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The King of Heroes vs A Loser in Highschool

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Iapitus The Impaler said:
Perhaps, but Ea essentally makes it so Kumagawa never existed. So it wouldn't work that same way. Not all existence erasure is created equal. Also, some kinds of existence erasure would make it so there is nothing to restore. If there is no concept of Kumagawa anymore, then even undoing the action would not bring him back
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I don't think Ea is that through though. Ea's destruction isn't a Conceptual attack, it just tears apart reality(Boy, ain't that a sentince).

Oh yeah,

Kumagawa - 4

Gilgamesh - 0
 
" I don't think Ea is that through though. Ea's destruction isn't a Conceptual attack, it just tears apart reality(Boy, ain't that a sentince). "

well... I should clarify that Ea does apparently have authority to it, so it does have some level of conceptual manipulation. But fair enough. More what I was focussing on was the part about essentially making it like Kumagawa never existed
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
Perhaps, but Ea essentally makes it so Kumagawa never existed. So it wouldn't work that same way. Not all existence erasure is created equal. Also, some kinds of existence erasure would make it so there is nothing to restore. If there is no concept of Kumagawa anymore, then even undoing the action would not bring him back

This I disagree with. Styles are not abnormailities, in fact they are superior. Styles are essentially weaponised Writing Styles, and not comparable. They can seal the unsealable, damage the udamagable, heal the unhealable, etc. Its not explained how Kumagawa or Ajimu broke out of that particular style, so I wouldn't assume off of something like that.

this last part is fine tho
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What do u mean? Kumagawa said he got out because he's the same "sealing ability user". http://a.fanfox.net/store/manga/585...2376ea4a61d3de9db1fd403784b7b0&ttl=1523714400

And i wouldn't say "styles are superior", there was never a scene that proves styles are superior they just work differently, they work with words and understanding. (Im guessing ur talking about how styles affect Iihiko, but abnormalities don't, that is based on the fact that they work differntly, all u need for a style to work is the person to "hear" you, and since Iihiko could hear ppl styles worked on him, there is also a plot reason but i'll explain that another time).

As for existence erasure, idk what type of erasure Gil has but Kumagawa is a "causality manipulation". So he erases the cause for something and therefore erases it. He erases the action (the cause his body was erased) and therefore brings the body back, same for death. As we established All Fiction will automatically do it since it won't be erased along with the body.
 
ApiesDeathbyLazors said:
Kumagawa - 5
Gilgamesh - 0

I love Medaka Box so much. It's such a dumb manga.
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Did u mean "geniusly dumb"? xD Also yeah 1 of my fav shows of all time. 1 of my fav things is the fact that Medaka is easily 1 of the strongest characters in fiction (if we count Ajimu's abilites) yet they only show moon busting, they r like "yeah that's all we gonna show, whatcha gonna do about it?" xD
 
Homu Sweet Homu said:
If Kumugawa can beat Gil, then shouldn't his lost against Medaka be removed? Medaka is even more haxed than Kumugawa after all.
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Medaka fought Full-Powered Gil

This was Base Gil

Huge power difference.
 
ApiesDeathbyLazors said:
Homu Sweet Homu said:
If Kumugawa can beat Gil, then shouldn't his lost against Medaka be removed? Medaka is even more haxed than Kumugawa after all.
Click to expand...
Medaka fought Full-Powered Gil
This was Base Gil

Huge power difference.
Click to expand...
Idk much about Gil, but can full power Gil beat Kumagawa?
 
Well, OG power Gil starts out at 5-A, where as this Gil ends at 5-B. Full power Gil also has Resistances to Matter, Mind, Soul, Information, Probablity, Time, Causality, Life, Death, and Fate Manip, plus resistance to Reality Warping, Power Null, and Illusion Creation and has Time Paradox Immunity. Apperently. I've only ever watched Fate/Zero.
 
That wank... All Fiction has absolutely 0 feats of working on EE and conceptual EE.

"But it erases the action". Conceptual Erasure will literally say "hello AF, die." And AF will be erased. Resistance to power null =/= resistance to power erasure.
 
SchroKatze said:
That wank... All Fiction has absolutely 0 feats of working on EE and conceptual EE.
"But it erases the action". Conceptual Erasure will literally say "hello AF, die." And AF will be erased. Resistance to power null =/= resistance to power erasure.
Click to expand...
wut?
 
Apies,you forget something,5-A Gil also have EE resistance too,we the nasuverse nerds agree that Gil,Karna,Arcueid,and Buddha have EE resistance.
 
Is that Existence Erasure? Not doubting you or anything, but it's not mentioned on his profile. Unless that's grouped under Reality Warping? Also Gil has Probabilty Manip twice under his 5-A resistances.
 
We agreeing that the 4 character i mention get that resistance,but until now it was not get updated,only Arcueid who get that,leaving the 3 need an update.
 
Wait what? When have we ever gotten anything showing Kumagawa being capable of remaking himself from something on the level of Ea? Ea is an Anti World Noble Phantasm exactly because it rips up pretty much everything equally without discrimination beyond simply physically erasing them. I could understand if he had, but what death of his has ever shown him being subjected to anything but normal death without a single scrap of his body left? And even more, a death that goes beyond merely riping his body apart, because Ea is not only gonna do that.

As for what Firephoenix said, Styles ARE superior. As long as they get across to someone, they achieve things nobody else can like undoing the destruction Iihiko inflicts on the world, sealing Kumagawa and others and apparently pulling the moon to the world. You can say it's just par for the course of Medaka Box that Medaka needs to be the one left behind because of what the author is trying to set up for the plot, yet Kumagawa should be able to dispel whatever the Style of Professor Fukurou is doing to pull the Moon to the Earth, or whatever the lullaby Style is doing to regress all of their bodies to younger states, yet HE DOESN'T. Even more so, getting sealed by the little kid looking suitor was, as implied by the text, something he escaped not because All Fiction this shit, but because there was some correlation with his Bookmaker and her style. He even clarifies that the sealing thingy isn't the same, but the assumption is not wrong.

I'd say it's fair to express that All Fiction still has it's limits, and nothing is honestly convincing me that limit is above Ea. You can point to Medaka's Box plot to poke holes at what I said pertaining using All Fiction, but I am not sure how good of an excuse that is. I'd even go ahead and say Gil may have something to impede something like All Fiction due to the nature of GoB, but without precedents to cement such a claim it's pretty much baseless so I can only go for Ea making sure he stays dead.
 
I think the reason All Fiction trumps Ea here, in this match, is not because All Fiction can undo Ea's effects but because All Fictions faster. Ea has a charge up phase while All Fiction happens instantly. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Isn't that just in appearence? If we went by that, I think it would be easy enough for Saber to overwhelm Gilgamesh since Excalibur can be released in under a second, but that has been obviously proved wrong before. Her Instinct isn't perfect, but if it could tell her to move for the almost non existent hole in Sasaki's otherwise unavoidable attack just because she damaged his katana a little, I am VERY skeptical it couldn't tell her that the crazy douche she hates can't unload faster than she can.

Not to mention, Gilgamesh plays around as much as Kumagawa does. Even when he was a total nutjob before his rehabilitatio, how many times did he actually delete someone themselves instead of just beating them with his screws? The only time I honestly remember it happening was on Zenkichi with April Fiction, to give Shiranui a hard scare. He didn't try this even when his still unhinged self got more mad than we have ever seen him become, the time Zenkichi came back from death and he guessed quite correctly it was Ajimu's doing. Furthermore, he's used to people like Medaka and getting killed or maimed by everyone like it's an everyday thing, unless he's forcibly bloodlusted I don't see Kumagawa going for Gil himself even if he's a weird dude with a lot of power.
 
In another thread Reppuzan said this


"Ea really doesn't take that long to charge.

All he has to say is Enuma Elish before firing it. It's always dragged out in the anime and games for dramatic effect, just like Excalibur."
 
Like I said, Excalibur. All Saber would have to do is shot faster than Ea, yet when she can fire off in less than a second, this was never brought up. Either he's as fast, or PIS for Saber.
 
Well PIS isn't anything new, now is it?

Other then that the match has already been requested with 7-0 for Kumagawa. If the debate reopens with good, concrete proof otherwise will it matter? I'm not trying to shoot down Gil's chances, just wondering.
 
That's... not a good counter argument.

Shouldn't have we entered the grace period if it's already at 7-0? And I mean, we are right here and can still debate it. Unless someone can point out anything wrong with my statements I don't know, but admittedly I am still new to the site. May be misunderstanding something.
 
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