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The Hunter (Bloodborne) vs. Azami (Mekakucity)

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Keeweed said:
The hunter's never become comatose/unable to move before. The presence wants him to be functional; if he isn't functioning then he'll restart the fight. The reason he doesn't interfere without fights is because the hunter is still fighting and possibly may win that time around but if the hunter is stone for an hour the presence is going to know something is up.
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He has never been comatose/unable to move before, therefore it is fallacious to assume what the Presense would do in that situation. This might be incon, actually, in that case. Either the presense unfreezes him or it doesn't, we have no way of knowing.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
Because claiming "lolmoonpresence" is NLF. Because the Moon Presence doesn't bother with every single status effect the Hunter gets. Because the Hunter isn't dead in this state. Because there's an equally high as chance the Hunter is just thrown into the Heat Haze.
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None of the status effects in the game make the hunter completely unable to move and the hunter can survive all of them without the moon presence. Comparing them to petrification is a huge false equivalency
 
There is also one thing I really want to know though, what counts "beggining of the game" hunter to you, is that before or after amelia?

Because if it's before, he has barly any acces to weaponry, and if it's before Gascoigne then he has barly anything but starting gear to fight with, and has a massive dissadvantage equipment-vise.
 
@Weekly Bold Hunters isn't instant. Not "whenever he wants", it requires some movement, whatever it is when he looks like he's eating it, and so on.

No, it isn't death because it is literally shown to not be death.

Azami has two, BFR, Petrification, and being a being made of data.
 
I mean, being petrified would probably kill you with the whole having no more functioning organs or tissue at all thing. You can revive from petridication in dark souls, not sure if curse showed up in bloodborne.
 
So, why would we start assuming the Moon Presence's actions on something that has never happened in-game?
 
Mr. Bambu said:
@Weekly Bold Hunters isn't instant. Not "whenever he wants", it requires some movement, whatever it is when he looks like he's eating it, and so on.

No, it isn't death because it is literally shown to not be death.

Azami has two, BFR, Petrification, and being a being made of data.
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Yes it is and its to the last lamp the Hunter was at

Being a rock means youre dead, this is not an arguable point, its a fact

BFr doesnt work because bold hunter mark, Petrification doesnt work because moon presence
 
So, why would we start assuming the Moon Presence's actions on something that has never happened in-game? </div> Because we know how the Moon Presence thinks and what its motives are and what it needs the Hunter for
 
@Bambu and Dargoo You guys are arguing solely on the assumption that the Presence for some reason would see the Hunter petrified and think "Welp, guess i cant do anything now even though i can reverse time so he was never petrified. Guess this guy who is imperative to my plan is now useless."
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Petrification doesnt work because moon presence
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Already went over this. You're making wild assumptions on something the Presence has never reacted to.

And no, Petrification doesn't kill in many cases. Considering Azami can undo it, I don't see why hers would.
 
Wokistan... not really? But as said, this petrification isn't becoming dead, people come back from it without resurrection all the time. This petrification IS something you can come back from.

What we know is Moon Presence only time manips if Hunter is killed. Here he is merely incapacitated.
 
I should point out that the moon presence has intelligence above all of human kind meaning it not doing anything about the person he's needs functioning being turned to stone would be incredible stupid on it's part.
 
Dargoo Faust said:
Already went over this. You're making wild assumptions on something the Presence has never reacted to.

And no, Petrification doesn't kill in many cases.
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No, the one making a wild assumption is you, the Presence needs the Hunter alive and functioning, which he isnt when he's a rock. He'd reverse time.

Being a rock = not alive in a biological sense
 
I mean, it's a likely in character action, and some speculation is inevitable for these sorts of things. It's admittedly bizarre for the MP to just let this one specific method of death work when the others aren't allowed to go throigt when it has the power to fix that, after all. Not sure as of now though. Does anyone happen to rrmemrrmemrem if curse was a thing in bloodborne?
 
@Weekly You're operating purely on the assumption that Moon Presence looks at the Hunter being turned to stone and actively decides to intervene, which it has never done since the time manip is largely a passive effect of the dream and ISN'T THE MOON PRESENCE COMING IN EVERY TIME.

We even see this because the Dream continues to revive you despite battling against and dying to the Moon Presence.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
No, the one making a wild assumption is you, the Presence needs the Hunter alive and functioning, which he isnt when he's a rock. He'd reverse time.
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You're still assuming how it would react on something that doesn't happen in Bloodborne. It doesn't act with timehax on anything other than death, it's on the profile. So please make a CRT if it's that big of an issue for you instead of denying it.
 
I may have just missed it higher up, but I don't see how BB Hunter can affect a being of data. Also, does this petrification specifically leave people alive? Is there a default assimptass to this?
 
Curse is a thing but as said in my first post, it is left purposefully ambiguous. It can cause damage but doesn't seem to be a huge burden on those hit. I wouldn't classify Bloodborne's brand of curses to be hax. Sadly.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
Wokistan... not really? But as said, this petrification isn't becoming dead, people come back from it without resurrection all the time. This petrification IS something you can come back from.

What we know is Moon Presence only time manips if Hunter is killed. Here he is merely incapacitated.
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Yes but the Presence doesnt know this and has no reason to not rewind the hunter to reverse the petrification.


What we know is the Moon Presence needs the Hunter alive and functioning so he can continue her plan to kill all the Great Ones. If the Hunter is petrified he cant do this, so she'd rewind him
 
Yes, it does leave people alive. Azami's ability is an enhanced version of Marry's.

And yeah, IDK how the Hunter is going to hit or kill something made of digital data. Before you say "muh noncorporeal negation", hitting a ghost and hitting information are two very different things.
 
Wokistan said:
I may have just missed it higher up, but I don't see how BB Hunter can affect a being of data. Also, does this petrification specifically leave people alive? Is there a default assimptass to this?
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The data thing isnt combat applicable
 
@Wokistan IIRC they leave foes alive, yes (been years since I bothered with the anime though). No, the Hunter cannot harm a being of data. And finally, the Moon Presence, in character, just finds another Hunter- like I said, it has done so in the past. Djura and Eileen both reference dreaming, as in, they used to be the Moon Presence's favorite boy/girl.
 
I meant it as in the dark souls petrification status that would kill the PC then they would rez from. That happening in bloodborne would settle this more concretely than guesswork around what the moon presence would do and the mechanics of the Hunter's dream. Accursed dream is just like a Bloodnorne fireball.
 
Dargoo Faust said:
You're still assuming how it would react on something that doesn't happen in Bloodborne. It doesn't act with timehax on anything other than death, it's on the profile. So please make a CRT if it's that big of an issue for you instead of denying it.
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Gladly, i'll make it right now
 
@Weekly MP needs a Hunter. Not the Hunter we play as.
 
I mean, personally speaking, if I saw someone around completely turned to stone to the point where neither their brain or any other bodly functions is working, I would pretty much sum them up as dead, even if it was only temporarly it's not like I would know that.
 
I can consider a possum dead if it isn't dead. Considering something dead does not immediately mean they are dead @Mefre.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
I can consider a possum dead if it isn't dead. Considering something dead does not immediately mean they are dead @Mefre.
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Since when do possums turn themselves to rocks and cease all bodily functions? Again, massive false equivalency
 
But it doesn't matter if they're dead it matters if the moon presence thinks they're dead (or not functioninal)
 
Keeweed said:
But it doesn't matter if they're dead it matters if the moon presence thinks they're dead (or not functioninal)
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We wouldn't know what it's thinking.

We don't know how it would react in this situation.

So it's wrong to assume its actions.

Therefore, inconclusive.
 
@Weekly No, because Bloodborne isn't a game to scream the plot at you. What we know is that Eileen and Djura both had access to the Hunter's Dream, the thing that keeps the Hunter alive, passively. Additionally, you blatantly just ignored my other point.
 
Dargoo Faust said:
We wouldn't know what it's thinking.

We don't know how it would react in this situation.

So it's wrong to assume its actions.

Therefore, inconclusive.
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Yes we would as we know how it thinks, we dont need to assume anything as we already know what it would do
 
That video says for a few minutes, and what's to stop the hunter from mantaining eye contact? Already dealt with the Brain of Mensis which was sorta like that. Though, I also don't see a way around the data thing. At best, this seems inconclusive. At worst a stomp if bloodborne can't affect the other.
 
@Weekly Metaphors are metaphors. The point is, something may seem dead if it isn't. No strawman in my threads.
 
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