The 3-A Triforce

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I no longer get alerts to this thread, so that's nice.

Anyway, I still feel like some of the most important questions have been brushed aside.

This is a verse with direct feats that don't exceed mid-end Tier 4, with the sole exception being the actual god tiers who created the whole thing.

If people want to show that the Triforce has universal power, it's incredibly important to actually show this, or have very direct statements. These are requirements we have for pretty much every verse.

I feel as if so many of the responses to "show me the Triforce has warped a universe" boil down to "TLoZ takes place in a universe", which isn't what was being asked for.

The term "Light World" is repeatedly used to mean different things, including both the kingdom of Hyrule and the entirety of the world.


If we're going to upgrade this verse to 3-A based solely on hype that isn't even substantiated, I'm sorry, but that seems to blatantly ignore the standards we require of other verses.

Is there even a single statement that amounts to "the Triforce warped the entire universe" without just using the nebulous terms "Light World" or "Dark World"? This is like the bare minimum I'm asking for, here.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I agree with Azathoth, anything beyond Mid-Tier 4 is questionable and borderline unnaceptable and giving Zelda immense special treatment.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm also going to have to agree with Azathoth. If there's proof the "Realms" contain multiple galaxies among other things, then we can't even assume 3-B let alone 3-A. Though, Kepekley made a calc for destroying realms containing starry skies and reaching 4-A. If there's proof from the games; not the manga adaptations that the Sacred Realm contains many stars, then 4-A is reasonable.

But if nothing above is actually proven, then keep it 4-B and move on.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Azathoth's challenge is reasonable. I'm guessing this is the point of the discussion where we pour over the minutae of those quotes, translations, and such and try to determine if they are sufficiently specific and detailed. This will be a somewhat objective conclusion to draw, so majority vs. senority is up to... probably not me, anyway. I'll just add that I don't think this upgrade would be unusual or special treatment, and that such a metric is irrelevant to the subject at hand, regardless.

Anyway, I'll leave it up to the providers of those translations to cross-examine you on their nature, gentlemen; I'm better suited to making sure we're on the same page, not to determine what should be written on it.

@DDM - The size of the Dark World isn't in dispute (I hope); rather, Azathoth is challenging the supporters to determine if Ganon indeed did or could influence the whole thing. The second point of those three I kept bringing up.

 

[Eficiente]

I agree with Azzy as well.

 

[AshenCrow777]

if i Remember correctly @TP1 posted something about the Triforce was an artefact that sustained Space and Time.


"The ultimate force that grants wishes to anyone who touches. Triforce is the ultimate force, and Force is the foundation of Universal power."

-Translation by Reinhardthrowhisspear

"The Triforce is capable of sustaining Space-Time, as stated by the Great Deku Tree and it's stated that Lorule's collapse is caused by the fact that the destruction of the Triforce also caused the destruction of the reasons. Should be noted that the process of destruction wasn't finished yet and that the Lorule would've eventually be completely destroyed without the Triforce, meaning that the destruction of the reasons wasn't completed yet."

And this is the main source of the translated a link to the past http://www.zeldalegends.net/view/text/z3translation/z3_manual_story.html

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Is the sustaining space-time statement good enough evidence?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

As a feat of universe level power?

Doubtful, especially considering we actually see what happens to Lorule when their Triforce is destroyed, and while it starts to fall apart, it still isn't destroyed generations later, which is when ALBW takes place.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

That was more due to Link and them restoring it though.

 

[AshenCrow777]

The Japanese version says the Triforce was to rule/govern the world. The U.S. version makes the Triforce seem more like a subtle guide for the people.The Japanese version just says "the world" (sekai), it doesn't say

the "world of Hyrule." In fact, Hyrule was not mentioned at all in the entire Japanese version of the creation myth. The American version may not actually be wrong; after all, in OoT, the creation myth does say "Three golden goddesses descended upon the chaos that was Hyrule..." in both versions.

but the thing is they are 8 meaning to Sekai since it also can mean

Uchü space, cosmos.

Sekai world, society.

Tenchi heaven and earth, top and bottom, world, nature, realm.

Sanzensekai whole world.

Rikugō cosmos.

Kenkon heaven and earth.

Itsutenshikai world.

Dai uchü universe.

"It says here that the Sacred Realm is "somewhere in the world." The poem seems to say that too. But when we get to Ganondorf actually finding the Triforce, it says the Sacred Realm is another world. This may seem like an inconsistency. However, the word "sekai" is rather loose. It can mean "world," "society," or "universe." So its exact meaning may depend on the context, and on how you define "the world" (sekai). Holodrum and Labrynna are in the same "world" as Hyrule, but nevertheless they are different "societies." Similarly, Termina and Hyrule are in different "worlds," but perhaps they are in the same "universe." So, like Termina, perhaps the Sacred Realm is another world, but in the same sekai in the sense that Hyrule and the Sacred Realm are connected."

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

That was more due to Link and them restoring it though.

Lorule stopped falling apart due to Hyrule's Triforce being used to restore its Triforce.

The world itself was still in the process of falling apart during ALBW, which it had been for generations, as it was destroyed by Hilda's ancestors.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Wouldn't that be overtime space-time collapsing?

 

[AshenCrow777]

As a feat of universe level power?

Doubtful, especially considering we actually see what happens to Lorule when their Triforce is destroyed, and while it starts to fall apart, it still isn't destroyed generations later, which is when ALBW takes place.

i cant denie the process was slow but it does not change the fact that the whole world of lorule was getting destroyed since the main purpose of the triforce the 3 GG`s had for it, it was to maintaine the ballance of Space and Time there is a reason why Gods and Dieties alike can not us it it was made for the Hylians not them.

Hell the only way to save Lorule was by using The triforce in the Light Word and only it could undone what was happening nothing else.

The Japanese version says the Hylian people have magical powers because they were chosen by the gods. The U.S. version attributes this to their "magic infused blood," which loses the original sense of being a chosen people.

but since the Japanese text is the original it proves how important the TF was for the Hylians since the big 3 made it for them and only them

"The golden power from the gods' country [heaven] can be anywhere.

The touching person's wish, the gods deliver."

"The golden power lies somewhere descended from the heavens.

He who claims it as his own shall have their desires granted by the gods."

By gods they mean the GG's their power was so incredible it made them Low 2-C's

"That place was another world. It was a world different from our own. This land was like no other."

The Sacred Realm was literally another world and in the original text just replace Sekai by Univers or World/Cosmos its all about context and the Fact the Sacred Realm isnt in Hyrule but a whole other dimension makes things obvious the loz universe is basicaly like norse mythologie with the nine realms and all that different dimensions but each of them have universal size`s or at least big has a Galaxy (remember Wind Waker has constellations that goes as far has the edge of our Galaxy Casioppeia)

The Japanese word for "time/space" is the same word used in the OoA title.

but @ TP! said he was working on some proof and quots and he's also focus on a other Zelda thread so he will post something once he as all he need.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Is there a rule for overtime feats even if it's on a space-time scale?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Presumably, but we're not 100% sure what would have happened aside from "everything is eventually destroyed at some unspecified point in the future".

It should also be noted this happens because the Triforce acts as the foundation to the world, and without it, the world starts to fall apart.

Not really a raw power feat, but still impressive in showing the Triforce's importance to a world.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Is there a rule for overtime feats even if it's on a space-time scale?

Sometimes, if it's done via raw power.

This is more like knocking out the support for a house and watching as it slowly collapses in on itself.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

"Not really a raw power feat, but still impressive in showing the Triforce's importance to a world."

Azzy, don't patronize us with that "It's still impressive" shit

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

But it is, though. It's just really hard to tell when I'm being sarcastic.

 

[Wokistan]

To be fair, one could consider 9-C or even 10-A feats as impressive irl.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

8-C feats are impressive in RWBY.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Everyone knows nowadays unless you're at least a universe buster, you're not impressive. You think people look up to Bruce Lee? Michael Jordan? Gabby Douglas? No. They look up to [insert random 2-A Digimon here]

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Even 10-C feats are impressive in Pikmin.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Everyone knows nowadays unless you're at least a universe buster, you're not impressive. You think people look up to Bruce Lee? Michael Jordan? Gabby Douglas? No. They look up to [insert random 2-A Digimon here]

"I am Doom. Destroyer of worlds! What "Gods" dare stand against me?" - Minomon 2018

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Everyone knows nowadays unless you're at least a universe buster, you're not impressive. You think people look up to Bruce Lee? Michael Jordan? Gabby Douglas? No. They look up to [insert random 2-A Digimon here]

But Cal, Bruce Lee fought Chuck Norris and Michael Jordan is stronger than Bugs Bunny ovo

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

And Muhammad Ali blized and kicked Pre-Crisis Superman's ass.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Everyone knows nowadays unless you're at least a universe buster, you're not impressive. You think people look up to Bruce Lee? Michael Jordan? Gabby Douglas? No. They look up to [insert random 2-A Digimon here]

Michael Jordan has Tier 6 feats in a video game. He slammed so hard he shook all of New York City from miles beneath it.

I'm sure Bruce Lee has to have a Tier 3 feat somewhere.

 

[Konaguna]

Ughh what is the problem this time? I'm gone for an hour and I get loads of messages

 

[AshenCrow777]

Arent we Kind of ''derailing'' here...

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Shaquille O'Neal might have some good feats in Shaq Fu; and Michael Jackson has a super casual 3-C feat. Speaking of which, James Rolfe has a Low 1-C feat.

Okay, enough derailing. Also, we do seem to be arguing in circles at this point, so aren't we close to reaching closing time?

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Yeah, we should make a separate thread for this.

"Celebrities with good feats" or something.

 

[Phoenix821]

Good idea.

 

[Konaguna]

Okay, enough derailing. Also, we do seem to be arguing in circles at this point, so aren't we close to reaching closing time?

I agree, lets wrap this up because it's been going for more than a week.

 

[AshenCrow777]

Ughh what is the problem this time? I'm gone for an hour and I get loads of messages

You know what it is we all finaly decide to find some common ground to how make things work but we all know murphy's shitty law

If it CAN go wrong it Will go wrong

 

[Konaguna]

It's 2am here, I'm sick af and I need some rest, can I be assured that this thread won't turn into a shitstorm by the time I get back?

 

[AshenCrow777]

So if triforce cant be 3-A can it have a higer rating then 4-B because of the constellations you see in WW OOT MM BOTW since some of them are so far that it can reach the edge of the galaxy and others somewhat closs to it (perseus arm)

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

My issue definitely isn't that the Triforce can't be higher than 4-B, just that it hasn't shown to be.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Dark World/Sacred Realm just needs one nighttime showing to be higher than 4-B. The manga showed a night sky, but not the games, as they're all from a bird's eye view in the games its in.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

If we scream "POINT UP!!!" at the screen hard enough, will it work?

 

[Wokistan]

THey make a nighttime scene, only to specifically remove all the stars and stuff from the background. Truly, Zelda was not meant to break out of the hell that is 4-B.

 

[AshenCrow777]

My issue definitely isn't that the Triforce can't be higher than 4-B, just that it hasn't shown to be.

What about ganon warping the whole Sacred realm The Sacred Realm would serve as a mirror to reflect the heart of any who would enter it and come to claim the Triforce as their own.[11] If that person's heart was pure, the realm would become a paradise. However, if that person's heart was wicked, the Sacred Realm would become a world of evil. It is thought that if another would challenge and defeat the one who shattered the Triforce, the Sacred Realm would return to its former beauty.[12][13]

A whole dimension was turned into the dark world All of it the SM was the perfect mirrior world to Light World is this good enough?

I also edited my post much higher dont know if read it what other proof do we need to show (not mad just asking what we need more until TP1 post the thing he is working on) also the fact that the TF is told to have Universal power and also being omnipotent the 3 GG's made Hylia the guardian of it so nothing bad would happen but then the war against demise happened and since then its been a race to know who could get the full TF or even a piece of it.