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The Season 9 MLP FIM premier

We still don't know Grogar's full potential with his bells. We can say "At least, possibly higher."
 
Current Scaling:

S1-3 Twilight Sparkle = Rainbow Dash = Applejack = Fluttershy = Rarity = Pinkie Pie = Shining Armor = 6-B

S4-8 Twilight Sparkle = At least 6-B, possibly 4-C

Shining Armor + Cadence Love > Queen Chrysalis > Princess Celestia = Princess Luna = Tantabus = Starswirl the Bearded = Princess Cadance = S9 Twilight Sparkle = Baseline Star (4-C)

King Sombra = at least Star

Crystal Heart > Snow Storm > Celestia + Luna = 2x Star

The Pony of Shadows > Elements of Harmony > Discord = Lord Tirek Post-Mane 6 = at least 2x Star

Grogar > King Sombra > Celestia > Lord Tirek Base Form

Storm King w/ Staff = All Alicorn Magic Twilight = Lord Tirek Third Form = at least 4x Star

Rainbow Power > Full Power Tirek = at least 8x Star (High 4-C)
 
No. Cadance is 4-C already. She held off Sombra, and for further scaling: Sombra kidnapped Flurry Heart just to get her to surrender. If Cadance were low 4-C where he was 4-C, then he'd just have to hit her once, yet instead he considers her enough of a threat to threaten her child so he doesn;t have to deal with her.
 
More specifically, I'm regarding Post-Mane 6 Tirek when he was a match for Discord and didn't need him anymore.
 
I really don't agree with Low 4-C for pre-S9 Twilight in the first place. If she is on par with Starswirl, and he is slightly superior to her, then he's already 4-C by himself. It's not as if he got stronger between seasons.
 
Yeah Alicorn Twilight has definitely been 4-C the entire time, I dunno why we're somehow saying she got stronger despite no obvious training to do that.

Otherwise that tierlist seems accurate with the exception of Starlight Glimmer also being in the 4-C tier. I also believe the Tantabus is stronger than at least Luna by herself, she clearly was unable to stop it through power alone, stating it had grown beyond her control, so it'd be with Sombra I suppose. It also no-sold Rainbow Power in a dream but that's obviously dubious.
 
Lightbuster30 said:
GokuSparkle said:
His durability certainly does, and why shouldn't his AP be comparable to his durability?
Click to expand...
He tanked the Elements of Harmony and that's it. The EoH are bare minimum 2x Alicorn level. The Pillars are not, and there is nothing to suggest their weapons/artifacts are on that level.
Click to expand...
Starswirl at least is Alicorn Level, Twilight and Starlight were also helping, so that's at least 5x star level pulling at his chest and he still resisted for a good while, and they were all clearly struggling. Also, why shouldn't the pillars' power be comparable to the elements? They created it, so if anything, their artifacts would be stronger. Anyways, 5x star level is 4-C+.
 
That is decent evidence for 4-C+ on it's own. However the Pillars didn't create the Elements all at once. They gave a piece of their essence into a seed, and the seed grew into something mighty and powerful. They didn't create the entire tree using a fraction of their power (at least not at all at once). It grew to be that strong by itself. It's pretty obvious that the EoH are > Starswirl seeing as he is >= base Alicorn Twilight, who scales to people weaker than the EoH.
 
Lightbuster30 said:
That is decent evidence for 4-C+ on it's own. However the Pillars didn't create the Elements all at once. They gave a piece of their essence into a seed, and the seed grew into something mighty and powerful. They didn't create the entire tree using a fraction of their power (at least not at all at once). It grew to be that strong by itself. It's pretty obvious that the EoH are > Starswirl seeing as he is >= base Alicorn Twilight, who scales to people weaker than the EoH.
Click to expand...
Okay, but anyway, PoS at least has 4-C+ Durability.
 
If you paused at 4:04, you'd see what I was talking about. Sure, it only took a couple of secxonds once all of them pulled, but the fact that it was a struggle at all from an enhanced set of elements, 3 alicorn level characters and a skilled unicorn says a lot about his power.
 
"Twilight and Starlight and Starswirl still need to get a 4-C key. And I still don't understand why people think she got stronger as an alicorn. Also, the Mane 6 still need a Power of Friendship Key, and the Strom King should be upgraded, Stygian should be upgraded, I believe (unless it's already been implemented), Sombra should get some mind abilities, and the elements and Discord should get an At least rating, because of Discord feats. Also Grogar still shouldn't be Unknown."
 
Here are the Major Points:

  • Statements about the singular Element of Magic maybe even strong enough to enslave Equestria, which would imply superiority to Celestia at the very least.
  • Rainbow Rocks demonstrates and heavily implies the Dazzlings became as strong as their original selves (if not stronger based on what I'll bring up in the later bulletpoint), who were unable to be beaten by the Pillars and could only be BFR , something only a threat comparable to the PoS was shown in the MLPverse.
  • The Dazzlings also state if they gain the power used against Sunset in Equestria Girls 1 ... They would have enough power to return to their original selves ... So that would mean that the EQG 1 Elements are = True Dazzlings
  • The Pillars (who were unable to beat the Dazzlings) are somewhat comparable with the Elements used to fight Tirek/PoS... I do say somewhat because they should at least be comparable due to sharing the same energy source and were the originators that helped sowed the seed for the elements to grow ... But I do agree the Elements are likely stronger due to what Starswirl stated.
  • The Singular Elements in the Rainbow Rocks movie are able to fight the Dazzlings and even harm them (Rarity, one of the weakest of the Elements in terms of feats manages to do so and Twilight was able to temporarily fight off their magic solo)... So yeah.


Scaling Chain: The Pillars <<<< EQG 1 Elements = True Dazzlings <<<< EQG 2 Elements (Pre-Powerup) << Dazzlings from Rainbow Rocks <<< Post-EQG 2 Elements <<<<<<< Sci-Twi (Friendship Games & Everfree)
 
I see...I personally agree, but couldn't it just be said that Sunset was being stupid and irrational?

Also, why are EQG 2 Dazzlings>True Dazzlings? And also, I don't think the differences in general are that big (>>>>>>>>)
 
Neither is accurate because she should knw the power of the Elements... In-fact she chastizes Twilight for not knowing what the Elements are capable of by themselves... So she clearly knows more about her power , likely due to having far more experience with the Elements than Twilight, and as such her statement could be utilized. In-fact, later on she only states that what she was saying was immoral or "wrong" on a moral sense , never outright states she was lying or exaggerating her claims on the Element's powers.

Because they absorbed quite a bit more magic than what they were planning on obtaining to get their true forms. Also, The Elements were about as strong as their former selves based on Adagio's claim, yet the Elements needed to combine their efforts and elevate to a far higher level to eventually defeat them.

You can maybe argue the difference between Elements isn't actually pretty big... But when comparing Human Twilight to everyone else in the EQG storyline... I believe you can. She was only defeated by someone empowered by all the Elements and was actually stronger until distracted... Later on is superior to the Elements combined due to essentially noping Gloriossa who was noted as too strong for the Elements at that point (who at that point scale > True Dazzling) without using nearly any of her magic to avoid her demon part coming out... Then has the Diodes ontop of that.
 
"The Dazzlings also state if they gain the power used against Sunset in Equestria Girls 1 ... They would have enough power to return to their original selves ... So that would mean that the EQG 1 Elements are = True Dazzlings"

"Because they absorbed quite a bit more magic than what they were planning on obtaining to get their true forms. Also, The Elements were about as strong as their former selves based on Adagio's claim, yet the Elements needed to combine their efforts and elevate to a far higher level to eventually defeat them."
 
Twilight has much more experience with the elements than Sunset.

Wait,what suggests the Dazzlings are comparable to the elements? And I think they did expect to get that much.

Empowered by all the elements who get their power from 1 element. Actually, when she defeated Gloriosa, she used all her power and almost lost control.
 
The justification for 4-C Starswirl is also probably being shown as comparable to the princesses when they dstroyed the vines together.
 
That came from the Movie Rainbow Rocks. I cited it above... The Magic Surge that gave them the confidence to believe they would get their true magic back... But there is another thing that hints at such... There is an extra line I left out from the proof that their true power was being restored):

Adagio Dazzle: You feel that, girls? Our true power is being restored.

Aria Blaze and Sonata Dusk: [giggling]

Adagio Dazzle: And that's before we've tapped into the strongest magic here.

That last line is referring to the Elements User's Energy ... As they confirm literally a second later:

Aria Blaze: But the Rainblossoms, or whatever they're called, aren't under our spell . How exactly are we supposed to get to their magic?

Adagio Dazzle: The Rainbooms are just as capable of falling apart as anyone else. They just need a little... push in the wrong direction. I have a feeling everyone here is going to be lining up to give them a shove.

... And if you guys don't believe they are referring to them... Well... The EQG are the only ones unaffected by the Singing Spell... And it wouldn't make any sense considering they were already absorbing the power neccessary to return to their true selves.

.... Basically confirming that the Elements from EQG 1 to EQG 2 are at least comparable as they are stated that the energy they needed to become their true selves is weaker than the Elements' Magic)... Which they want to gain to up their chances of being the victors in the end... Which they manage to gain a good portion of, as confirmed here:

Sunset Shimmer: Stop! You have to stop! This is what they've been after all along! They're feeding off of the magic inside you!

Applejack: How can they be using our magic? It's the magic of friendship.

Sunset Shimmer: Ever since you started this band, you've been letting little things get to you. I never said anything 'cause I didn't feel like it was my place. Not when I was so new to this whole "friendship" thing. I still have a lot to learn. But I do know that if you don't work out even the smallest problems right at the start, the magic of friendship can be turned into something else.

Basically this proves they not only had their "True Magic"... But also a good portion of the Elements' Powers.... Which could explain a lot about why the Elements struggled if they were seemingly comparable in power to the True Dazzlings already.
 
In regards to Rainbow Rocks, the Elements were never mentioned by name. As shown in the first movie, the Magic of Friendship from inside of them was stronger than the Element of Magic.

Magic of Friendship > Element of Magic

The Element of Magic is some unknown degree below the Magic of Friendship.

Magic of Friendship > Dazzlings True Power > Starswirl = 4-C
 
If nobody's gonna go and do the edits for what GokuSparkle suggested, I could just go do them. I dunno what we're all waiting, they seem to all be agreed upon, it's the EQG ones we're debating rn.
 
True. For just 4-C for Twilight and Starswirl was accepted by knowledgable members and mods alike...

For the EqG for the most part everyone who has so far debated with me about it agreed with them being 4-C... So it's pretty unaminous. I just need Darkanine to come and approve and I believe they can be revised as well.
 
Pikachu942 said:
If nobody's gonna go and do the edits for what GokuSparkle suggested, I could just go do them. I dunno what we're all waiting, they seem to all be agreed upon, it's the EQG ones we're debating rn.
Click to expand...
I'd rather wait.
 
Changes to be finalized and added.

4-C:

Starswirl (Generally considered to be one of the strongest Unicorns of all time and on par with if not stronger than King Sombra. Comparable to Princess Celestia and Princess Luna) Not being able to move the sun on his own is now PIS due to current feats and statements contradicting the initial statement about the sun.

Twilight (Comparable to Starswirl, Neutralized Sombra's attacks)

Starlight (Comparable to Twilight, Blocked Discord's physical form from the school)

At least 4-C

Prime Sirens (Superior to Starswirl, defeated only by banishment)

Empowered Dazzlings (On par if not greater than their original powers)

Magic of Friendship EQG Forms (Defeated the empowered Dazzlings)
 
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