The King’s Last Jester - Joker vs Gilgamesh

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Hax =/= actual tier. Since when has layers actually meant someone is layers into the tier? Authority kinda works like a scaling chain but also adds layers for each member of the chain's hax.

If he is 6-D, and Gilgamesh is 6-D, then he can’t stomp him. That’s very simple. If Ren hits him with fire, and he has 20 LAYERED RESISTANCES to fire, he’s not going to die.

I'm not acting like a warrior I'm calling shit where I see it. You pretty much set this up to be a stomp in your arguments, because if Gil actually can't do anything to hit Ren like your arguing then this is a stomp because Gil lacks a way to hit Ren.

Go report me then if you think I’m making a stomp spite match. Like he can’t just use Power Nullification to nullify Null/Reflect Physical, or Enkidu. It’s so blatant, genuinely, look at the profiles but you wanna try aiming a knife at my throat.

... anyways

if Gilgamesh has that many layers of resistance, isn't subjective reality going to win out? and since you guys consider hax useless compared to cosmology, wouldn't Ren's reflection be useless while he's 5-D?

I already said Ren’s specific resistance to subjective reality is 1-A being in the Atziluth, Gilgamesh still has other abilities that you listed, like his own 1-A ability, or what I listed.

 

[CrystalValley]

Didn't milly like, just say that Ren has a 1-A resistance to subjective reality?

did he? it must've been a reply to you since I only kinda skimmed over his replies to you since I'm kinda in a hurry. but what about the whole attack reflection thing at 5-D not being able to work?

 

[CrystalValley]

If he is 6-D, and Gilgamesh is 6-D, then he can’t stomp him. That’s very simple. If Ren hits him with fire, and he has 20 LAYERED RESISTANCES to fire, he’s not going to die.



Go report me then if you think I’m making a stomp spite match. Like he can’t just use Power Nullification to nullify Null/Reflect Physical, or Enkidu. It’s so blatant, genuinely, look at the profiles but you wanna try aiming a knife at my throat.



I already said Ren’s specific resistance to subjective reality is 1-A being in the Atziluth, Gilgamesh still has other abilities that you listed, like his own 1-A ability, or what I listed.

yeah sorry. I must've missed that. and I'm still not sure if this wiki agrees to his 1-A Seventh Holy Scripture. though i'm 90% sure they rate it as such and mention in his profile that GoB has all weapons from humanity that aren't made by alien tech, which would include that. if it does count, it would be 1-A concept destruction and numerous regeneration negations if I remember correctly.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

yeah sorry. I must've missed that. and I'm still not sure if this wiki agrees to his 1-A Seventh Holy Scripture. though i'm 90% sure they rate it as such and mention in his profile that GoB has all weapons from humanity that aren't made by alien tech, which would include that. if it does count, it would be 1-A concept destruction and numerous regeneration negations if I remember correctly.

No problem, I have no ire with you.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I still have my issues with MT subjective reality. not in terms of scale but how it works.

Morgana specifically states they gain their suits in response to another’s Cognition to protect against the effects.

 

[CrystalValley]

Morgana specifically states they gain their suits in response to another’s Cognition to protect against the effects.

well I'll look into it some more in my free time anyways since the general concept of how that stuff works in MT is neat. gonna sit this one out for a bit until things cool off and just watch for now. but I do disagree with the claim that your intention is to make a stomp match.

 

[DaReaperMan]

If he is 6-D, and Gilgamesh is 6-D, then he can’t stomp him. That’s very simple. If Ren hits him with fire, and he has 20 LAYERED RESISTANCES to fire, he’s not going to die.



Go report me then if you think I’m making a stomp spite match. Like he can’t just use Power Nullification to nullify Null/Reflect Physical, or Enkidu. It’s so blatant, genuinely, look at the profiles but you wanna try aiming a knife at my throat.



I already said Ren’s specific resistance to subjective reality is 1-A being in the Atziluth, Gilgamesh still has other abilities that you listed, like his own 1-A ability, or what I listed.

If he becomes 6-D as soon as Gilgamesh whips out Ea to do an attack then it isn't even close, he can just reflect it. If Ren can't reflect or dodge enuma elish he dies, simple as that and he can't do a single thing ever.

I wouldn't report you even if I did genuinely think this was a spite stomp(I don't, I think you know this is a stomp, nothing more)

yeah sorry. I must've missed that. and I'm still not sure if this wiki agrees to his 1-A Seventh Holy Scripture. though i'm 90% sure they rate it as such and mention in his profile that GoB has all weapons from humanity that aren't made by alien tech, which would include that. if it does count, it would be 1-A concept destruction and numerous regeneration negations if I remember correctly.

Not on the profile cause he's never used it and probably doesn't even know about it. Contrary to popular belief Gilgamesh actually doesn't know too much about 99.9% of shit in his collection. You'd have to hard argue it to be added cause otherwise Gil straight up doesn't have it.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

well I'll look into it some more in my free time anyways since the general concept of how that stuff works in MT is neat. gonna sit this one out for a bit until things cool off and just watch for now. but I do disagree with the claim that your intention is to make a stomp match.

Understanding & Ren’s resistance are a good start point.

If he becomes 6-D as soon as Gilgamesh whips out Ea to do an attack then it isn't even close, he can just reflect it. If Ren can't reflect or dodge enuma elish he dies, simple as that and he can't do a single thing ever.

Why would it kill Ren?

I wouldn't report you even if I did genuinely think this was a spite stomp(I don't, I think you know this is a stomp, nothing more)

Yeah, sure lol.

 

[CrystalValley]

If he becomes 6-D as soon as Gilgamesh whips out Ea to do an attack then it isn't even close, he can just reflect it. If Ren can't reflect or dodge enuma elish he dies, simple as that and he can't do a single thing ever.

I wouldn't report you even if I did genuinely think this was a spite stomp(I don't, I think you know this is a stomp, nothing more)

Not on the profile cause he's never used it and probably doesn't even know about it. Contrary to popular belief Gilgamesh actually doesn't know too much about 99.9% of shit in his collection. You'd have to hard argue it to be added cause otherwise Gil straight up doesn't have it.

isn't that non-CCC Gilgamesh that doesn't really use SNI to his fullest? he logically should know of what's in his treasury if he uses that to his fullest. BB would've likely slapped him if all he did was mindlessly spam GoB until something worked out due to how much stuff she has at her disposal via the Moon Cell which would include the stuff recorded from the Earth and has the same things for the most part.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Why would it kill Ren?

Yeah, sure lol.

6-D Space-time manip in the form of a dura neg IIRC.

isn't that non-CCC Gilgamesh that doesn't really use SNI to his fullest? he logically should know of what's in his treasury if he uses that to his fullest.

I'm not 100% sure this key of Gil uses SNI to the fullest, and it shows Gil possible futures, he has to decide which one is actually real and act accordingly, but Gil doesn't know a lot about most of the weapons in his treasury, only general abilities he can use while YEETING them and what grade of NP they are. If I'm wrong I'll probably be corrected on this

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

6-D Space-time manip in the form of a dura neg IIRC.

He has regeneration, though.

 

[DaReaperMan]

He has regeneration, though.

Mid-low regeneration that can vaguely be increased is not saving Ren from Enuma Elish.

 

[CrystalValley]

6-D Space-time manip in the form of a dura neg IIRC.

I'm not 100% sure this key of Gil uses SNI to the fullest, and it shows Gil possible futures, he has to decide which one is actually real and act accordingly, but Gil doesn't know a lot about most of the weapons in his treasury, only general abilities he can use while YEETING them and what grade of NP they are. If I'm wrong I'll probably be corrected on this

i understand. though I believe that SNI discerns great truths in general like knowing all about opponents and abilities, so you think he could use it on himself. also if he can generally tell the rank of his weapons, he should realize there's a 1-A level weapon in his vault and use it.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Mid-low regeneration that can vaguely be increased is not saving Ren from Enuma Elish.

Okay, can you explain? It doesn’t have regeneration negation on the profile.

 

[DaReaperMan]

i understand. though I believe that SNI discerns great truths in general like knowing all about opponents and abilities, so you think he could use it on himself. also if he can generally tell the rank of his weapons, he should realize there's a 1-A level weapon in his vault and use it.

That too, though I don't think he uses it in himself. It'd be vaguely like EX-rank I think lol

Okay, can you explain? It doesn’t have regeneration negation on the profile.

Mid-low regen is deep injuries or severe burns going by the regeneration profile. That is not what a blast that is a beam of winds that tear apart space and time on a 6-D scale with 6-D AOE is gonna do.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Alright. Responding tomorrow. My head is clear, so I apologize for hostilities.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I apologize for my own.

Though I can't stress enough that unless Ren has like, Godly regeneration or something(I don't know lol, I'm trying to decide what regen you'd need to survive Enuma Elish) he is beyond ****** if he can't reflect Enuma Elish lol

 

[Loyd]

For such a grandiose concept Ea haxes are kinda shit ngl.

If a character had low godly and Ea wiped them with 6-D spacetime hax can they regen afterwords?

 

[CrystalValley]

That too, though I don't think he uses it in himself. It'd be vaguely like EX-rank I think lol

Mid-low regen is deep injuries or severe burns going by the regeneration profile. That is not what a blast that is a beam of winds that tear apart space and time on a 6-D scale with 6-D AOE is gonna do.

pretty sure STAR rank is above EX. and we're talking about a 1-A weapon, so it'd at least be Star rank. and that's likely the only weapon that would fit that rank. i find it hard to believe he could not notice such a powerful thing.

though maybe a thread discussing the nature of Gilgamesh's GoB is in order sometime later.

 

[DaReaperMan]

For such a grandiose concept Ea haxes are kinda shit ngl.

If a character had low godly and Ea wiped them with 6-D spacetime hax can they regen afterwords?

Most likely unless Gilgamesh has it target the juicy stuff every Servant can attack if needed (concepts, souls and the like)

pretty sure STAR rank is above EX. and we're talking about a 1-A weapon, so it'd at least be Star rank. and that's likely the only weapon that would fit that rank. i find it hard to believe he could not notice such a powerful thing.

though maybe a thread discussing the nature of Gilgamesh's GoB is in order sometime later.

You should probably make a CRT laying out all of its feats and such And if it would be in GoB or not

 

[Loyd]

Most likely unless Gilgamesh has it target the juicy stuff every Servant can attack if needed (concepts, souls and the like)

yea after the most recent major fate upgrade i think Ea is missing some haxes on its weapon page tbh

picturing Aizen or Gerard regen and shrug off full powered Ea doesn't sound right.

 

[CrystalValley]

Most likely unless Gilgamesh has it target the juicy stuff every Servant can attack if needed (concepts, souls and the like)

You should probably make a CRT laying out all of its feats and such And if it would be in GoB or not

not needed. in terms of it being in GoB, the profiles on this wiki say all things that are from humanity not made by alien tech are in his GoB, which means the Seventh Holy Scripture would automatically be included. so yeah I'm abiding by what's already established on the profiles. the Seventh Holy Scripture is also already listed on Ciel's profile, so this wiki does have info on it.

but anyways, I'm going to take a break from this for a while and just watch passively for a bit. may jump in a bit later.

 

[DaReaperMan]

yea after the most recent major fate upgrade i think Ea is missing some haxes on its weapon page tbh

picturing Aizen or Gerard regen and shrug off full powered Ea doesn't sound right.

I mean, if you can find some shit that has Ea have more stuff then be my guest lol

Gil can attack their concepts if needed so they would not even be able to shrug off non-full power Ea if Gil did that. Yes Ea retains it's 6-D space and time hax when not at full power. That's why it's pretty much hailed as an instant win move most of the time lol

not needed. in terms of it being in GoB, the profiles on this wiki say all things that are from humanity not made by alien tech are in his GoB, which means the Seventh Holy Scripture would automatically be included. so yeah I'm abiding by what's already established on the profiles.

but anyways, I'm going to take a break from this for a while and just watch passively for a bit. may jump in a bit later.

I'd prefer to be confirmed so to say lol

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Why would it kill Ren?

AP advantage i guess. Low 1-C nasu are infinitely above baseline 6D because some of Top Tier it was able to destroy infinite parallel world where every world contain 6th Dimension.

For such a grandiose concept Ea haxes are kinda shit ngl.

If a character had low godly and Ea wiped them with 6-D spacetime hax can they regen afterwords?

I think EA has something like concept, soul, and info hax in case gilgamesh needs it. because each servant is able to apply spiritual attacks capable of attacking the spirit origin.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

picturing Aizen or Gerard regen and shrug off full powered Ea doesn't sound right

Gilgamesh still has a conceptual weapon that can negate regeneration and type 4 immo via causality negation and concept hax. Low-Godly up to Mid-Godly no problem for Gil

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Gilgamesh also has passive power null which will seal the opponent's ability before they use the ability, I don't see resistance to power null in Ren's profile.

 

[Loyd]

Is that via his subjective reality Ten crowns?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Gilgamesh also has passive power null which will seal the opponent's ability before they use the ability, I don't see resistance to power null in Ren's profile.

Where is that at?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I also concede Ren wouldn’t regenerate from EA.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Where is that at?

At second key, via Ten Crown.

All previous abilities, along with Acausality (Type 1), Subjective Reality (Has Ten Crowns EX added, which is noted to be the same ability as BB's Ten Crowns EX, which passively negates attacks), Immersion (Can travel back and forth from the Imaginary Number space, and Real Number Space), Statistics Amplification (The Mythological Mystic Code allows Gilgamesh to freely raise his parameters at will), Power Nullification (Can nullify BB's Ten Crowns).

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

At second key, via Ten Crown.

He does that via his 10 Crowns? If so Ren resists subjective reality.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

He does that via his 10 Crowns? If so Ren resists subjective reality.

no, this is different from subjective reality, Ten Crown has two abilities, that is negating attacks (subjective reality) and sealing abilities (power nullification)

 

[Loyd]

Do you have a scan stating its a seperate ability and not a byproduct of subjective reality? the justification "its nulls BB" is only sending me to the subjective reality page

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Same.

 

[CrystalValley]

He does that via his 10 Crowns? If so Ren resists subjective reality.

going by his profile, power nullification is something else that isn't Ten Crowns. though between you and me, he really just cancelled BB's Ten Crowns by having the same thing.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

The Spiritron Hackers searched for abilities capable of sealing other abilities, and Gil's Ten Crown was created then. Ten Crown will always be active when it was created.

 

[CrystalValley]

realistically, Gilgamesh just countered Ten Crowns by having the same thing and because of this, they cancelled each other out since both people had them. even his subjective reality images linked on his profile points this out. but whatever honestly.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Uhh, idk enough Fate to contest or debate it, so I’ll let you guys settle it.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

realistically, Gilgamesh just countered Ten Crowns by having the same thing and because of this, they cancelled each other out since both people had them. even his subjective reality images linked on his profile points this out. but whatever honestly.

To be honest, Gil's Ten Crown is not exactly the same as BB's, soooo

Actually Gil only has the same ability as Ten Crown, which can make something non-existent, but gil's ability is not literally Ten Crown

 

[Orioreeem]

Even if Ten Crowns is with Subjective Reality pretty sure you'd need to resist both SR and Power Null