The Fate of The Dark One: Yhwach vs Rumplestiltskin (8-0-4) --- Yhwach Wins

[MostPowerfull]

@Warren

No. Yhwach manipulate his future, does not mean he will be able to see Rumple future. He was not able to do this with anyone who has resistance to Precog except himself and which alone is a contradiction, since such acausality has no future.

Merlin, according to Archdemon, was able to see thousands of years in the future to talk to Emma, but was unable to see Emma's future when she became a Dark One. Rumple have the power of 25+ Dark One's combined.

 

[AppleLord]

@Apple

I said that his Almighty did not get one up, after all, what he did was absorb the powers of Mimihagi. Your almighty is the same from beginning to end.

I'm not so sure. Yhwach only started showing the Almighty ability to change the future after absorbing the Soul King. He intended to seal Seireitei in the time he absorbed the Soul King but never changed the future to where Seireitei was already sealed and decide to shot down the black goo through his finger instead. It got upgraded.

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Apple

He changed his fate against Ichibe, using the Almighty to deny his conceptual manipulation.

 

[Paul_Frank]

or Yhwach just was able to see his own future because Kubo realized it would be dumb to remove the almighty by having Yhwach absorb mimihagi, not because he gained the ability to precog acasuals

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

They are tied to the story and can still use powers that control the story, because that is how plothax works

So all of them still tied to the story aka still fictional character, but can use powers that control the story
You know what powers that can control the story or destiny or fate? fate manipulation.

Fate users controls fate, but they are still tied to the plot and cant do shit about it since they cant change it

You cant beat someone with author powers like and PIS, by just controlling fate

 

[Warren_Valion]

@Warren
Because Rumple used the powers of the Author via Henry's Faith. But he did not really have the feather (at least he did not use it, because he could not). He possessed the pen for a few moments, only to hand her over to Henry.

This is a clear contradiction, if he has such acausality, then he has no past or future.
Rumple can not be seen in the future and his Almighty did not receive an up because of the absorption of Mimihagi (which he could not predict).

I do not remember him blasting anyone with TK, but I think it's relevant!

He shouldn't be considered one of the users of the quill if he doesn't use the quill though.


It's not a contradiction, it just foes to show how powerful Yhwach's vision is. You can have a power that bypasses resistances.


He uses it on Ichibe , and on Ichigo, here as well. He uses it all the time.

 

[AppleLord]

@Apple

He changed his fate against Ichibe, using the Almighty to deny his conceptual manipulation.

That's not possible. You're telling me he choose a none existent future? Because there's no future in which he can change a power null ability when are futures are Yhwach without any powers whatsoever and having physical stats with that of an ant.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

@Most

Care to prove his Almighy didn't get better? He never showcased such powers before absorbing Mimi and after absorbing, he did. Seems pretty obvious his precog got amped.

Also arguing fiction can't do the impossible is an argument from incredulity. Go tell Legends SW that they cant mindhax robots.

 

[Warren_Valion]

@Warren
I meant that he can manipulate his own destiny. But his causality resembles type 4 because he resists manipulating the causality of Orihime however an explanation is needed.

Type 4 was rejected.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Fate users controls fate, but they are still tied to the plot and cant do shit about it since they cant change it

You cant beat someone with author powers like and PIS, by just controlling fate

Plot manipulation depends on the potency of the power - it isn't inherently greater than fate manipulation.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Yeah, there is that too

 

[MachTwo]

Fate users controls fate, but they are still tied to the plot and cant do shit about it since they cant change it

You cant beat someone with author powers like and PIS, by just controlling fate

Plot is fate or destiny of the verse and If you talking in technical detail, fictional chars with author powers doesn't work in fiction

You know what. What Rumple will starts with in chars? how often he will use his plot manip?

 

[MostPowerfull]

But he is a user of pen power.

No. Acausality Type 2 have neither future nor past. If Yhwach saw his future, it means that he is not a temporal singularity, he exists in the future.

Well, his explosion did not reduce it to ashes, so I believe Rumple Regenerationn. As Yhwach negate Regenerationn works changing the future and you can not do this with Rumple, I do not know how it would work in it and also do not know the level of Regenerationn it denies, it is not specified on the page.

 

[Warren_Valion]

@Apple
He changed his fate against Ichibe, using the Almighty to deny his conceptual manipulation.

He negated the power, he didn't change his fate.

That's what is stated in the series at that moment.


The only time Yhwach changed his own Fate was when he resurrected himself.

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Anonymous

It has not been said and he predicting his own future is a contradiction. And he changed his fate against Ichibe, denying the events with the Almighty.

I do not give a damn about it.

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Warren

Almighty is a combination of powers. He uses everyone at once, so he changed his destiny by denying what Ichibe.

 

[MachTwo]

@Anonymous
It has not been said and he predicting his own future is a contradiction. And he changed his fate against Ichibe, denying the events with the Almighty.

I do not give a damn about it.

Are you serious?

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Mach

What does this have to do with what I said? This is the Almighty's explanation at its core. Still a contradiction Yhwach precogs your on future, with have a Acausality Type 2 haxx.

Almighty is a broken combination of powers.

 

[Warren_Valion]

But he is a user of pen power.
No. Acausality Type 2 have neither future nor past. If Rumple saw his future, it means that he is not a temporal singularity, he exists in the future.

Well, his explosion did not reduce it to ashes, so I believe Rumple Regenerationn. As Yhwach negate Regenerationn works changing the future and you can not do this with Rumple, I do not know how it would work in it and also do not know the level of Regenerationn it denies, it is not specified on the page.

If he still isn't a user of the quill though, then he shouldn't be listed as one - that just brings confusion, as seen with this conversation.


That's not how that works. Just because a character has a resistance to an ability, does not mean that this ability can't be bypassed by a stronger variation of said power. Yhwach's vision being able to see such a future shows how powerful his vision is.


It still would leave him as chunks on the ground, and Yhwach could just finish Rumple off with soul destroying arrows.

 

[MachTwo]

>he changed his fate against Ichibe

He clearly stated he nullified Ichibe powers

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Fate users controls fate, but they are still tied to the plot and cant do shit about it since they cant change it

You cant beat someone with author powers like and PIS, by just controlling fate

Plot is fate or destiny of the verse and If you talking in technical detail, fictional chars with author powers doesn't work in fiction
You know what. What Rumple will starts with in chars? how often he will use his plot manip?

What I meant is that most plot users can make a PIS event and win with that

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Warren

Okay, that does not change anything!

No, this is a contradiction to the own nature of his ability, Yhwach can have no future, if he possesses Acausality Type 2.

"Characters with this type of Acausality do not exist in either the past or the future, only the present..."]

Anyway, Rumple has the combined power of dozens of Dark One's and was resistant to a precog that has advanced thousands of years into the future.

Teleport and other abilities account for it. And it's not like he delayed regenerating, or Yhwach knew it anyway.

 

[Warren_Valion]

@Warren
Almighty is a combination of powers. He uses everyone at once, so he changed his destiny by denying what Ichibe.

The Almighty isn't just Fate Manipulation.

His Power Nullification and Reactive Evolution aren't based on his fate hax or him changing his destiny.

They are based on him knowing that he sees and all that he knows becomes his ally. Nothing to do with manipulating Fate.


Yhwach doesn't do that until after he absorbed the Soul King and began fighting Ichigo.

 

[MachTwo]

What I meant is that most plot users can make a PIS event and win with that

PIS event in the story. An event is fate/destiny/history within the story, something that fate hax can affect too.

Answer my other question.

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Warren

True, sorry for that! Either way, Yhwach can not see Rumple in the future and these skills do not work on him.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Answer my other question.

I dont know if he uses plot manip in character, Im not familiar with the verse. I was just talking about how plot interacts with fate and blah blah

 

[AppleLord]

>was resistant to a precog that has advanced thousands of years into the future.

Basically Almighty. Yhwach had that power thousand of years ago when he first got sealed and didn't unlock it until he fought ichibei but he told Ichibei how he was gonna die before the battle started.

 

[Warren_Valion]

@Warren
Okay, that does not change anything!

No, this is a contradiction to the own nature of his ability, Yhwach can have no future, if he possesses Acausality Type 2.

"Characters with this type of Acausality do not exist in either the past or the future, only the present..."]

Anyway, Rumple has the combined power of dozens of Dark One's and was resistant to a precog that has advanced thousands of years into the future.

Teleport and other abilities account for it. And it's not like he delayed regenerating, or Yhwach knew it anyway.

This is an indexing wiki first and foremost - that should be updated.


Again, that shows the strength of Yhwach's vision.

And Yhwach's Almighty can sees all possible futures, which is greater than seeing thousands of years of a single future anyway. So I am 90% sure that his Precog bypass Rumple's resistance anyway.


Has Rumple ever teleported while being blown up with TK? Or did he regenerate first, and then use one of his powers?

And if Yhwach sees Rumple is regenerating, he can just throw out one of his arrows while he doing it.

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Warren

Nothing changes here!

No, this is a direct contradiction to the nature of the skill.

No, that is range, just as Merlin's range is bigger, but also different!
As I said above, seeing endless possibilities, will not make someone who does not appear in the future, appear magically.
Rumple has the resistent of dozens of Dark One's. Show me Yhwach denying precognition in such a way.

Rumple's scaling is from Zelena (Rumple taught her all her abilities), which was reduced to liquid and regenerated with her magic. So yes, he can use magic with your body crumbled.

 

[MachTwo]

Feats for Dark One's precog?

 

[MostPowerfull]

There we go again with "I can see the infinite futures, so I can see who can not be seen in the future."

 

[MachTwo]

Both Yhwach and Ichibei think that SK has see the future all the way to the event of quincy invasion Why this is so impressive? remember SK has been sealed 1 million years ago and incapable to using his powers. Weaker Yhwach with A can see thousand of years into the future and Yhwach has absorb SK duh.

 

[MostPowerfull]

Congratulations ... He just possessed a feat similar to Merlin, who was unable to see the future of a Dark One. And as I recall, Yhwach predicted less than Thousand Years. But wait ... He can infinitely future, so he can see who can not be seen in the future.

 

[MachTwo]

>was resistant to a precog that has advanced thousands of years into the future.

Hmm how he possessed a feat similar to Merlin?

>He can infinitely future so he can see who can not be seen in the future.

Wut?

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Mach Read again.

Well, I explained what I wanted.

I'll simply stop following this. Bye, guys!

 

[Warren_Valion]

@Warren
Nothing changes here!

No, this is a direct contradiction to the nature of the skill.

No, that is range, just as Merlin's range is bigger, but also different!
As I said above, seeing endless possibilities, will not make someone who does not appear in the future, appear magically.
Rumple has the resistent of dozens of Dark One's. Show me Yhwach denying precognition in such a way.

Rumple's scaling is from Zelena (Rumple taught her all her abilities), which was reduced to liquid and regenerated with her magic. So yes, he can use magic with your body crumbled.

It clarifies the pages, which is important.


And, AFAIK, how much one is able to see with their precog does determine the strength of the precog, which can bypass resistances.


But does he use another power before regenerating, or does he regenerate first? Because Yhwach can just kill him if it was the latter while it former could be more of a problem.

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Warren

It's ok.

Headcanon

He must use magic to regenerate and also maintains consciousness (like Zelena) of what is happening.. Therefore, Rumple skill is usable.

 

[Warren_Valion]

There we go again with "I can see the infinite futures, so I can see who can not be seen in the future."

Rumple can resist being seen in the future with a person who can see only one future, he has never shown to resist being seen by a person who's precog can show the user every future.

 

[MostPowerfull]

Again, that is range. Nothing is going to change!

.. Why this still send me PM! I unfollow this 3 times.

 

[Warren_Valion]

@Warren
It's ok.

Headcanon

It's not, the page should clarify that Rumple doesn't use the pen, but has access to its powers because of Henry's Faith or whatever.

Again, this is an indexing wiki - accuracy on the profiles is what matters.


And it's is not headcanon - I can post a link to a fight where this logic is applied.

Shulk verses Dante - Shulk's precog is greater than the precog than Dante resisted because he can see more.