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The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

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I have a genuine question. How do we assume that possibilities like 'Every possible world' (like from Leibniz's possible worlds) includes any possible level of High 1-A possibilities within it as High 1-A+ implicates ?

I assumed it was just because the existence of 'any possible level of High 1-A' doesn't really contain a true contradiction , so it would be included, but I'm not 100% certain of that. Especially when it seems pretty NLF to assume that 'possible worlds' incorporate every level of High 1-A just automatically.
 
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
I have a genuine question. How do we assume that possibilities like 'Every possible world' (like from Leibniz's possible worlds) includes any possible level of High 1-A possibilities within it as High 1-A+ implicates ?

I assumed it was just because the existence of 'any possible level of High 1-A' doesn't really contain a true contradiction , so it would be included, but I'm not 100% certain of that. Especially when it seems pretty NLF to assume that 'possible worlds' incorporate every level of High 1-A just automatically.
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Depends on what "possible world" means in that case, since there's multiple types of possibility, of course. If you think metaphysical possibility is a thing, for instance, then "All metaphysically possible worlds" wouldn't include all the tiers, since that type of possibility doesn't concern itself only with whether a contradiction exists at all, but also with the actual nature of the world beyond that. So I imagine it'd go up to Low 1-A at most, as a default.

If it's literally just "Literally any logically valid contingent state-of-affairs corresponds to a different reality," though, then, yeah, there's no reason that'd not include all the tiers in the system before 0. It's not really NLF if you explain it right (Which I imagine most verses don't, though). Just a mention of "possible worlds" obviously wouldn't suffice, either way.
 
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Ultima_Reality said:
Depends on what "possible world" means in that case, since there's multiple types of possibility, of course. If you think metaphysical possibility is a thing, for instance, then "All metaphysically possible worlds" wouldn't include all the tiers, since that type of possibility doesn't concern itself only with whether a contradiction exists at all, but also with the actual nature of the world beyond that. So I imagine it'd go up to Low 1-A at most, as a default.

If it's literally just "Literally any logically valid contingent state-of-affairs corresponds to a different reality," though, then, yeah, there's no reason that'd not include all the tiers in the system before 0. It's not really NLF if you explain it right (Which I imagine most verses don't, though). Just a mention of "possible worlds" obviously wouldn't suffice, either way.
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What of impossible worlds?
 
Me: entering a competition that consists of saying random words

my rival: Yes, and our current system essentially encourages a form of Suggs-style social Darwinian divisive psychopathically power-mad frantic competition to constantly gain greater levels of comparative supremacy in order to grind everyone else under a single bootheel, rather than encouraging a perspective of true oneness (and therefore equality) for everyone at the end, so I technically find what we are currently doing highly immoral as well.

me: I give up 😥
 
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Wesker018 said:
Me: entering a competition that consists of saying random words

my rival: Yes, and our current system essentially encourages a form of Suggs-style social Darwinian divisive psychopathically power-mad frantic competition to constantly gain greater levels of comparative supremacy in order to grind everyone else under a single bootheel, rather than encouraging a perspective of true oneness (and therefore equality) for everyone at the end, so I technically find what we are currently doing highly immoral as well.

me: I give up 😥
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Basically, what OC writers do most of the times
 
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the yap in question
 
I really don't care for or want to understand tier 0 anymore tbh. I hope it gets resolved soon enough so we can move on to the other parts.
 
Honestly, I kept up with it and found it fun. Especially, since everyone was weary of Ultima proposal but he keeps on doing his thing and the others are worrying less and less.

Eventually, Ultima would win this by what I’ve seen so far. He’s that good.
 
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
@Ultima_Reality What's x/empty set, x^empty set, and log(empty set)x?
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That kinda just doesn't work cause unless you are referring to the cardinality of the empty set (which is zero and thereby two of those get thrown out the window instantly), functions (unless specified to work with sets, and given you are using the basic operators there, don't and can't be) just don't work.

It's like trying to divide an integer by an array (exactly like that actually), you are either gonna get an error message or a wrong output.
 
It seems weirdly off-topic to be asking Ultima these questions in the first place, but yeah, 2/3 of those questions don't have any meaning to them. There is no division in Set Theory and log(empty set)x is just asking "To what power does the empty set need to be raised to get X" when the empty set isn't a number to begin with (and no 0 isn't the empty set, it's the cardinality of the empty set).
 
So set theory is has gone that far from their throne?

The whole point of the set of all sets is that technically it is the biggest number.
Are we trying to trade math the bedrock for every other part of the tiering system for philosophy at the very end?
 
Phoenks said:
The problem is that I believe Chinese verses disqualify themselves by making all their levels of existence accessible via some amount of hierarchical ascendance.

Like, the "Dao," as a lone concept, most likely qualifies for Tier 0 in the same way I think the Monad, Form of Good, Brahman, Supreme Ultimate Reality, and etc... would also be Tier 0.

But Xianxia often has characters become one with the Dao, or even "transcend" the Dao, which disqualifies it.
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Journey to the west. Characters were they reach "absolute omnipotence"
vsbattles.fandom.com

Gao Chuan (Yin Tian Shen Yin)

Gao Chuan, originally hailing from Earth, was unexpectedly transported to an unknown world under mysterious circumstances. In this new realm, he was lucky enough to stumbled upon a core, a repository of ancient wisdom of long forgotten age that many believed was destroyed. With this core...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
 
 
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