• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

Status
Not open for further replies.
BadSystems said:
Mods, crush his skull
Click to expand...
The mods are on my side motherfcker
sukuna-stare.gif
 
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
Stop pedaling debunked stuff.
Click to expand...
How the hell can it be debunked? Not only you have to prove that dozens of guys obsessed with PL, aren't...Obsessed with PL, but you also have to believe their words (because having a verse that has 50% of the characters have some kind of absurd smurf hax wasn't wroten for vsbw). I mean, cmon, a decent chunk are "quirky heckin chungus characters. (self insert)..That "coincidently" solos H.P lovecraft books". Do you think that SCP being treathed as a joke in the vs community isn't a coincidence?
 
Livinmeme said:
How the hell can it be debunked? Not only you have to prove that dozens of guys obsessed with PL, aren't...Obsessed with PL, but you also have to believe their words (because having a verse that has 50% of the characters have some kind of absurd smurf hax wasn't wroten for vsbw). I mean, cmon, a decent chunk are "quirky heckin chungus characters. (self insert)..That "coincidently" solos H.P lovecraft books". Do you think that SCP being treathed as a joke in the vs community isn't a coincidence?
Click to expand...
@Sir_Ovens @Saikou_The_Lewd_King
 
Livinmeme said:
Not a powercalling verse. The absurd ammount of R>F, and mathematics have nothing to do
Click to expand...
damn, so like was CS lewis and lovecraft powerscalers, also part of scp is cosmic horror beyond human comprehension (ie maths), and narratives are common in fiction ie marvel, so mute point. The only reason people complain is because scp beats most of their favourite verses and need a scapegoat other than just say they're salty
 
Lord_Farquaad69420 said:
damn, so like was CS lewis and lovecraft powerscalers, also part of scp is cosmic horror beyond human comprehension (ie maths), and narratives are common in fiction ie marvel, so mute point. The only reason people complain is because scp beats most of their favourite verses and need a scapegoat other than just say they're salty
Click to expand...
One was made with a purpose, a story, the other was made for "OMG CAN HE BEAT GOKU SJ20000?". So it just devolves into power scalling wankery, not only this is validated by the terrible writting, but also because some monster that appeared from some uknown place is "coincidentally" stronger than the last bad guy, which is also absurdly strong. I mean, you should have expected when the lizard was just shitty george joestar kars, and people tried to uphim
 
Livinmeme said:
One was made with a purpose, a story, the other was made for "OMG CAN HE BEAT GOKU SJ20000?". So it just devolves into power scalling wankery, not only this is validated by the terrible writting, but also because some monster that appeared from some uknown place is "coincidentally" stronger than the last bad guy, which is also absurdly strong. I mean, you should have expected when the lizard was just shitty george joestar kars, and people tried to uphim
Click to expand...
So your only evidence is that the lizard beats goku.....

Theres over 7000 scp's and most of them aren't goku soloing, also with 7000 scp's theres going to be good and bad stories, if you honestly think if something is strong then its just for powerscaling, you need to go touch grass man
 
Livinmeme said:
How the hell can it be debunked? Not only you have to prove that dozens of guys obsessed with PL, aren't...Obsessed with PL, but you also have to believe their words (because having a verse that has 50% of the characters have some kind of absurd smurf hax wasn't wroten for vsbw). I mean, cmon, a decent chunk are "quirky heckin chungus characters. (self insert)..That "coincidently" solos H.P lovecraft books". Do you think that SCP being treathed as a joke in the vs community isn't a coincidence?
Click to expand...
If you look hard enough for a skinwalker in a crowd of people, you will always find it.

SCP as a verse has always been about cool stories and concepts. If said cool concepts end up having to incorporate philosophy or science that end up at 1-A, they're gonna get incorporated regardless. The ratio of biggaversal pseudo-science gibberish to Mr. Fish articles are 1:10. The biggaversal article just tend to be more interesting to read cause they're huge lore chunks with cool formats. And for the purposes of battleboarding, we tend to gravitate towards that.

Mind you, 99% of the reason why we have so many tier 1s and 0s is because of cross scaling. Most of the articles written (if you even bother to read the source material) have absolutely nothing to do with tiers. In fact, all of Kaktusverse has no feats beyond 8-A. Everyone just scales to the Noosphere which happens to be a High 1-A construct from various other sources.

Like a good example are the bees. Outside of an article wherein they kill 3125, they're just bees that suck the religion out of you. It's a cool concept. It was never written to be tier-bait. And even in the article where they kill 3125, it isn't written to make the bees biggaversal on purpose, it was clearly written with the twist ending in mind. Again, cool concept and execution (heh).

So yeah. You can complain about SCP being "made for tiers" but I'm pretty sure the authors hate us and will keep doing their thing regardless of tiers.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
SCP as a verse has always been about cool stories and concepts. If said cool concepts end up having to incorporate philosophy or science that end up at 1-A, they're gonna get incorporated regardless. The ratio of biggaversal pseudo-science gibberish to Mr. Fish articles are 1:10. The biggaversal article just tend to be more interesting to read cause they're huge lore chunks with cool formats. And for the purposes of battleboarding, we tend to gravitate towards that.

Mind you, 99% of the reason why we have so many tier 1s and 0s is because of cross scaling. Most of the articles written (if you even bother to read the source material) have absolutely nothing to do with tiers. In fact, all of Kaktusverse has no feats beyond 8-A. Everyone just scales to the Noosphere which happens to be a High 1-A construct from various other sources.

Like a good example are the bees. Outside of an article wherein they kill 3125, they're just bees that suck the religion out of you. It's a cool concept. It was never written to be tier-bait. And even in the article where they kill 3125, it isn't written to make the bees biggaversal on purpose, it was clearly written with the twist ending in mind. Again, cool concept and execution (heh).

So yeah. You can complain about SCP being "made for tiers" but I'm pretty sure the authors hate us and will keep doing their thing regardless of tiers.
Click to expand...
You seem to forget that a good chunk of histories are
A. Cool concepts with bad execution
B. MY PL IS SO HIGH DOOOOD
C. Cool concepts with decent execution
What was once some story based on doctor who, became gimmicks where half of the text is [redacted]. Do you renember the whole "satelite who isn't the author self insert wink, that looks homestuck...". Yes in the scary website page
Doesn't help how a good chunk of SCP become tier 1-A by LITERAL MULTIVERSE WANKERY
 
Livinmeme said:
You seem to forget that a good chunk of histories are
A. Cool concepts with bad execution
B. MY PL IS SO HIGH DOOOOD
C. Cool concepts with decent execution
What was once some story based on doctor who, became gimmicks where half of the text is [redacted]. Do you renember the whole "satelite who isn't the author self insert wink, that looks homestuck...". Yes in the scary website page
Doesn't help how a good chunk of SCP become tier 1-A by LITERAL MULTIVERSE WANKERY
Click to expand...
So your only rebuttals is “it’s strong therefore it’s bad”
 
Livinmeme said:
You seem to forget that a good chunk of histories are
A. Cool concepts with bad execution
B. MY PL IS SO HIGH DOOOOD
C. Cool concepts with decent execution
What was once some story based on doctor who, became gimmicks where half of the text is [redacted]. Do you renember the whole "satelite who isn't the author self insert wink, that looks homestuck...". Yes in the scary website page
Doesn't help how a good chunk of SCP become tier 1-A by LITERAL MULTIVERSE WANKERY
Click to expand...
Ok and? None of that has to do with tiers. A bad story is a bad story. Marvel and DC has a ton of those. Doesn't mean they were made for tiers specifically. Also SCP has moved past being purely horror. Here Were Dragons is a great example of a good story that isn't about horror.

Also this multiverse wankery nonsense is like, childish? You know why we have pages like 3125 or 2747? Because they're repeatedly used in stories and have an impact on the overall cosmology of the verse.

You also seem to not understand that tiering is purely something we do on our end. We interpret the stories being told and tier them according to our standards in the way we deem fit. SCP writers themselves have no say in how we choose to represent them here. If you want to direct your hate towards something more productive, direct it towards Saikou and me. We made the verse what it is today. We spent years trying to piece together a coherent cosmology and got here through our own efforts and the efforts of the SCP Revision Team.

You want SCP to stop being tier 1? Tell us why it shouldn't be in a CRT. Oh but then you'd actually have to read years of SCP content, wouldn't you? You don't put in the effort, and you tell us we're shit. We've heard it all a dozen times over.
 
Last edited:
People are allowed to not like SCP and think it should be removed, y'all know that right? 🗿

I get that this topic's been discussed extensively and it's probably tiring hearing the same sentiments ad infinitum, but that doesn't mean people aren't allowed to hold that sentiment. Personally, I don't care. I couldn't even begin to tell you what the hell an SCP is. But this is kinda ridiculous, especially in earlier pages here talking about this.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
People are allowed to not like SCP and think it should be removed, y'all know that right? 🗿

I get that this topic's been discussed extensively and it's probably tiring hearing the same sentiments ad infinitum, but that doesn't mean people aren't allowed to hold that sentiment. Personally, I don't care. I couldn't even begin to tell you what the hell an SCP is. But this is kinda ridiculous, especially in earlier pages here talking about this.
Click to expand...

I'm entitled to my opinion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
I like how this is a CRT that's going to kill Tier 0 SCP and going to make it harder for it to stick to High 1-A. Yet people still find a way to complain about it being OP or whatever.

I think it's also important to keep in mind that powerscaling is a lot bigger than it used to be. It's not THAT abnormal anymore that a relatively more obscure verse can get some overwhelming attention from Vs Debators in that manner, and certainly isn't a sign that the verse as a whole is Vs Debater bait. But even with that, most of what's used for the current tiers is from well-established authors whose work is by and large completely unrelated to tieritis. It being strong is mostly due to it being a very large verse with a focus on weird esoteric worldbuilding. Not because of some evil Vs Debator conspiracy.

CloverDragon03 said:
People are allowed to not like SCP and think it should be removed, y'all know that right? 🗿

I get that this topic's been discussed extensively and it's probably tiring hearing the same sentiments ad infinitum, but that doesn't mean people aren't allowed to hold that sentiment. Personally, I don't care. I couldn't even begin to tell you what the hell an SCP is. But this is kinda ridiculous, especially in earlier pages here talking about this.
Click to expand...

Maybe if people weren't obssessed with talking shit about us behind our backs and trying to get the verse deleted every second we'd be less pissed. But I guess that won't happen any time soon so we'll stay pissed.
 
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:

I'm entitled to my opinion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...
Literally not relevant, this isn't some big debate, it's just a matter of personal sentiment. We know by now that the verse ain't getting deleted with the number of rejected threads on the matter. You don't need to go opinion police mode on anyone that doesn't like SCP
Saikou_The_Lewd_King said:
Maybe if people weren't obssessed with talking shit about us behind our backs and trying to get the verse deleted every second we'd be less pissed. But I guess that won't happen any time soon so we'll stay pissed.
Click to expand...
Thought I'd acknowledged that though...
I get that this topic's been discussed extensively and it's probably tiring hearing the same sentiments ad infinitum
Click to expand...
Like I said, I bet it's super tiring. I wouldn't know. But this kneejerk reaction's a bit much. Same goes for the other side too - those that have an irrational kneejerk reaction at the mere mention of SCP (or sometimes, not even needing it to be mentioned, they just still find a way to bring it up)
 
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
SCP has several layers of meta-qualitative superiorities, making them Tier 0 under the old system, but they don't have any of the esoteric philosophical language for High 1-A+ or 0.
Click to expand...
High 1-A+ doesn't need esoteric philosophical language.It just needs mentions of omnipotence or "all possible worlds" operating at that scale.
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
This mocking is baseless. A Monad or a collection of all possibilities doesn't fit with SCP's themes, and the authors reputable enough to do one regardless aren't interested.
Click to expand...

Chaoskampf and Creation - SCP Foundation

The SCP Foundation's 'top-secret' archives, declassified for your enjoyment.
scp-wiki.wikidot.com scp-wiki.wikidot.com
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
I have no idea why SCP would have that.
Click to expand...
Do you really think that sort of thing would be that out of line for IS?

Also, the simple existence of the Kaktusverse Paragons is something I would not have expected until they were made. I didn't expect 682 or 2747 to get even more abstract representations that would have them scale near the top of the cosmology, but then they came along.
 
Oh, also, this tale just got dropped, and is currently sitting at +9. It brings up logically possible/impossible worlds, describing them as aspects of the narrative stack, uses Russel's Paradox to dismiss the idea of hyper-narratives, and declares a Supreme Author as the prime mover of the chain of author-narratives. It's simply absurd to claim that SCP can't have the "esoteric philosophical language" needed for this new tiering system. Whether stuff like this actually ends up scaling to someone is just a matter of chance.
 
Agnaa said:
Oh, also, this tale just got dropped, and is currently sitting at +9. It brings up logically possible/impossible worlds, describing them as aspects of the narrative stack, uses Russel's Paradox to dismiss the idea of hyper-narratives, and declares a Supreme Author as the prime mover of the chain of author-narratives.
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

  • Locked
VS Battles Is Nonsense / Delete My Account
Replies
6
Views
3K
Dragonite007
Dragonite007
demonwarrior2266
Application of Ultima's CRT
Replies
4
Views
2K
Hypertornado099
Hypertornado099
  • Locked
What would debunk the basis of the VSBW tiering system
Replies
6
Views
2K
Urshani
Boy.Line
Qualification issues.
Replies
7
Views
645
TheOrangeGuy09
TheOrangeGuy09
Ultima_Reality
  • Locked
On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System
12 13 14
Replies
530
Views
178K
Ultima_Reality
Ultima_Reality
Back
Top