaioken times 3 was 24,000. So obviously he overpowered Vegeta with KK3 but not with KK2.
Also, Post-Zenkai Vegeta had a power level of 24,000 as well, and he easily killed both Kiwi, who is equal to Saiyan Saga Vegeta, and Dodoria, who was stronger than Vegeta before
There's also the issue of "overarching factors", such as the strain the technique puts on the body, and a more general "battle fatigue", making the Kaio-ken itself less and less effective with each usage.
That is because the kaioken is extremely draining and dangerous to use. If someone uses it incorrectly, or too long, their body will break from the strain. This is why it's less effective with each usage, and becomes more dangerous to use
It would be absurd to assert that the Kaio-ken x 20 Goku used against Frieza while he was down and out would be just as effective as a hypothetical one he could have used when their fight was just beginning and he was still "fresh".
Goku was relatively fresh when he used Kaiomen times 10 and was still handily beaten by Frieza.
Besides, what you're saying got nothing to do to the multipliers. The reason why it might not be as effective (which until you prove it is the case, is your headcanon), is because Goku's base power weakens when he gets drained, so multiplier can only do so much if the base power is weak
It's clear what makes the Kaio-ken technique so effective is not the multiplier in itself, but the sudden spike in ki output it "forces" on one's body, relative to some multiplier.
Not really. The multiplier is there, but it can only do so much when base power is lacking. This is why Goku couldn't beat Frieza even with KK20, because his Base form was too weak for the multiplier to make up for it
@AKM sama you should also consider this.
This is appeal to authority, especially when you got nothing to prove what you say
