-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
The Champion of Cyrodiil vs Aqua (Kingdom Hearts)
- Thread starter Bat_Siri
- Start date
- 10,151
- 3,824
"FRB"? Also, more details on how/why he stomps?
- 60
- 0
- Thread starter
- #5
Yeah, some more detail would be nice
- 60
- 0
- Thread starter
- #7
Metaphysic?
- 9,539
- 10,915
Hero of Kvatch stomps FRA
Now I've trapped you in a weirder version of CHIM.
In all seriousness, though, since Champion of Cyrodiil is a Prisoner (rpg protagonist but canon) that means Aqua will be immediately annihilated by pretty much everything that CoC has.
- 60
- 0
- Thread starter
- #11
Even with the base game Oblivion stuff?
- 1,746
- 146
His being is alway been
- 60
- 0
- Thread starter
- #13
???
- 10,151
- 3,824
CoC does so even at 4-C & with Speed Equalized?
Anyway, looking at his profile in base, CoC seems to lack any resistances. CoC has Resistances listed, yes... but in the Pelinal Reborn's keys Powers & Abilities, & we're using the Champion of Cyrodiil key here.
So, what stops our multiformed master from being subject to things like these?:
So I suppose it should be clarified: Does the CoC function as though he is in multiple locations, or only as if he is in a single location? In the case of the former, I'd assume she has AoE for at least a few of her spells, & for the latter (& arguably the former as well.), she has Shotlocks.
Shotlocks: Shotlocks are powerful abilities that allow Aqua to lock on to multiple targets or focus on a single target before unleashing a powerful barrage of attacks on all of them, dealing massive damage in the process.
Barrier: Unlike her friends, Aqua generates an omnidirectional barrier to block incoming attacks instead of blocking them with her Keyblade, leaving no blind spots.
Anyway, looking at his profile in base, CoC seems to lack any resistances. CoC has Resistances listed, yes... but in the Pelinal Reborn's keys Powers & Abilities, & we're using the Champion of Cyrodiil key here.
So, what stops our multiformed master from being subject to things like these?:
- Bind: Locks the target in place, preventing them from moving from their current position.
- Blackout: Aqua completely blinds her foes to make it extremely difficult for them to land physical attacks or properly aim.
- Blizzaga: Aqua creates a sizable, spiked chunk of ice that deals heavy ice-elemental damage.
- Mini: Aqua shrinks her foes to the size of an ant, proportionally lowering their speed, strength, and durability. In addition, their small size allows them to be crushed simply by stepping on them.
- Stopga: Aqua instantly freezes time around her foes, leaving them helpless.
- Transcendence: Creates an inescapable anti-gravity field that allows Aqua to toss her foe around at her leisure.
So I suppose it should be clarified: Does the CoC function as though he is in multiple locations, or only as if he is in a single location? In the case of the former, I'd assume she has AoE for at least a few of her spells, & for the latter (& arguably the former as well.), she has Shotlocks.
Shotlocks: Shotlocks are powerful abilities that allow Aqua to lock on to multiple targets or focus on a single target before unleashing a powerful barrage of attacks on all of them, dealing massive damage in the process.
- Bubble Blaster: Aqua unleashes a torrent of bubbles from the tip of her Keyblade, dealing explosive water damage to all foes caught by them.
- Prism Rain: Aqua fires several salvos of colorful homing projectiles that converge on the target to deal heavy magic damage.
- Lightbloom: Aqua's most powerful Shotlock, she spins around while firing homing blasts of light in all directions, dealing massive damage to all foes caught by this attack.
Barrier: Unlike her friends, Aqua generates an omnidirectional barrier to block incoming attacks instead of blocking them with her Keyblade, leaving no blind spots.
- Barrier Surge: Aqua rushes forward while casting Barrier, deflecting incoming attacks and knocking aside foes in the process.
- 10,151
- 3,824
Forgive my asking, but what is?
- 60
- 0
- Thread starter
- #19
???
- 3,707
- 2,720
Being "A Prisoner" in The Elder Scrolls means you are an acausal being, an impossipoint in the fabric of time free from the chains of causality.
What this means practically is that A Prisoner has simultaneously taken every action possible. What that translates to in battle, is that they have already done everything they possibly could do to their opponent.
Last edited:
- 10,151
- 3,824
Ah yes.
Also, I missed reading this part when I first skmmed the profile:
Acausality (Type 4. As a Prisoner, The Champion of Cyrodiil is an Impossipoint, a tear in the fabric of Time which exists outside of all Possibility and is unbound by the chains of causality and deterministic fate which pervade through the Dream of the Godhead)
& I presume Speed Equalized doesn't affect their capacity to indeed have already taken every possible action due to their Acausality?
Though, technically, if they have taken every action possible, haven't they also taken every losing action possible? Ex: Those where they drink a potion that poisons or massively damages their HP or other vital stats?
Sure, they've probably also taken every winning action possible....
So I guess we have the questions of
1. Are the amount of possible actions The Prisoner can take in this match's scenario finite or infinite? There are some they can't take, due to SBA. (For example, forfeiting by running away, but Infinity -1 would still be Infinity.)
2. Are we able to assess what portions of actions result to their benefit, detriment, &/or assess which portion affect them inconclusively?
- 3,707
- 2,720
It does, actually. Their acausality makes it so that they have taken every action possible, but their opponent isn't acausal, and hasn't. For example:
There's a timeline where A Prisoner punches a character, and the character responds by blocking. There's also a timeline where the Prisoner punches, but then pulls back, the character still blocked. There is NOT a timeline where A Prisoner goes to punch a character, and they just stand there. The Prisoner doesn't do everything, but everything possible, given that the other character is not acausal and will always respond the same way to the same stimuli.
In short, the scenarios still play out as if there was one timeline, just all at once. Therefore, the speed equalization will be in effect in every one of those scenarios.
Yes. There is infinite scenarios where they decide to simply kill themselves. If there are winning actions, they've also taken those, but again, they can only do what is possible, not just everything they can think of.
What we do, is quantify infinities. For example, there are infinite timelines where they decide to simply kill themselves at the beginning of the battle, and for simplicity we can combine all of those into -1. If punching the opposing character would result in a win, there are infinite timelines where they punch them in some fashion, and so we can combine all of those into +1, then do that for all general scenarios, and sum them.
Basically, to determine if A Prisoner wins a fight against a character who isn't also acausal, you have to actually calculate the number of winning scenarios, and losing scenarios. If it's a positive number, they win. If it's a negative number, they lose. If it's zero, it's inconclusive.
Usually, when an RPG character is battled, you determine what outcome is most likely, but for A Prisoner, all outcomes are truly equally likely, and so you must assess whether or not there are literally more ways to win than to lose.
In the games, this almost always cancels out to zero, and as a result their actions are lost to history. Usually, the only constant interactions they have is with beings who are also acausal (like Alduin), or that transcend them completely (like Sheogorath).
- 3,898
- 541
Excuse me? Really?
- 3,707
- 2,720
I suppose if you had to pick a winner, yes. Though, I'm of the opinion that the shenanigans make most things inconclusive, since to do so you have to make some technically false assumptions about the nature of infinity.
- 10,151
- 3,824
Though, going by what you said, they take an infinite quantity of actions against their non-Acausal opponent, who only takes a finite number of actions.
Does this mean:
A. A singular Aqua is attacked by an infinite number of Prisoners, OR
B. For every one of the infinities, there is a distinct instance of The Prisoner/Champion of Cyrodill vs Aqua?
So I guess we're back to what's Aqua's opening move, & what are the statistical differences in AP, Durability, Striking Strength, etc.?
Technically, Speed is Equalized, so CoC won't speed blitz, but....
Does this mean:
A. A singular Aqua is attacked by an infinite number of Prisoners, OR
B. For every one of the infinities, there is a distinct instance of The Prisoner/Champion of Cyrodill vs Aqua?
So I guess we're back to what's Aqua's opening move, & what are the statistical differences in AP, Durability, Striking Strength, etc.?
Technically, Speed is Equalized, so CoC won't speed blitz, but....
- 6,253
- 2,677
Btw the whole "he could kill himself or run" while that is true is not "real"
For example there must have been one CoC who ran and did not help with oblivion yet history follows the line where the hero wins
What this basically means is that their success/victory overwrites their loss
So if he has a wincon that wincon overwrites any loss so that he wins
So is not really a "if he has more wincons he wins or if he has more loss he loses"
As his victory overwrites the loss and history/battle goes with it
For example there must have been one CoC who ran and did not help with oblivion yet history follows the line where the hero wins
What this basically means is that their success/victory overwrites their loss
So if he has a wincon that wincon overwrites any loss so that he wins
So is not really a "if he has more wincons he wins or if he has more loss he loses"
As his victory overwrites the loss and history/battle goes with it
- 10,151
- 3,824
How do we know that applies here, as opposed to being a product of a prophecy specific to the events of TES?
If someone has a prophecy about defeating X & it makes where results where they lose to X are overwritten, who says that prophecy's rules apply if they fight Y instead of X?
- 6,253
- 2,677
They really are not bound by prophecies like a normal person would
Their prophecies are more of a "u can become a hero by doing xyz"
But they can quite literally ignore them and do nothing about them if they want due to them not being bound by fate
Their prophecies are more of a "u can become a hero by doing xyz"
But they can quite literally ignore them and do nothing about them if they want due to them not being bound by fate
- 10,151
- 3,824
@Shmooply & @TOAAPRESENCE1 : Apologies, but I think you misunderstood what I was asking. Sorry for any confusion.
To attempt to clarify: I was asking what's the reason for the "outcomes where they don't win are overwritten by those where they do" part come from? Statement? Scan? Is it a prophecy?
When, where & how was it stated, & in relation to any kinds of events?
Last edited:
- 6,253
- 2,677
Basically all history and all events follow their victory even timelines where they "lose,run,due etc." Are overwhelmed and overwritten by the timelines where they win
- 6,253
- 2,677
Basically:
Timeline A: he wins by using xyz
Timeline B: loses by using xyz
Timeline A would basically overwrites timeline B
Timeline A: he wins by using xyz
Timeline B: loses by using xyz
Timeline A would basically overwrites timeline B
- 10,151
- 3,824
I understand that much, & don't disbelieve that it's true, but I'd like to know what part of The Elder Scrolls establishes this, to try & better understand it, if that's alright?
Are there screenshots of the dialogue or records of says exactly what that you can direct me to, please?
- 6,253
- 2,677
The easiest thing imo is to go to the UESP since all the info from all games (lore) and books etc. Is there
But I can't really say "read this book" cus all the info and lore is scattered around, and then u have to read a lot of methaphysics and try to simplify all of that stuff
- 3,707
- 2,720
The only constants that I know of, and are confirmed by UESP are: The Main Quest, The Shivering Isles, and that DLC where you fight Umaril the Unfeathered. ALL of these involve Daedric Princes, which fits into the theme of interactions with Daedra being consistent, Mehrune's Dagon, Sheogorath, and Meridia, respectively.
Everything else is simply unkown, so by what basis do you say only their victories count? All I see is evidence that Daedra are immune to their acausality, which we already knew.
Everything else is simply unkown, so by what basis do you say only their victories count? All I see is evidence that Daedra are immune to their acausality, which we already knew.
- 3,707
- 2,720
Option B is correct.
Bobsican
He/Him- 21,628
- 6,273
- 6,253
- 2,677
oof
Similar threads
- Locked
