The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

[GrathOfLux]

If no one else objects, I will close it in a few.

The Dread Tiering System Revisions is still presently open, and this thread has been used for some time to discuss the string of connected threads to this matter. Provided the above innuendo-laden discussion ceases, I think it would be abrupt to close this thread now. People may still have general discussion on the thread to share.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

The Dread Tiering System Revisions is still presently open, and this thread has been used for some time to discuss the string of connected threads to this matter. Provided the above innuendo-laden discussion ceases, I think it would be abrupt to close this thread now. People may still have general discussion on the thread to share.

I think that a new thread should be open with regulations that all questions or concern remain on topic. After all, “On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System” was a closed thread with this place being a leeway time to randomly say stuff until the next thread on the revision thread open. I just think a fresh start is better, more or less.

 

[GrathOfLux]

I think that a new thread should be open with regulations that all questions or concern remain on topic. After all, “On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System” was a closed thread with this place being a leeway time to randomly say stuff until the next thread on the revision thread open. I just think a fresh start is better, more or less.

I don't agree, frankly. It seems best that, if the tiering systems revisions are going to have a general discussion platform at all, that it may as well all be kept in the same place.

Evidently, the order of this thread has not been well-maintained, especially in the past page or so. We don't have to make a new thread for that. We can just address that going forward.

 

[Trigger]

It's only weird with socks off

Stop

So I'm gonna have to ask for this joke to cease now. We have reported people for mildly sexual innuendos before. You've had your fun, time to let it go.

Thank you.

I don't agree, frankly. It seems best that, if the tiering systems revisions are going to have a general discussion platform at all, that it may as well all be kept in the same place.

Evidently, the order of this thread has not been well-maintained, especially in the past page or so. We don't have to make a new thread for that. We can just address that going forward.

Agreed.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

We cant derail threads anymore?!??!!? 1984

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

We cant derail threads anymore?!??!!? 1984

this was a thread

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Stop

I have

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Just to note. You don’t have to just respond to every point especially if it’s just a warning that you can nod to without text. Anything after this should just refer to the revisions threads.

 

[The_forgetten]

Sadece şunu belirtmek isterim. Özellikle metin olmadan başınızı sallayabileceğiniz bir uyarıysa, her noktaya yanıt vermek zorunda değilsiniz. Bundan sonraki her şey sadece revizyon konularına atıfta bulunmalıdır.

Why are u so serious

 

[Trigger]

Just to note. You don’t have to just respond to every point especially if it’s just a warning that you can nod to without text. Anything after this should just refer to the revisions threads.

Now, moving on to more serious matters.
I hope the revisions will be done by next week honestly.
But, I do have a question, why do we not include alot of western novels. I don't mean like the hard copy ones, but like western web novels. We incorporate many from all over the place, but the western(English, Spanish, German, etc) seem to be sparse? Like take for example Shadow Slave, arguably far more popular than some series I see on this wiki. I just wanted to ask why? Is it because the westerns are more likely to have prior knowledge of this wiki? Or maybe no one has ever brought them up?

 

[Tanin_iver]

I wonder where Digimon will end up after the Tiering System revisions. Heard its going through a massive overhaul.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

I wonder where Digimon will end up after the Tiering System revisions. Heard its going through a massive overhaul.

either the same or outer

 

[Trigger]

I have

Cool bro.
Anyway no hard feelings right, bruh? We cool right?

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Now, moving on to more serious matters.
I hope the revisions will be done by next week honestly.
But, I do have a question, why do we not include alot of western novels. I don't mean like the hard copy ones, but like western web novels. We incorporate many from all over the place, but the western(English, Spanish, German, etc) seem to be sparse? Like take for example Shadow Slave, arguably far more popular than some series I see on this wiki. I just wanted to ask why? Is it because the westerns are more likely to have prior knowledge of this wiki? Or maybe no one has ever brought them up?

Shadow Slave is peak and in context of the revisions it'd likely be low 1-A or 1-A

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Cool bro.
Anyway no hard feelings right, bruh? We cool right?

Nah I hate you now (jk if that wasn’t obv, everything’s cool)

 

[Trigger]

Nah I hate you now (jk if that wasn’t obv, everything’s cool)

Lol, I got it, thanks!

 

[Trigger]

Shadow Slave is peak and in context of the revisions it'd likely be low 1-A or 1-A

Really? How so?

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Really? How so?

Void creatures and Gods would be low 1-A/1-A for being infinite and eternal (superior) compared to the concepts of space and time before the gods created and bounded everything to said laws/concepts and with the created concepts being considered imperfect compared to the gods perfect nature.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Void creatures and Gods would be low 1-A/1-A for being infinite and eternal (superior) compared to the concepts of space and time before the gods created and bounded everything to said laws/concepts and with the created concepts being considered imperfect compared to the gods perfect nature.

So they indiscriminately bounded everything to these concepts and also had to create a universal law of imperfection in order to properly bound themselves and the void due to their perfect nature. So the gods after everything is bounded wouldn't be 1-A but their state that was before and superior to concepts of space and time.

Not a contradiction either since I asked Ultima if higher beings could bind other higher beings on the same level to space and time and he said yes.

 

[Trigger]

So they indiscriminately bounded everything to these concepts and also had to create a universal law of imperfection in order to properly bound themselves and the void due to their perfect nature. So the gods after everything is bounded wouldn't be 1-A but their state that was before and superior to concepts of space and time.

Not a contradiction either since I asked Ultima if higher beings could bind other higher beings on the same level to space and time and he said yes.

What chapter are these stated?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Seeing Ultima have a Serial Experiment Lain PFP makes me genuinely curious if he has plans to upgrade the series or not, because based on what I saw from another versus site, the series has implications to be way higher than where we currently tier them.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I’m going to make a CRT to get Narnia to 0. However, I’m not sure how people will react to some of my reasonings, but I believe I could get it to that tier.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

I’m going to make a CRT to get Narnia to 0. However, I’m not sure how people will react to some of my reasonings, but I believe I could get it to that tier.

Wouldn’t aslan’s death contradict him being there? Or r u going to seperate aslan from the emperor again

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Wouldn’t aslan’s death contradict him being there? Or r u going to seperate aslan from the emperor again

It’s going to be a mix though Aslan death isn’t something that deters from him getting 0. The Emperor to me is flat-out 0.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

What chapter are these stated?

551, and 1302 are main ones, 1385-1387 for some context

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I’m going to make a CRT to get Narnia to 0. However, I’m not sure how people will react to some of my reasonings, but I believe I could get it to that tier.

As someone who is a fan of Narnia, I am very curious as to your reasonings. C.S Lewis’ views on Omnipotence seems to be directly in line with Logical Omnipotence, so if he actually implies Aslan or Emperor is Omnipotent in his stories, it should significantly help your case.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

It’s going to be a mix though Aslan death isn’t something that deters from him getting 0. The Emperor to me is flat-out 0.

Oh the emperor is most likely tier 0, I was just curious how hed get there with Aslan being a part of the trinity but still dying

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Oh the emperor is most likely tier 0, I was just curious how hed get there with Aslan being a part of the trinity but still dying

Jesus died

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Jesus died

Ye he died for our sins. Too bad you made him regret that you naughty boy. I know what you did

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Jesus died

This is getting close to this rule, so please avoid such topic:

Discussions regarding hypothetical tier placements of figures from current religions are also not allowed, as the community wishes to avoid heated arguments. Avoid VS debating with deities featured in modern religions unless it is a comics, games, tv, etc version of that deity. It is both controversial and impractical to bring up the contents of religious scriptures.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

This is getting close to this rule, so please avoid such topic:

I was just saying this because Aslan is meant to be lion Jesus

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I was just saying this because Aslan is meant to be lion Jesus

I know, dw but still, better be careful

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Anyways I don't think the physical manifestation of a tier 0 dying is really that big of a deal considering the tier 0 would obviously be "more" than the body. Not like the physical manifestation needs to have tier 0 durability.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Anyways I don't think the physical manifestation of a tier 0 dying is really that big of a deal considering the tier 0 would obviously be "more" than the body. Not like the physical manifestation needs to have tier 0 durability.

Just to note, you can separate the physical manifestation from actual entity itself. Ultima and I discuss this summarily to Seekers “God” when separating the Magician(God’s physical form) to the Primal Ocean(God’s non-manifest form). This should be fine because C.S. Lewis seems more kin to treating Aslan as a separate being in conjunction to the Emperor.

They’re both part of the unified being, but it’s more so Eastern Orthodox approach rather than Roman Catholic(believing that the Trinity are one and the same, all distinction made is just from one being and that all the metaphysical parts are one being, not separate). Due to that and the approach the authors makes it clear that he does not follow Divine Simplicity thus I believed separating the two is fine enough. Aslan getting High 1-A+ and the Emperor getting 0.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Here’s an interesting theory I made(copy and pasted from my chat with Ultima):

Also, my Narnia Theory I borrowed from someone. It suggest that the Deep Magic is the form of Creation when Aslan sung in into Existence by the Emperor acting on Aslan since those laws were built by him and it can apply to Aslan. This is why the darkness in the stillness before time had a law that is conversed by the Emperor as the “Deeper Magic” being the core foundation of the Deep Magic(Creation) and the Emperor exist and encompasses all that. As the Narnia we see is illusion to the truer Narnia that is “Aslan Country” it has R>F and technically is the true emanation of the Narnia that was built by the Emperor. I think he could classify as 0 as all things just exist because he made it so ie Deeper Magic for Creation and Deep Magic as Creation.

All Creation having onion layers seems like R>F hierarchy which Aslan transcend and is encompassed all by the Deep Magic(High 1-A+) and the Deeper Magic being the one to encompasses even that as tule placed before Creation in the stillness(High 1-A+) and the Emperor exist beyond all that(0).

The Material world or Narnia having layers is 1-A+. Aslan Country and the whole of Creation(Deep Magic) is High 1-A/High 1-A+ and Deeper Magic being High 1-A+ and Emperor being 0 isn’t a bad shout

 

[Ultima_Reality]

They’re both part of the unified being, but it’s more so Eastern Orthodox approach rather than Roman Catholic(believing that the Trinity are one and the same, all distinction made is just from one being and that all the metaphysical parts are one being, not separate). Due to that and the approach the authors makes it clear that he does not follow Divine Simplicity thus I believed separating the two is fine enough. Aslan getting High 1-A+ and the Emperor getting 0.

Narnia is not an Arian cosmology and Aslan is very much the equal of the Emperor. That's all there is to say on that.

Here’s an interesting theory I made(copy and pasted from my chat with Ultima):

Gotta say I'm pretty skeptical of High 1-A+/Tier 0 Narnia based on that reasoning, ngl. Seems like yapping to me.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Narnia is not an Arian cosmology and Aslan is very much the equal of the Emperor. That's all there is to say on that.

I clarified they are one being. Just different faces with the Emperor being clearly more of the holistic larger conception. Just how Aslan addresses the Emperor implies it and he, himself, follows the law of the Emperor.

Gotta say I'm pretty skeptical of High 1-A+/Tier 0 Narnia based on that reasoning, ngl. Seems like yapping to me.

We’ll just have to see don’t we.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Ultima while on this topic of discussion. Can you confirm that Yog isn’t 0? Personally, I see it as a being the entire Cosmology, but not as something that supersede it or exist separately of it. Unless, you have something to suggest otherwise about it being “oneness” which I find deplorable and quite weak of a reason to consider for Boundless.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Ultima while on this topic of discussion. Can you confirm that Yog isn’t 0? Personally, I see it as a being the entire Cosmology, but not as something that supersede it or exist separately of it. Unless, you have something to suggest otherwise about it being “oneness” which I find deplorable and quite weak of a reason to consider for Boundless.

It was an All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self—not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence’s whole unbounded sweep—the last, utter sweep which has no confines and which outreaches fancy and mathematics alike. It was perhaps that which certain secret cults of earth have whispered of as YOG-SOTHOTH, and which has been a deity under other names; that which the crustaceans of Yuggoth worship as the Beyond-One, and which the vaporous brains of the spiral nebulae know by an untranslatable Sign—yet in a flash the Carter-facet realised how slight and fractional all these conceptions are.

"weak"

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

"weak"

I still find that as a weak evidence. Given what was said, it seems Yog is the embodiment of everything in the Cosmology as oppose to Monadic figure emanating everything as the original essence. It does not seem beyond anything more than just the Cosmology itself.

If people fancy the “Supreme Archetype” approach after more careful consideration it seems to talk more about within the confines of the Ultimate Void, which for some reasons there’s no correlation to Yog embodying that other than the weird notion Az and Yog are part of the same “Archetype” which also is just an “Archetype” that permeate and exist as the sum total of the Cosmology. Nothing beyond that or that Yog is completely inseparable of all Existence.

I’ll read more into it to reconfirm my suspicions. After all, it’s been a while.