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The Big Bleach Speed CRT
- Thread starter Damage3245
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Except Starrk completely blitzed both Ichigo and Zaraki who are both in the same speed tier as Byakuya, the dude moved like an entire city away in the time they made a single cut . Ulquiorra was also much faster than that version of Ichigo.
Being good at shunpo doesnt mean being faster, because shunpo and the whole Utsusemi tree of skills is just that, a skill. That's obvious seeing Zaraki who doesn't even uses shunpo.
Same as Soi Fong and Yoruichi never blitzing anyone stronger than they are.
The Nnoitra thing is also something only he seemed to believe and there's nothing to eay to compare either since higher tiered Espada where only harmed by Ichigo, Aizen or hax.
It also contradics the notion that battles between spiritual beings are battles of reiatsu which is explained and repeated by Zaraki and Aizen.
Being good at shunpo doesnt mean being faster, because shunpo and the whole Utsusemi tree of skills is just that, a skill. That's obvious seeing Zaraki who doesn't even uses shunpo.
Same as Soi Fong and Yoruichi never blitzing anyone stronger than they are.
The Nnoitra thing is also something only he seemed to believe and there's nothing to eay to compare either since higher tiered Espada where only harmed by Ichigo, Aizen or hax.
It also contradics the notion that battles between spiritual beings are battles of reiatsu which is explained and repeated by Zaraki and Aizen.
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Starrk's feat is a little weird because he never demonstrates that level of speed again in any of his following battles, unless you're under the impression that Love, Rojuro and Shunsui can effortlessly blitz Kenpachi and Ichigo?
So you're saying Byakuya isn't one of the fastest Captains? And I never said you need to be good at Shunpo to be fast, generally however, those who are the most skilled at Shunpo are the fastest, that's just how it is.
It's not just a Nnoitra believed himself to have the strongest Hierro thing because it's stated in the databook, the only other person we have to compare with Nnoitra is Yammy in his Release because that's the only other Espada Kenpachi cut.
That verse mechanic was never really that prominent and it's appeared like twice in the story, as you said, when Kenpachi fights Ichigo and when Aizen supposedly nulls Soifon, I say supposedly because a lot of people believe he was just using KS to make it seem like that's what happened.
Regardless, it's stated multiple times that Nnoitra has the hardest Hierro and Zommari has the fastest Sonido, this is a fact.
So you're saying Byakuya isn't one of the fastest Captains? And I never said you need to be good at Shunpo to be fast, generally however, those who are the most skilled at Shunpo are the fastest, that's just how it is.
It's not just a Nnoitra believed himself to have the strongest Hierro thing because it's stated in the databook, the only other person we have to compare with Nnoitra is Yammy in his Release because that's the only other Espada Kenpachi cut.
That verse mechanic was never really that prominent and it's appeared like twice in the story, as you said, when Kenpachi fights Ichigo and when Aizen supposedly nulls Soifon, I say supposedly because a lot of people believe he was just using KS to make it seem like that's what happened.
Regardless, it's stated multiple times that Nnoitra has the hardest Hierro and Zommari has the fastest Sonido, this is a fact.
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Tbh I can see shunsui blitzing kenpachi
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I'm in agreement with Purgy.
Battles in Bleach are not just whoever has more energy decides all things.
Battles in Bleach are not just whoever has more energy decides all things.
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Shunsui can keep up with Yamamoto and Lille who himself can fight royal guards, he is definitely blitzing HM Ichigo and Byakuya if he felt like it. Also Starrk is faster than Shunsui.
The vizards where defeated when Starrk decided to take things more seriously.
Ulquiorra alone shows Zommari is wrong, because Ichigo is equal or faster than Byakuya.
Statements are unreliable without feats and the reiatsu mechanic is a thing trough the whole manga, the Ichigo and Aizen fight are just the ones where they explain how it works.
The novel also goes into that again, Husagi has a reiatsu burst that exponentially increases all his stats to the point of matching Tokinada.
The big thing against Nnoitra is that Ichigo's GT should be stronger than a random Zaraki slash and that GT couldn't harm Ulquiorra.
They really are thoug, unless you bring hax.
And even hax is useless if the difference in reiatsu is too much.
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Are you sure? Because Ichigo's Getsuga Tensho only nicked Yammy whereas a random Zaraki slash could lop off Yammy's whole leg.
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That Zaraki had several power ups from the one that coun cut Nnoitra, and that Ichigo that had only half of his power might also be weaker than pre-Cero Oscuras Ichigo.
To be clear, that Ichigo is stronger when it reaches SS after Unohana does her thing.
The thing with Yammy is that even Byakuya can harm the guy with casual attacks, so is hard to be precise about anything with him.
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No idea why you mentioned Lille when that's TYBW Shunsui, regardless, I didn't bring up Shunsui to say he couldn't blitz Kenpachi and Ichigo, I brought him up because he's just somebody that fought Starrk.
Starrk can be faster than Shunsui but Shunsui was still able to keep up and fight him.
The Vizoreds were able to keep up with Resurreccion Starrk and his Wolves, and Resurreccion Starrk should be 5x faster than Base Starrk and his profile even mentions he does get a speed boost from his Resurreccion, by your logic both Vizoreds should be capable of effortlessly blitzing Ichigo and Kenpachi without even using their mask, which obviously makes no sense.
We actually scale Byakuya above no mask Ichigo in speed according to their profiles.
Single statements are questionable on their own, but multiple that say the same thing? I personally put more value in statements from the author than I do in feats, but that might just be me.
A Reiatsu increase would correlate to a stat increase yes, that doesn't prove however that having higher Reiatsu automatically makes you stronger than people with lesser Reiatsu by default, there are times where it's safe to say it does, but it's not always the case, a good example is Yammy, he has the most Reiatsu out of the Espada, would you say he's faster than Starrk? Byakuya was able to keep up with him.
Starrk can be faster than Shunsui but Shunsui was still able to keep up and fight him.
The Vizoreds were able to keep up with Resurreccion Starrk and his Wolves, and Resurreccion Starrk should be 5x faster than Base Starrk and his profile even mentions he does get a speed boost from his Resurreccion, by your logic both Vizoreds should be capable of effortlessly blitzing Ichigo and Kenpachi without even using their mask, which obviously makes no sense.
We actually scale Byakuya above no mask Ichigo in speed according to their profiles.
Single statements are questionable on their own, but multiple that say the same thing? I personally put more value in statements from the author than I do in feats, but that might just be me.
A Reiatsu increase would correlate to a stat increase yes, that doesn't prove however that having higher Reiatsu automatically makes you stronger than people with lesser Reiatsu by default, there are times where it's safe to say it does, but it's not always the case, a good example is Yammy, he has the most Reiatsu out of the Espada, would you say he's faster than Starrk? Byakuya was able to keep up with him.
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@Damage3245 Yammy attack speed need to be added at least, even kisuke cound not dodge easily his bala (he needed to counter them) and his cero are top tier. Just Uknown is wrong.
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I'm fine with changing Yammy's base Key to High Hypersonic.
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yammy with bala should be mhs as thats x20 normal cero
and yoruichi who is high hypersonic couldnt dodge his normal cero
and the mhs should be given to urahara and whoever scales to him
as he had enough time to make a gigai and switch places before all the balas hit him and dodged one normally
and yoruichi who is high hypersonic couldnt dodge his normal cero
and the mhs should be given to urahara and whoever scales to him
as he had enough time to make a gigai and switch places before all the balas hit him and dodged one normally
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Thanks for the evaluation. I've updated the profiles with what is there for now.
How so?
I'm guessing that would be from scaling to Ulquiorra's Resureccion somehow, and then doubling his speed to get Sub-Rel?
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It controls doubling its speed, so it would be Sub-Relativistic, I had put this
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Because Shunsui is among the captains that don't become stronger between arcs so anything he does in any part of it is valid for any version.
It's just 2 statements for Nonoitra and 2 for Zommari, the source is themselves and the databook which might be just echoing them, it's not like Aizen said something or like Kenpachi fought a stronger Espada and said they has weaker hierro, as it stands all we have is the word of Nnoitra and Zommari and they shouldnt even be aware of the other Espadas powers.
What they say also goes against the reiatsu rule and has feats that contradicts it in the Ulquiorra fight.
The Yammy thing might be one of the only exceptions in the manga, he isn't blitzing around because he is a giant, althoug he still needs to be decently fast to even challenge Ichigo and the captains.
Has anyone tried to calc the Grimmjow vs Luppy fight from the novel?
They where spamming, blocking and dodging bala IIRC
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Even if they don't know the specific abilities of the other Espada, they'd know their own place in the ranking.
If the absolute rule was a higher ranking = higher AP, speed & durability, then why would they even claim that they were the fastest Espada, or the most durable Espada?
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Shunsui very clearly does become stronger between arcs and his profile reflects this, even characters who aren't shown to train generally get stronger between arcs, that's just how Shonen manga works, natural power progression.
Even if Zommari and Nnoitra aren't aware of the other Espada's Sonido/Hierro, the person who wrote the databook is and they're confirming both Zommari's and Nnoitra's statement.
So you admit there are exceptions to the "Reiatsu rule"? Zommari and Nnoitra are an exception then, just like Yammy is, if you're admitting that higher Reiatsu doesn't always equal higher stats then you can't use it against Zommari nor Nnoitra.
Even if Zommari and Nnoitra aren't aware of the other Espada's Sonido/Hierro, the person who wrote the databook is and they're confirming both Zommari's and Nnoitra's statement.
So you admit there are exceptions to the "Reiatsu rule"? Zommari and Nnoitra are an exception then, just like Yammy is, if you're admitting that higher Reiatsu doesn't always equal higher stats then you can't use it against Zommari nor Nnoitra.
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Because they are full of ego and deluded, being a crazy fanatic and a battle crazy guy that had planed to become the strongest.
They know their rank so they know the others are stronger, yet they claim with full confidence to have better hierro and shunpo based on absolutely nothing since they never saw the limits of the top Espada.
And then Ulquiorra and Starrk prove they where wrong.
No he doesn't, all senior captains are hinted at being at their absolute strongest from the start because they had completed their training ages ago, that's why they didnt change their haircut funnily enough. In the case of Shunsui he had already been to the royal palace too.
That's why SS Shunsui can fight Yamamoto.
No because there's feats that show they where wrong.
The person writing the databook might have just repeated what they claimed, after all it's not written by the author.
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By the way, I'm currently making a list of all Post-Timeskip profiles to see which will need adjusted in light of the Pre-Timeskip revisions.
It's likely a significant number of ratings will change, so I suggest that we don't do any more specific changes until this is sorted.
It's likely a significant number of ratings will change, so I suggest that we don't do any more specific changes until this is sorted.
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@Damage3245 Can you explain Shunsui being High Hypersonic instead of scaling to Yamamoto in his first key please? I'm assuming you're the one that gave him that rating.
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@Purgy; I've just updated Shunsui's rating. His justification before the changes put him as Massively Hypersonic in that key.
Also, I'd assume part of the issue is that their fight was almost entirely off-screen. We don't having serious to judge their performance by, other than they were both alive afterwards.
@Hasch; Unohana only has a single key.
Also, I'd assume part of the issue is that their fight was almost entirely off-screen. We don't having serious to judge their performance by, other than they were both alive afterwards.
@Hasch; Unohana only has a single key.
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this keeps getting ignored...
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Ukitake calls Yamamoto’s shikai flames transcedent. Yamamoto also calls Ukitake and Shunsui transcendent in the same fight. Shunsui helped Nanao destroy and weaken Lille Barro who was a God and possibly transcendent. Shunsui’s Bankai reiatsu was felt by Ichigo but Orihime and Chad who had previously fought him didn't recognize the reiatsu. It was just a weird feeling affecting their bodies.
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@AppleLord; "Transcendent" being used to describe Yamamoto doesn't necessarily mean the same thing as what was happening with Aizen and Ichigo.
Shunsui did nothing to help with destroying Lille.
Shunsui did nothing to help with destroying Lille.
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Well yeah, Aizen and Yamamoto are also at their absolute strongest from the start.
The whole point of Aizen was just that, he had reached his power limit.
Yama becomes weaker over time if anything.
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Shunsui is lazy and never trains. Ukitake and Shunsui were said to be transcendent above everyone else by Yamamoto himself.
Shunsui could had kill Aizen with his bankai according to a Kubo interview. And Shunsui held the sword while standing behind Nanao, and the sword didn't kill him like the legend said that it kills ”men.”
Shunsui could had kill Aizen with his bankai according to a Kubo interview. And Shunsui held the sword while standing behind Nanao, and the sword didn't kill him like the legend said that it kills ”men.”
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Shouldn't Base Isshin get a durability feat from tanking an attack from Condom Aizen? He got up very quickly and had enough reiatsu to hold the walls of the dangai that drained his power for 6 months. Isshin scales above Base Aizen since he also push the Hogyoku to evolve Aizen.
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"Could shunsui bankai kill aizen?"
"I like to make people believe that"
Or something like that he said
"I like to make people believe that"
Or something like that he said
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Kubo said Bankai Shunsui might be stronger than Aizen (Cocoon Aizen I believe), I think it's important to note that this was stated in 2010, 6+ years before Shunsui's Bankai was actually revealed, and the way Kubo words it is intentionally ambiguous, like most mangaka interview statements.
And neither Shunsui nor Jushiro are transcendent, I think that's pretty obvious.
And neither Shunsui nor Jushiro are transcendent, I think that's pretty obvious.
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Yet we know Yoruichi has a similar reiatsu level and there's stronger characters that aren't trascendent tier.
Starrk, Urahara, Tokinada, Aizen, Yamamoto, Byakuya, Unohana, etc.
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Yoruichi equal to Shunsui? Yoruichi was bleeding from Soifon's shikai. Yoruichi lost to Askin Nakk Le Varr a newbie to the Elite Quincy and Lille Barro was the leader of the Elite Quincy and a God. The Godslayer sword only cuts Gods. None of those characters are stronger than Shunsui according to Yamamoto, who is the exception of having transcendent reiatsu too. Check the updated images above.
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Could be. If you compare it to his databook stats. Kenpachi was hinted at been transcendent in the manga and he fought Hikone who became transcendent after fusing with the Hollow who ate a piece of the Soul King, and proceeded to negate Ichibei's bankai when Base Yhwach couldn't feel the reiatsu from Ichibei's shikai.
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