Threemagi
He/Him- 486
- 97
This is like.... what? 6th Manifold CRT? Lets just get into it.
To put simply, upgrade to [Solid 1-A] or [At least 1-A, higher] if the staff and others are feeling generous.
Establising Solid 1-A or 1-A, higher
In one tiny subset of Manifold, there's one cosmology with 1-A descriptions.
Empyrean Void
This thing is the backdrop of whole dimensional structures 'below' it. It is beyond the concept of size, dimension, structure, and laws of nature.
Start of the journey to Empyrean. A place with no structures. Its beyond the very concept of 'size' as comparison of size is rendered utterly meaningless here.
This is elaboration from the original Dante Paradiso :
There are no concepts of 'far' or 'near'. Probably meant that distance is Irrelevant. You cannot measure anything in here.
There are no concepts of 'add' and 'substract' over distance. Because in the Abode of God, laws of nature has no relevance, aka : its beyond physics.
Statement of structureless void again.
The Truth/Unified Theory cannot be explained by mere Dimensionality
After the main girl and co. finished their trip, they are proposing new unified theory that could explain the cosmology around them.
One suggests it has something to do with unification of phenomena through higher dimensional space.
But that theory is quickly shot down by the main girl. Because mere dimensionality cannot possibly cover the nature of Empyrean, and dimensionality is merely an approximation , not the whole truth :
Now that Solid 1-A is established, it can be higher
Manifold is governed by deeper source than physical laws. Namely, mathematics and logic, both are underlyings of reality on Manifoldverse.
As I said already, Empyrean Void is merely one cosmology in a manifold. And manifold contains infinite amount, encompassing all logical systems.
Its here explicitly said that complexity itself did not originate or created from most fundamental of physical laws. But all is originating from even deeper and more primal source, that is mathematical logic that underlay all things.
An example : how the existence of one mathematical structure caused the existence of physical structures like stars. And since said mathematical structure existed everywhere, (all over Manifoldverse) so can complexity like Life exist all over the Manifold of Manifolds because it would be consequence of mathematical strucures which presided it.
In other words, mathematical concepts take the role of 'base', or probably 'Archetype'. Everything is based on them. Physical existences rely on them but mathematical concepts don't rely on physical existences.
For example : Theory of Everything regarding Hilbert Space is 'Archetype' (governing concept) of infinite dimensional multiverse. Any non-contradictive descriptions of any kind of Outerverses are 'Archetypes' (governing concept) of Outerverses in question.
But other logical mathematical concepts, which covers any multiverse theory invented by man should be able to be covered by a Manifold :
That said, give this whole race 'At least 1-A, higher' lol
Establishing Infinite Higher Order Hierarchy
Manifold has higher-order
'Higher-order' might be alluding to quote of 'manifold of manifolds infinite hierarchy'.
We might be looking at infinite outerversal hierarchy here? Considering just One Manifold (of possibly lower order) already contains all possible cosmologies.
Higher order logic, in manifold
It has 'higher order logic'. Maybe this quote lends some legitimacy about manifold encompassing all forms of logic.
Infinite Hierarchy
Manifold of Manifolds
A Manifold (collection of universes) might be one thread to great tapestry of Manifold of Manifolds. A literal drop in an ocean. That's how vast Manifold of Manifolds is.
Endless Hierarchies Above Manifold of Manifolds
Endless hierarchies of life and mind. Which means, even if it just contains infinite dimensional multiverse (as opposed to its true nature of being able to contain all logically possible multiverse which would include Outerverses) it'd still mean there's infinite hierarchies above infinite dimensions.
Taking Manifold's nature into equation, meaning each Manifold already contains all logically possibly multiverses. And that Manifold is just one thread of collection of infinite Manifolds (collections of collections of multiverses) which have infinite hierarchies above them.
Each hierarchy itself possibly have infinite recursions. And there are infinite amount of hierarchies even if you already transcended one hierachy.
Establishing The Goddess is a Downstreamer
This is The Goddess' description :
This is description of a Downstreamer :
Its not like The Godess and The Old Ones/The Downstreamers are mutually exclusive in the first place. They can be same thing.
Michael already said that their consciousness spans the entire manifold. And The God is conscious expression of the manifold who watches (comprehend) all the infinite universes, isolating sheaf of universes to protect all sapient lifeforms from cosmic extinction events and/or asshole aliens.
So The Goddess and The Downstreamers fully scale to each other.
Conclusion
In one tiny subset of Manifold, there's 1-A realm and 1-A God ruling on it. By this alone, Tier : Solid 1-A .
1-A realm above is contained within a manifold. The latter contains infinite amount of logically possible formal systems that can be described by mathematics. Which means, by low-end (no variations), there'd be infinite 1-A realms and infinite amount of 1-A Gods. By mid-end-high-end, there'd be every kind of cosmology and dimensionally superior beings on it. Tier : At least 1-A, higher .
A manifold is contained within Manifold of Manifolds, which contains infinite manifolds (which is already At least 1-A, higher). Which means, its Tier : One degree of Infinity above At least 1-A, higher .
Manifold of Manifold itself has higher order manifold and higher order logic into infinity. At low-end, it must already contain non-classical logic systems. At high end, well, reaching into High 1-A variation is possible. Its Tier : Infinity^Infinity^(...) above At least 1-A, higher .
Proposal : Upgrade to Solid 1-A ~ At least 1-A, higher ~ much higher than that
To put simply, upgrade to [Solid 1-A] or [At least 1-A, higher] if the staff and others are feeling generous.
Establising Solid 1-A or 1-A, higher
In one tiny subset of Manifold, there's one cosmology with 1-A descriptions.
Empyrean Void
This thing is the backdrop of whole dimensional structures 'below' it. It is beyond the concept of size, dimension, structure, and laws of nature.
| And the three of them, like birds hovering beneath the domed roof of a cathedral, ascended into the Empyrean. They passed into a layer of darkness, like a storm cloud. The hemispheres of the 3-sphere—the Earth and its nested spheres, the globes of the angels—faded like stars at dawn. But Himmelfarb's eyes glowed brightly. And then, space folded away. Philmus could still see Boyle, Himmelfarb, the priest's shining eyes. But she couldn't tell how near or far the others were. And when she tried to look away from them, her eyes slid over an elusive darkness, deeper than the darkness inside her own skull. There was no structure beyond the three of them, their relative positions. She felt as small as an electron, as huge as a galaxy. She felt lost. She clung to Himmelfarb's hand. 'Where are we? How far—' | ||
~ Dante Dreams, Phase Space |
| 'We are outside the Primum Mobile: beyond duration, beyond the structure of space. Dante understood this place. "There near and far neither add nor subtract… | ||
~ Dante Dreams, Phase Space |
| Near and far do not add or subtract there, since where God rules without mediation the laws of nature have no relevance . ― Paradiso, Canto XXX (Dante) | ||
~ Dante Paradiso |
There are no concepts of 'add' and 'substract' over distance. Because in the Abode of God, laws of nature has no relevance, aka : its beyond physics.
| It was gone. She was suspended in the structureless void again. | ||
~ Dante Dreams, Phase Space |
The Truth/Unified Theory cannot be explained by mere Dimensionality
After the main girl and co. finished their trip, they are proposing new unified theory that could explain the cosmology around them.
One suggests it has something to do with unification of phenomena through higher dimensional space.
But that theory is quickly shot down by the main girl. Because mere dimensionality cannot possibly cover the nature of Empyrean, and dimensionality is merely an approximation , not the whole truth :
| This is the basis of the new unified theory,' Philmus said. 'A unification of phenomena through the structure of a higher-dimensional space.' Himmelfarb's face was turning to pixels again. 'It isn't as simple as that,' she said. 'The whole notion of dimensionality is an approximate one that only emerges in a semi-classical context—well. I don't suppose it matters now. | ||
~ Dante Dreams, Phase Space |
Manifold is governed by deeper source than physical laws. Namely, mathematics and logic, both are underlyings of reality on Manifoldverse.
As I said already, Empyrean Void is merely one cosmology in a manifold. And manifold contains infinite amount, encompassing all logical systems.
| "Cassiopeia had spent time trying to teach him about a phenomenon just a little beyond his own horizon — as chaos theory might have been to an engineer of, say, the 1950s. It was something to do with the emergence of complexity. The Gaijin seemed able to see how complexity, even life, naturally emerged from the simplest of beginnings: not fundamental physical laws, but something even deeper than that — as far as he could make out, the essential mathematical logic that underlay all things. |
| Human scientists had a glimmering of this. His own DNA somehow contained, in its few billion bases, enough information to generate a brain of three trillion connections… But for the Gaijin this principle went farther It was like being given a table of prime numbers and being able to deduce atoms and stars and people as a necessary consequence of the existence of the primes. And since prime numbers, of course, existed everywhere, it followed there was life and people, humans and Gaijin, everywhere there could be. Life sprouting everywhere, like weeds in the cracks of a pavement. It was a remarkable, chilling thought. |
In other words, mathematical concepts take the role of 'base', or probably 'Archetype'. Everything is based on them. Physical existences rely on them but mathematical concepts don't rely on physical existences.
For example : Theory of Everything regarding Hilbert Space is 'Archetype' (governing concept) of infinite dimensional multiverse. Any non-contradictive descriptions of any kind of Outerverses are 'Archetypes' (governing concept) of Outerverses in question.
| Anna's face worked. "They are considering constraints on the ultimate manifold." Maura suspected that she was going to struggle with the rest of this conversation. "The manifold of what?" "Universes. It is of course a truism that all logically possible universes must exist. The universe, this universe, is described - umm, that's the wrong word - by a formal system. Mathematics. A system of mathematics ." Maura frowned. "You mean a Theory of Everything?" Anna waved a hand, as if that were utterly trivial, and her beautiful wings rustled. "But there are many formal systems. Some of them are less rich, some more. But each formal system is logically consistent internally, describes a possible universe, which therefore exists ." |
| Whatever the origin of the manifold, within it there could be an infinite number of universes. And in an infinite ensemble, everything which is logically possible must—somewhere, somehow—come to pass . | ||
~ Phase Space |
| I imagine there's a home for every life form in the universe—perhaps, in fact, a refuge for all logically possible life forms…' | ||
~ Refugium, Phase Space |
Establishing Infinite Higher Order Hierarchy
Manifold has higher-order
| `You may be right that we come from different alternate realities, Malenfant. Two strands in some higher-order manifold of possible universes. If so, the strands don't seem to run in neat parallel lines, like lanes on a highway, do they? They must - touch - in a more complicated way. Here, in Phobos. And maybe other places like it.' He shook his head, trying to clear his thoughts. | ||
~ World Engines : Destroyer |
We might be looking at infinite outerversal hierarchy here? Considering just One Manifold (of possibly lower order) already contains all possible cosmologies.
Higher order logic, in manifold
`Impossible,' Emma said. `Experienced, impossible or not,' Bartholomew said. `There's probably a logic to all this,' Emma said. 'Just as there is probably a logic to having those five hoops in a space where only four hoops can exist. It's just that it's a - higher - logic than we are capable of seeing.' `Yeah,' Malenfant said, thinking hard. | ||
~ World Engines : Destroyer |
Infinite Hierarchy
Manifold of Manifolds
| "Of course," Babo said, "She may actually be an expression of the manifold itself — or perhaps the manifold itself, the greater structure of reality strands, is itself self-referential, in some sense conscious. Or maybe the manifold is just one thread in a greater tapestry - " "A manifold of manifolds." |
Endless Hierarchies Above Manifold of Manifolds
| "A manifold of manifolds." "And that's why there is a further recursion of structure, no end to the hierarchies of life and mind, which—" Mane held up her hands. |
Taking Manifold's nature into equation, meaning each Manifold already contains all logically possibly multiverses. And that Manifold is just one thread of collection of infinite Manifolds (collections of collections of multiverses) which have infinite hierarchies above them.
Each hierarchy itself possibly have infinite recursions. And there are infinite amount of hierarchies even if you already transcended one hierachy.
Establishing The Goddess is a Downstreamer
This is The Goddess' description :
| "She may actually be an expression of the manifold itself — or perhaps the manifold itself, the greater structure of reality strands, is itself self-referential, in some sense conscious. |
| "How do I do it?" Just tell me what you want. "Will I remember?" Consciousness spans the manifold. I don't know if I have the strength, he thought. "She'll forget me. Won't she, Michael?" I'm just a kid, he said. How would I know? Your call, Malenfant. Keep her, or give her back her life. "Do it," he whispered. … And the universe pivoted around him, the lines of possibility swirling, knitting new patterns of truth and dream, and he clutched at the boy. | ||
~ Manifold Time |
Michael already said that their consciousness spans the entire manifold. And The God is conscious expression of the manifold who watches (comprehend) all the infinite universes, isolating sheaf of universes to protect all sapient lifeforms from cosmic extinction events and/or asshole aliens.
So The Goddess and The Downstreamers fully scale to each other.
Conclusion
In one tiny subset of Manifold, there's 1-A realm and 1-A God ruling on it. By this alone, Tier : Solid 1-A .
1-A realm above is contained within a manifold. The latter contains infinite amount of logically possible formal systems that can be described by mathematics. Which means, by low-end (no variations), there'd be infinite 1-A realms and infinite amount of 1-A Gods. By mid-end-high-end, there'd be every kind of cosmology and dimensionally superior beings on it. Tier : At least 1-A, higher .
A manifold is contained within Manifold of Manifolds, which contains infinite manifolds (which is already At least 1-A, higher). Which means, its Tier : One degree of Infinity above At least 1-A, higher .
Manifold of Manifold itself has higher order manifold and higher order logic into infinity. At low-end, it must already contain non-classical logic systems. At high end, well, reaching into High 1-A variation is possible. Its Tier : Infinity^Infinity^(...) above At least 1-A, higher .
Proposal : Upgrade to Solid 1-A ~ At least 1-A, higher ~ much higher than that
