Gilad_Hyperstar
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The Super Saiyan Speed Multiplier
- Thread starter AKM sama
- Start date
- Status
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Wait, why's my name here, what happened , did something happen, did I break any rule?
Vietthai96
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1. I failed to see any hostilities, he is a bit harsh with his word, but he not insult AKM or anything else
2. Well, at least it have "better content" than your argument actually, cuz you mostly target people and arguing without any scan or evidences, most of it was you own personal interpretation
Gilad_Hyperstar
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No you're fine
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It doesn't put intense strain on his body, for one. And if SSJ Grade 3 is anything to go by, stats can be increased unequally in SSJ forms.
No, that's a funky interpretation of an alternative translation of his statement, unsupported by the very context in which it is brought up.
@DarkDragonMedeus @Antvasima @AKM sama I think these people need to be threadbanned. They've devolved into circlejerking over what amounts to a childish insult thrown at me.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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That's not a proof, and SSJ Grade 3 is a very specific case where the story goes out of its way to show that it increases strength at the cost of speed, something that literally no other SSJ form display
SirAlex09
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Excuse me what? It does put up an intense strain on your body to the point you can't fully utilise the form's full power which was the entire point of FSSJ. The only difference is that it doesn't kill you.
The alternative one is the most quoted one btw
@DarkDragonMedeus @Antvasima @AKM_Sama I think these people need to be threadbanned. They've devolved into circlejerking over what amounts to a childish insult thrown at me.
Seriously Bro? His line delivery was just sick af LMFAO No need to get angry
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I could argue that you need to be threadbanned, you have ignored strong logic thrown against you and are blatantly using cherry picking. You cannot claim any kind of superiority in any way. Excuse us if we're laughing our asses off if your arguments being destroyed has resulted in you constantly trying to get the admins to save your fundamentally broken logic. Trying to get me banned will not change the fact that you are wrong and are quite literally ruining this thread by being as wrong as you are.
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and notice how the only time we have even done these things is between making solid points that make sense. We are not just making fun of you and making jokes or derailing, we are making an attempt to argue like normal people but you won't budge and instead have replaced real evidence with headcanon with no apparent basis
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It literally is. Kaio-ken works differently than SSJ, and SSJ works differently than Kaio-ken. Their portrayals make that clear. Denying it won't make it untrue.
It also is a proof positive that not all stats are necessarily amped equally in Dragon Ball, and there can even be drawbacks when one stat is amped "too much".
Yeah I'm sure SSJ Goku was feeling the intense strain in his fight against 100% Frieza.
While SSJ does put strain on the body, it isn't immense like the Kaio-ken is. This should be obvious to anyone who's ever read Dragon Ball and seen how the form and the technique operate.
Doesn't matter. I'm pretty sure the alternative translation and the interpretations surrounding only exist anyway because of Seth The Programmer, which isn't a good sign of their validity to begin with.
I'm not ignoring anything, certainly not any "strong logic" or "argument destruction". My arguments are basically the same as @AKM sama's in this thread.
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Mind if we chill out with any personal attacks so the thread doesn’t get derailed?
Gilad_Hyperstar
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How is it different? Show proof. And by proof I mean manga scans. Both multiply powers by amplifying one's ki, and there's proof for that all across the thread
SirAlex09
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Didn't matter because Frieza'S strain was far higher and the Manga was emphasizing on that. Similar to how Blue has terrible stamina as well but it didn't look like that against Golden Frieza because the movie focused on showing that Golden Frieza's stamina consumption was far higher.
Considering the fact the Seth won all public debates against Staff and he is the sole reason for 5c Roshi just because of his rant, I wouldn't disrespect him too much
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this is effectively a self own on your part, since you've admitted that bad transformations such as that have an imbalance of not enough speed for power, which implies that a transformation that works fine like the original super saiyan does not have that imbalance
bad argument + it's pretty blatantly portrayed to be an outlier among transformations. Even if that was a real rule then it wouldn't change the fact that super saiyan has at least a >40 time speed increase.
this strain talk is irrelevant
uh oh the seth dissing has happened get in the bunker
you have pretended the ssj being>40 times speed multiplier chain doesn't exist, and instead chose to ask staff to ban me at coincidentally the same time I brought it up
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How funny. Good job. Well done. Outstanding. Amazing, even. You got 'em, you truly did, you're the best of us.
Dead 1990s era punchlines are only gonna elongate the thread unnecessarily, mate. This ain't a chatroom, don't treat it like that. Make your points concisely, these kinda thread deteriorating messages only ruin otherwise solid argument credibility.
This kinda goes out to all of you, don't do stuff that just discredits you :/
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20 times base goku=50% frieza<100% frieza=40 times faster than base goku<ssj multiplier of 50 times
it lines up perfectly, if you are going to respond then you should probably try dealing with this first since your idea that it could be a 10 or 20 times multiplier is basically nonexistent because of this
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no more jokes from me, of course
although there are other factors that made this feel like a chatroom to me personally, a questionably troll made argument of a times 10 multiplier in particular
I genuinely believe there's a possibility that they're not taking this seriously at all and are just trolling with a point that nobody, even on the agreeing side, could possibly support
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Rise above it, simple as that :/
Again, shit-flinging isn't exactly... a good atmosphere to have in a thread.
Keep calm, I require no hostilities from this point on from anyone, really. Recognise no one can yadda-yadda your asserions, and if you recognise you're a representative of a common view, ask for breaks for the day, helps a ton :v
Consider this a final warning for everyone. From this point on you can be AKM himself, but if you engage in poor behavior, you're getting reported to RVR. Plain and simple, we should pride good decorum over anything else.
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Kaio-ken puts immense strain on the body, SSJ doesn't. Among other things. So simple.
And yet, neither of their bodies were in danger of "shorting out" like using the Kaio-ken for too long does.
SSJ/100% power strain and Kaio-ken strain are not the same types of strain. They aren't even similar types of strain.
No it's not. It's not an "admission" of anything on my part. Amplifications of ki, "bad transformations" or otherwise, still don't necessarily increase all stats equally, or to the same level, which is what SSJ Grade 3 proved in the first place.
It is 100% relevant, because it shows that Kaio-ken and SSJ don't work the same way.
I don't particularly care for assertions that "percentages of power" somehow necessarily scale linearly in any fiction, especially when the argument for that in Frieza's case is him being "equal" to Kaio-ken x 20 Goku, even though Kaio-ken x 20 Goku's strongest attack barely even singed Frieza's hand.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Irrelevant to the point discussed. What I meant is that since both increase stats by amplifying the ki in one's body, how they're different in that regard?
All they do is just multiply power. That's it. There's nothing special about them. And SSJ does put a lot of strain on the user's body
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That just means the super saiyan form is less strenuous. That doesn't defeat the fact that both of these two amps both function by amplifying ki.
And are you trying to argue SSJ Grade 3 disproves this? Really? One of the only outliers in the series? When its literally verbatim stated that this form functions by actually sacrificing speed for power, and its literally stated that the weight of its muscles slows it down?
What grade 3 does isn't to my knowledge ki amplification. It's literally bulking up to draw out more power, and then because of this bulk up, the weight of the muscles slow down the user. Even if it was ki amplification, that just means the speed decrease is greater than the increase given by amplification.
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if that is true then the entire grade 3 argument is annihilated
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You people keep insisting on making false equivalences between Kaio-ken and SSJ because "they amplify ki" while ignoring everything else about how they work. They don't amplify ki in the same ways. Hence the immense strain for Kaio-ken and relative lack of strain for SSJ.
This is like saying that Goku's Kamehameheha wave should be faster/more powerful than Goku himself because Raditz's scouter read Goku's ki being amplified while he does it.
You people keep saying that SSJ Grade 3 is some sort of "outlier", and yet every time we see a technique or transformation that essentially "forces" higher ki output in Dragon Ball, there's always some massive drawback in some stat to it, with overall power ultimately being lessened in the process.
SSJ Grade 3: muscles become too bulky, ki drain becomes more rapid, speed and stamina are sacrificed
SSJ3: ki drain becomes immense, stamina is sacrificed
Kaio-ken: ki drain becomes explosively taxing, bodily integrity (i.e. durability) is ultimately sacrificed
SSJB Kaio-ken: the same things as Kaio-ken + Delayed Onset Ki Disorder, ki control (a big one) sacrificed
When Trunks first went into Super Saiyan Grade 3, he powered up like every other Super Saiyan does. The form 100% involves ki amplification.
And "even if it was ki amplification, that just means the speed decrease is greater than the increase given by amplification" sounds like a bit of a self-contradiction. Speed cannot increase and decrease simultaneously.
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???????
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who cares if they amplify it in different ways if it's the ki amplyifying itself that results in more speed and power. bad argument, you are intentionally bringing up blatantly irrelevant things
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"you can't eat both bananas and apples!"
"why"
"because bananas have a peel"
"what"
"That makes them different from apples, so you can't eat them both"
"But they're both edible"
"they can't be, because the peel is different"
this is the fallacious logic behind your kaioken vs ssj argument
"why"
"because bananas have a peel"
"what"
"That makes them different from apples, so you can't eat them both"
"But they're both edible"
"they can't be, because the peel is different"
this is the fallacious logic behind your kaioken vs ssj argument
SirAlex09
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Proof that his Ki was amplified due to Grade 3 and not due to rage? All he did was pump Ki into his muscles. It was Ki application and not amplification. Hell even Cell could hurt him and potentially kill him. This is prove that Grade 3 only amplified strength and not the other stats due to how it works ( by pumping Ki into your muscles). It's the antithesis to Dyspo's lightspeed mode and is completely irrelevant to normal SSJ.
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He is a man
SirAlex09
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You know.. I am at work and this is the second time you made me laugh loudly. At this point my employer will fire me '_'
Still I agree.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Even if he's right and it is ki amplification, it doesn't matter since the whole point of Grade 3 is to give an immense boost in strength in the cost of speed. The story literally goes out of its way to show that, as well as that this is a very flawed form
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Must be a bad employer if it would fire you by a minor thing like that tbh
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Anyways, my mind is still processing the fact that SS1 is only a ×10 multiplier. I'm stunned.
Ki and speed were always tied, the higher your battle power was, the higher was your speed, such cases happened in situations like Gohan VS Cell, Frieza VS Goku, in which till Goku had the zenkai boost, Frieza was almost invisible for his sight.
Ki and speed were always tied, the higher your battle power was, the higher was your speed, such cases happened in situations like Gohan VS Cell, Frieza VS Goku, in which till Goku had the zenkai boost, Frieza was almost invisible for his sight.
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AKM sama is
From where do you get that SSJ is only 10 times boost?
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I was complaining about what it was said above.
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I’m like, 99% sure it’s not a x10. after all, goku has access to kkx20, which is still useless vs freiza.
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Yeah, that's what the user Malomtek said above lol.
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Where could the 1% doubt possibly come from?
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