• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

The Big Bleach Speed CRT

Status
Not open for further replies.
I ask for no more derailing on "dictatorships". We're currently back on track with focusing on making sure the scaling is correct.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Also, the dumpster fire in this thread needs to end.

Stop accusing people of being dictators all because they have what we call “disagreements”. It doesn’t do anything but make more trouble.
Click to expand...
Is not that they ”disagree” with something. Is more like ”everything” brought up by Damage was accepted off camera with no public argument and closed before 24 hours. Every single objection was rejected. After the thread was open again Damage didn't even settle for middle ground on anything. He keeps forcing his ”ideals” on everyone who disagrees, going in circles until people agree with him. Why have a thread in the first place? May as well go and do all the changes he wants. Oh, and I have been here since the thread started reading each comment posted.
 
...Didn't Aaroniero look back at the hole...Which means he's unknowingly exposing himself to light, if the clothes he wears cover him...Then him turning around to face the hole means the light would directly go into his face? Also if you're a person who spends a lot of time in the dark you never directly face the light because it hurts your eyes, I know that myself, I can't actually look up once I spend too much time in home
 
Damage3245 said:
I ask for no more derailing on "dictatorships". We're currently back on track with focusing on making sure the scaling is correct.
Click to expand...
Forcing the people to shut up is what a dictator would say. That's abuse of power and disrespect to someone with free speech.
 
@AppleLord; to keep the thread on topic, that is what is required.

Now then, do you have anything further to add about the Quincy Arrows? Or can we move on from that.
 
@Damage3245 is probably better updating the sandbox ratings to have a general overview.

So we can discuss minor scaling issues. Or stuffs like that. Independently from quincy arrow stuffs etc. Maybe check USklaverei sandbox.
 
Jvando said:
Tbh Arc, I would hardly call what you’ve said to support your assumptions “Hard evidence”. From where I stand, I just see an assumption stacked on top of another assumption just to justify another assumption:
Click to expand...
Then you're blind.

Jvando said:
(Assumption 1): There were no “burn marks” on Aaroniero’s face as such he must have dodged before the light had hit him

I’ve already explained why this doesn’t have to be the case. Regardless of whether you agree with me or not, you have to agree that there are multiple explanations for this, one being he simply wasn’t exposed to enough light for a long enough period of time for his disguise to start to fade. The effect just might not be instant and he got out of the way after light had hit him just in time before his disguise started to fade. You also brought up a good point:
Click to expand...
Aaroniero says "I cannot use my abilities in sunlight." Going by this statement, the instant he's in sunlight his disguise would begin the process of dropping. So when we see that his disguise doesn't begin dropping, I draw the conclusion he evaded light.

Jvando said:
You’re right, we aren’t, so why should we assume it’s instant anymore than it takes a few seconds? Additionally, in the panel you do bring up to say it’s instant, I could very well say “he was held in place for a second or two and wasn’t able to escape in time”. The panels itself don’t tell us the effect of his transformation loss is instant as the timeframe between panels can easily be at least a couple seconds.
Click to expand...
Aaroniero says "I cannot use my abilities in sunlight." This statement implies no timeframe, it implies this: out of sunlight Aaroniero's ability works, in sunlight it doesn't work. Which would then mean if sunlight hit him he'd begin the process of dropping his disguise. You can say whatever you want about an assumed timeframe, but back it up. I backed my interpretation up with a statement, and following logic using the least amount of assumptions.

Jvando said:
You then use assumption 1 to try and support Assumption 2: The shading in the panel indicates his face was covered by shadows

This assumption has already been discussed in depth about why this might not be the case and the “evidence” you use to support this assumption is just another assumption.
Click to expand...
Actually I support the shading meaning his face was in the shadows because his face is shaded. The visuals speak for themselves. However, some of you would like to assert that his shaded face is indicative of being illuminated by light. That which none of you have supported outside, maybe I think the author was going for this. It's simple I'm removing assumptions from my logic, his face is shaded to me means his face is shaded, to you his face is shaded means his face is illuminated quite the assumption.

Jvando said:
Then you use assumption 2 to try and claim Assumption 3: Aaroniero dodged the light from the hole before it hit him

All I’m saying is that there isn’t any “hard evidence” to support your main assumption being the Assumption of authorial intent in the shading. It’s just assumptions stacked together to try and justify a feat that’s dubious at best.
Click to expand...
Aaroniero's face being shaded in meaning his face his shaded is no assumption, it's me taking what I see at face value. You are riddling your counter arguments with assumptions like, maybe his face being shaded is an artistic liberty. So no, I follow panel progression and take what I see at face value to avoid assumptions to come to my conclusion.

Jvando said:
You think staff just like to FRA each other? Staff are humans took and each have their own biases of their own, big or small. Sometimes we agree, and sometimes we don’t but if most staff agree with a certain interpretation of things, more often than not, there’s a good reason and not just staff supporting each other.
Click to expand...
You misspelled 'most of the time' when you typed 'sometimes' first and then you misspelled 'rarely' when you typed 'sometimes' the second time.
 
You staff keep bringing up hypothetical interpretations that are far less founded in evidence than my very own, and saying well because it could have happened like this we can't grant any interpretation for it. No shit genius, I can interpret anything however I want, it's which interpretation has the most and best supporting evidence that matters.
 
@Arc7Kuroi; I won't tolerate insults towards other users here, especially someone like Jvando who has taken time out of his day to wade into this mess of a thread and lend some help in evaluating these feats.

Take this as an official warning. Calling somebody that you disagree with blind just because they don't agree with your point of view is not acceptable.
 
I am confused on this shading/illuminated point. Didn’t someone literally link the coloured version that shows he was not hit by the light yet? The very next panel where Rukia has been hit by the light is coloured completely differently and actually shows that she has been illuminated by the sunlight. Why have people been arguing for 2 pages about it?

Edit: Just CTRL+F’d “shad” on the previous page and found it.
 
Damage3245 said:
I won't tolerate insults towards other users here
Click to expand...
No you won't tolerate insults to staff, you've tolerated plenty of insults between regular members, get off your high horse.

AnonymousBlank said:
I am confused on this shading/illuminated point.
Click to expand...
I'm confused too, last time I checked when the author shaded your face, unless there was reason to assume otherwise, you'd just assume their face is in shadows. It's almost like sunlight is quite literally the pivotal focus of the scene... whole lot of hoop jumping to discredit the feat. It's wild the first time damage suggested that the shading doesn't indicate shading, I thought he was being a funny guy, but he was serious about it yikes. Not that he's provided any evidence to specifically say that in that panel Aaroniero isn't shaded either, that hasn't been refuted at least.
 
Coming into this thread:

1. It seems more staff input is necessary. People seem to be getting slightly ragey, and considering it's a 14-page-long thread, that's understandable.

2. Damage and Jvando are making good points; they're not outright denying any claims from the manga, they're simply pointing out there's too much ability to argue it's not succinct and clear. The fact they can argue this for so long, and keep bringing new points, should speak volumes for how 'solid' the feat is.

3. Arguing artistic intent and shading to prove feats almost never works out well. At this point in the thread, since it's relying on such subtleties to prove a point, honestly I would say it isn't worth applying. Even if the light dodge/s were accepted now, the fact that there's so many holes in the argumentation supporting them would inexorably lead to their downgrading further down the road for lack of proper, sound, rationale.


Considering the above points, more staff input should occur, people should take a slight break to let cooler heads prevail, and I support damage's arguments thus far.
 
Xulrev said:
Coming into this thread:

1. It seems more staff input is necessary. People seem to be getting slightly ragey, and considering it's a 14-page-long thread, that's understandable.

2. Damage and Jvando are making good points; they're not outright denying any claims from the manga, they're simply pointing out there's too much ability to argue it's not succinct and clear. The fact they can argue this for so long, and keep bringing new points, should speak volumes for how 'solid' the feat is.

3. Arguing artistic intent and shading to prove feats almost never works out well. At this point in the thread, since it's relying on such subtleties to prove a point, honestly I would say it isn't worth applying. Even if the light dodge/s were accepted now, the fact that there's so many holes in the argumentation supporting them would inexorably lead to their downgrading further down the road for lack of proper, sound, rationale.


Considering the above points, more staff input should occur, people should take a slight break to let cooler heads prevail, and I support damage's arguments thus far.
Click to expand...
The Arroniero thing only started at page 12 or something. It wasn't that long at all, sounds more like both sides are just stubborn in their views rather than simply that good since most of the times we're just repeating ourselves. Also instead of shading to indicate illumination shouldn't Kubo be LIGHTING up Aaroniero's face in order to indicate light hitting him instead of shading his face in a darker tone?
 
- Last panel of the page where the wall begins to crumble

- The “shade”

Even if I grant that the shaded in panel represents his face being covered in shadows, it still wouldn’t mean that Aaroniero dodged before the light hit his face...he never directly faced the light to begin with. The second panel on the second image I linked just zooms in on the expression shown on the first image I linked. You can see that his face isn’t angled in such a way that the light from the cracks would directly hit his face.
 
Jvando said:
Even if I grant that the shaded in panel represents his face being covered in shadows, it still wouldn’t mean that Aaroniero dodged before the light hit his face...he never directly faced the light to begin with. The second panel on the second image I linked just zooms in on the expression shown on the first image I linked. You can see that his face isn’t angled in such a way that the light from the cracks would directly hit his face.
Click to expand...
Light doesn't need to hit his face specifically, it just needs to hit him in general. It hits his back and back of his head when his disguise is dropped. Plus he's clearly looking back towards to wall. So yes granting the shading = shading it would mean he evaded light.
 
Last edited:
I believe that the anime depiction is still relevant so I'll address that again. Arc7, you're primary objection was that the anime seemingly contradicted itself (and the manga) by having the second time Aaroniero react to the light be different?

Well, the amount of time he was exposed to the light the first time around was 13:24 - 13:26 or roughly two seconds, and the second time around the amount of time it took from him to be exposed to having his disguise begin to burn/melt away was: 15:32 - 15:37 or roughly five seconds.

So I don't think there is a contradiction there in the anime. The two situations are different and they're different because the first time around Aaroniero was able to move freely and retreat into the the shadows, which was not possible the second time around.
 
Can anyone post the official colored chapter by Viz? That way we can end the discussion. I said official because there are fake colored chapters out there.
 
@USklaverei; For the most I'm only going by what the profiles currently have them set up as.

Once the ratings and justifications are done, we can look into sorting the keys out and changing them.

One thing I've noticed, we don't apply a multiplier for Resureccion to every Arrancar, correct? The only ones I think we do it for are Grimmjow and Ulquiorra - from what I've seen.
 
@USklaverei; should we also make this the case for the Hollow Mask power-up for Vizards? Right now I think almost all of the Vizard's are listed with a multiplier for their Hollowfication instead of case-by-case.
 
Damage3245 said:
@AppleLord; 5x.
Click to expand...
The multiplier so far applies to Gentei Kaijo, Bankai, Resurrection, and the Vizard Masks, correct? On second thought, the mask Ichigo used against Grimmjow wasn't completed at the time, and he only mastered the mask in his final battle against Grimmjow. At least the x5 of Ichigo's mask cannot be scaled until that fight where he matched his Resurrection. What about Vollstanding?
 
Last edited:
@USklaverei; I'm going offline for now - haven't had as much free time as I'd like - but if you want to edit the sandbox as well, feel free. I'm sure I've missed some of the profiles that need updating for justifications.
 
Damage3245 said:
I believe that the anime depiction is still relevant so I'll address that again. Arc7, you're primary objection was that the anime seemingly contradicted itself (and the manga) by having the second time Aaroniero react to the light be different?

Well, the amount of time he was exposed to the light the first time around was 13:24 - 13:26 or roughly two seconds, and the second time around the amount of time it took from him to be exposed to having his disguise begin to burn/melt away was: 15:32 - 15:37 or roughly five seconds.

So I don't think there is a contradiction there in the anime. The two situations are different and they're different because the first time around Aaroniero was able to move freely and retreat into the the shadows, which was not possible the second time around.
Click to expand...
I'll drop these two images and then leave the topic be.

When Aaroniero is definitely hit by light (not called into question) we see his face illuminated. Kubo even making the effort to draw the shadows cast by his nose onto his side of his face.

Here Kubo doesn't illuminate his face.

So in the instance where we 100% know Aaroniero was illuminated by light Kubo make's sure to show light hitting him visually, while in the panels where he "dodged" light Kubo makes no effort to visually display light hitting him.

What I'm saying is when sunlight hits Aaroniero definitively, Kubo draws it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Possible Damage Transferral for Ichigo
Replies
22
Views
2K
Spilxson2
GarrixianXD
  • Locked
Genshin speed revision
2
Replies
78
Views
3K
Propellus
Propellus
ReaperAndBlues
  • Locked
Simple Additions For Pre-timeskip and Post-timeskip Ichigo
Replies
18
Views
924
ReaperAndBlues
ReaperAndBlues
MrCricket8464
Murder Drones Speed Upgrade
Replies
16
Views
2K
TRAE_is_arceus
TRAE_is_arceus
Dragonstitch
  • Locked
Iron Kingdoms CRT: Speed upgrades
Replies
7
Views
590
Dragonstitch
Dragonstitch
Back
Top