The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Anyways I don't think the physical manifestation of a tier 0 dying is really that big of a deal considering the tier 0 would obviously be "more" than the body. Not like the physical manifestation needs to have tier 0 durability.

Just to note, you can separate the physical manifestation from actual entity itself. Ultima and I discuss this summarily to Seekers “God” when separating the Magician(God’s physical form) to the Primal Ocean(God’s non-manifest form). This should be fine because C.S. Lewis seems more kin to treating Aslan as a separate being in conjunction to the Emperor.

They’re both part of the unified being, but it’s more so Eastern Orthodox approach rather than Roman Catholic(believing that the Trinity are one and the same, all distinction made is just from one being and that all the metaphysical parts are one being, not separate). Due to that and the approach the authors makes it clear that he does not follow Divine Simplicity thus I believed separating the two is fine enough. Aslan getting High 1-A+ and the Emperor getting 0.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Here’s an interesting theory I made(copy and pasted from my chat with Ultima):

Also, my Narnia Theory I borrowed from someone. It suggest that the Deep Magic is the form of Creation when Aslan sung in into Existence by the Emperor acting on Aslan since those laws were built by him and it can apply to Aslan. This is why the darkness in the stillness before time had a law that is conversed by the Emperor as the “Deeper Magic” being the core foundation of the Deep Magic(Creation) and the Emperor exist and encompasses all that. As the Narnia we see is illusion to the truer Narnia that is “Aslan Country” it has R>F and technically is the true emanation of the Narnia that was built by the Emperor. I think he could classify as 0 as all things just exist because he made it so ie Deeper Magic for Creation and Deep Magic as Creation.

All Creation having onion layers seems like R>F hierarchy which Aslan transcend and is encompassed all by the Deep Magic(High 1-A+) and the Deeper Magic being the one to encompasses even that as tule placed before Creation in the stillness(High 1-A+) and the Emperor exist beyond all that(0).

The Material world or Narnia having layers is 1-A+. Aslan Country and the whole of Creation(Deep Magic) is High 1-A/High 1-A+ and Deeper Magic being High 1-A+ and Emperor being 0 isn’t a bad shout

 

[Ultima_Reality]

They’re both part of the unified being, but it’s more so Eastern Orthodox approach rather than Roman Catholic(believing that the Trinity are one and the same, all distinction made is just from one being and that all the metaphysical parts are one being, not separate). Due to that and the approach the authors makes it clear that he does not follow Divine Simplicity thus I believed separating the two is fine enough. Aslan getting High 1-A+ and the Emperor getting 0.

Narnia is not an Arian cosmology and Aslan is very much the equal of the Emperor. That's all there is to say on that.

Here’s an interesting theory I made(copy and pasted from my chat with Ultima):

Gotta say I'm pretty skeptical of High 1-A+/Tier 0 Narnia based on that reasoning, ngl. Seems like yapping to me.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Narnia is not an Arian cosmology and Aslan is very much the equal of the Emperor. That's all there is to say on that.

I clarified they are one being. Just different faces with the Emperor being clearly more of the holistic larger conception. Just how Aslan addresses the Emperor implies it and he, himself, follows the law of the Emperor.

Gotta say I'm pretty skeptical of High 1-A+/Tier 0 Narnia based on that reasoning, ngl. Seems like yapping to me.

We’ll just have to see don’t we.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Ultima while on this topic of discussion. Can you confirm that Yog isn’t 0? Personally, I see it as a being the entire Cosmology, but not as something that supersede it or exist separately of it. Unless, you have something to suggest otherwise about it being “oneness” which I find deplorable and quite weak of a reason to consider for Boundless.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Ultima while on this topic of discussion. Can you confirm that Yog isn’t 0? Personally, I see it as a being the entire Cosmology, but not as something that supersede it or exist separately of it. Unless, you have something to suggest otherwise about it being “oneness” which I find deplorable and quite weak of a reason to consider for Boundless.

It was an All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self—not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence’s whole unbounded sweep—the last, utter sweep which has no confines and which outreaches fancy and mathematics alike. It was perhaps that which certain secret cults of earth have whispered of as YOG-SOTHOTH, and which has been a deity under other names; that which the crustaceans of Yuggoth worship as the Beyond-One, and which the vaporous brains of the spiral nebulae know by an untranslatable Sign—yet in a flash the Carter-facet realised how slight and fractional all these conceptions are.

"weak"

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

"weak"

I still find that as a weak evidence. Given what was said, it seems Yog is the embodiment of everything in the Cosmology as oppose to Monadic figure emanating everything as the original essence. It does not seem beyond anything more than just the Cosmology itself.

If people fancy the “Supreme Archetype” approach after more careful consideration it seems to talk more about within the confines of the Ultimate Void, which for some reasons there’s no correlation to Yog embodying that other than the weird notion Az and Yog are part of the same “Archetype” which also is just an “Archetype” that permeate and exist as the sum total of the Cosmology. Nothing beyond that or that Yog is completely inseparable of all Existence.

I’ll read more into it to reconfirm my suspicions. After all, it’s been a while.

 

[Trigger]

551, and 1302 are main ones, 1385-1387 for some context

Thanks, I'll go check em out

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Thanks, I'll go check em out

What chapter are these for? A manga

 

[Trigger]

What chapter are these for? A manga

Nah, a web novels series.
Shadow Slave.

 

[Karllkraft]

How will star wars legends be affected by this

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

How will star wars legends be affected by this

i heard the force could get to outer

 

[Robo432343]

How will ultima’s new thread affect lebrons legacy

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

How will ultima’s new thread affect lebrons legacy

Stay on topic.

 

[Iiliminal]

the force is tier 0

 

[Robo432343]

Accelerator will become tier 0

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

If I were to separate the main Marvel contunity with J.M. DeMatteis then some of the things can’t be used for the main Marvel Cosmology, so I believe it wouldn’t be as big since DeMatteis is a large chunk of the Cosmology.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Stay on topic.

Lebron's legacy is on topic

the force is tier 0

I have heard tier 0 Force before, I think someone from PSW was arguing for it

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Accelerator will become tier 0

how?

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

how?

nah he is joking the guy is a human

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Lebron's legacy is on topic

I have heard tier 0 Force before, I think someone from PSW was arguing for it

From what I’ve heard, it’s basically The Root but unlike The Root it outright states it is greater than any descriptions one attempts to give it

 

[Blackchocolate77]

Either not changing or downgrade because they don't fit the new Reality-Fiction standards, most notably lower realities not effecting higher ones.

Normally in magi lower realities it could not have an effect to the higher ones. But some of them are able to do this because there is a higher god ordained by them. Wouldn't this get them a new Reality-Fiction

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Normally in magi lower realities it could not have an effect to the higher ones. But some of them are able to do this because there is a higher god ordained by them. Wouldn't this get them a 1-A

 

[Nierre]

common magi w

 

[Trigger]

If what your saying is true, the yes

 

[Hirotoswnn1x]

Tensura LN 1-A ? Veldanava He proved to be oneness and all was one, but he died this scan made him transcend dimensions trancescede space-time continuum?

He is a singular existence, the primordial will that exist as and separate from everything else, his consciousness holds all things, the one that is all and the all that is one yet alone in the world, he is devoid of everything and nothing, for those are just pure parts of himself

 

[Woomica]

Tensura LN 1-A ? Veldanava He proved to be oneness and all was one, but he died this scan made him transcend dimensions trancescede space-time continuum?

I dont understand what you said,but if you said he transcended a space time continuum
Then he should be low 1-C then no?

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Apparently some kamen riders have BDE type 2, wouldn’t that give them outer scaling

 

[Robo432343]

wait

Lucifer Morningstar (DC Comics)

Lucifer Morningstar is a fallen rebel archangel who was cast out of Heaven and onto Earth as punishment for leading the revolt of the angels. He's the twin brother of Michael Demiurgos and the uncle of Elaine Belloc. Before the DC Verse was created, in the void outside all creations that is the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

1-A again?
he has bde 2

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

wait

Lucifer Morningstar (DC Comics)

Lucifer Morningstar is a fallen rebel archangel who was cast out of Heaven and onto Earth as punishment for leading the revolt of the angels. He's the twin brother of Michael Demiurgos and the uncle of Elaine Belloc. Before the DC Verse was created, in the void outside all creations that is the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

1-A again?
he has bde 2

He’s 1-A, minimum.

 

[Bobsican]

wait

Lucifer Morningstar (DC Comics)

Lucifer Morningstar is a fallen rebel archangel who was cast out of Heaven and onto Earth as punishment for leading the revolt of the angels. He's the twin brother of Michael Demiurgos and the uncle of Elaine Belloc. Before the DC Verse was created, in the void outside all creations that is the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

1-A again?
he has bde 2

And with no justification at that, reminder that Ultima is going to be far more strict with that sort of stuff.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

And with no justification at that, reminder that Ultima is going to be far more strict with that sort of stuff.

Ultima also agrees Lucifer scales above the City of Stars which would be 1-A.

 

[Robo432343]

why would the city of stars be 1-A?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

why would the city of stars be 1-A?

The realm is said to be an actuality above reality. Plus, Ultima isn’t against Lucifer having BDE, he just wants clear justification on it. I’m pretty sure everyone agrees that Lucifer not being 1-A is a bit weird.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

The realm is said to be an actuality above reality.

More specifically for being described as "above the real" and similar.

Though, can you explain Lucifer's relation to dimensionality, also? The comics are a big vague on that mark, and the fact he's very much depicted as existing just fine in regular reality throws me off.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Though, can you explain Lucifer's relation to dimensionality, also? The comics are a big vague on that mark, and the fact he's very much depicted as existing just fine in regular reality throws me off.

Me and Tyler from the Imaginary Axis just have the view that Lucifer being above dimensionality is rather a supplementary part of the lore rather than a direct statement. I mean he does predate dimensions anyways and would logically be beyond anything that he creates within the whole of Creation.

There’s no direct citation, we pretty much assume so and there’s really no reason not to. Especially if you regard that time and space are extension of the will and he embodies infinite will and can craft infinity with any material given.

 

[Robo432343]

More specifically for being described as "above the real" and similar.

Isn't that just Low 1-C without further context?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

More specifically for being described as "above the real" and similar.

Also, wouldn’t any other Far Realms scale to it? I know it’s not confirmed, but Heaven should be superior or at the very minimum scale to it.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

The realm is said to be an actuality above reality. Plus, Ultima isn’t against Lucifer having BDE, he just wants clear justification on it. I’m pretty sure everyone agrees that Lucifer not being 1-A is a bit weird.

A lot of BDE type 2 lack reasonings on there profiles

 

[Everything12]

Normally in magi lower realities it could not have an effect to the higher ones. But some of them are able to do this because there is a higher god ordained by them. Wouldn't this get them a new Reality-Fiction

Except for the part where it was Ugo who built and initially used the thing, not Sinbad. So some doesn't work, when Ugo wasn't part of those some.