[VL99] 1-A Invalid Cosmology.

[Lynieryz]

Thread 'Yumiella Sad Low 1-C downgrade + Cosmology Upgrade 1-A'

Jul 19, 2024

OP notes: Please Read it carefully as it may be confusing for none readers and I'm not proficient in English
or read the cosmology blog first, it's not that long

---

Intro:​

Cosmology is confirmed to have R>F transcendence For a Higher World. thus making them low 1-C for having an ontological difference

Multiverse level, possibly Low Complex Multiverse level with Keep Living (Keep Living is a sacred instrument that is used to manage the world, It’s a sword that can cut away unnecessary worlds, like pruning excess branches from the...

• Shiraito983
• villainess level 99 yumiella dolkness
• Replies: 32
• Forum: Content Revision

• 

It's quite simple, the cosmology was accepted as a 1-A because of the real Yumiella's soul.
Problems:
1° The real Yumiella's soul was manipulated by the Evil God, this goes directly against the entire argument in favor of 1-A.(This is an anti-feat because of a fictional being [Evil God] in relation to the real Yumiella's soul being able to interact with this soul)

So, I thought I’d give it a try, and put another soul inside you. It's a weak soul, drifting in the rift between dimensions. It’s likely to fail, but I was troubled enough to try it out.

「そこで物は試しと思ってだな、貴様の中に別な魂を入れてみた。次元の狭間を漂う弱々しい魂だ。まず駄目であろうが、それを試すほどには悩んでいたのだ」

2° The upgrade thread itself recognizes this as a problem and provides a solution: "Every world has a being that governs it(Caretaker), so the real world must also have one and this being reduced Yumiella's soul to a lower fictional level"
Let's get to the problems with this:
¹This was stated in relation to the tree worlds and the trees themselves. The upgrade itself recognizes and relies on the real world transcending the trees.

“Hmm, how do I put this into words...?” the god of evil pondered. “I hold all the parallel worlds branching off a single tree in the palm of my hand. This world is one branch of that tree. Just as there isn’t only one branch, there isn’t only one tree. I want to conquer the rest of the forest.”
Other trees would mean worlds that didn’t have the same laws, that didn’t share similarities with this one—to put it differently, otherworlds. Was the god unsatisfied with the worlds he already oversaw, such that he felt the need to invade otherworlds as well? “By that, do you mean otherworlds?” I asked. “Hm, ‘otherworld’... An excellent term, succinct and perfect. You understand my meaning, don’t you?” “Those otherworlds must have beings that oversee them as well.”
“Of course, and that’s where you come in: my champion to go up against those beings,” he said eagerly. “Those otherworlds aren’t my true objective either.” It appeared that his ambition went further. “One day, I had a thought: is this world truly a tree?”

“Could it be that I only think that the worlds I govern are part of their own tree? What if they’re actually a clump of branches on a much bigger tree? I can’t deny the possibility that this world might be something like a dollhouse created by a being from a much larger world. Picture it! Those beings could be watching us from above, enjoying us as entertainment!”
“Oh...!” I was going to say that sounds stupid, but I almost forgot. This world is the world of an otome game. There are definitely people who are enjoying this world as entertainment. I was one of those very people. “What’s wrong?” the god of evil asked, curious about the sound I’d made. “Oh, it’s nothing. Please continue.” “Well, from the perspective of those in that larger world, I’m nothing but a trivial being frolicking around in their tiny dollhouse. I’m just a clown to them!” Man, if I tell him that this is the world of an otome game, he might just explode from anger. Also, from the way he’s talking, it sounds like the world I’m originally from might be in danger. After gathering enough powerful pawns, the god of evil will probably end up invading Japan. After being attacked by an otome game, Japan will... Wait. Maybe it’s not actually that dangerous of a situation? Upon thinking about it, it just didn’t sound that dire. If you said a god from cyberspace was going to attack, that sounded more urgent. If you instead said it was a god from an otome game, it instantly sounded immensely unthreatening. Well, god of evil, you’re acting pretty high and mighty, but I hate to break it to you: this is just the world of a dating simulation, buddy. Either way, while this might’ve been the world of a fictional story, the people here were definitely alive, and they made their own choices. That seemed like enough of a qualification for somewhere to be considered a proper world. On top of that, there was no guarantee that Japan was the “original” world either. My first life could’ve been set in the world of a manga where sorcerers were secretly battling spirits behind the scenes in modern Japan, and my previous self was simply unaware of all that. And then, the world full of even higher beings reading that manga might not be the original either... And so, it was an endless cycle. I pointed this out. “Even if you were to take over the hypothetical world watching over this world, that world might be fictional, just another, bigger dollhouse.” “Then I’ll just take over the world above that one.” “There might be another world above even that one.” “Even if they go on forever, I’ll just continue climbing up.” His ambition knew no bounds. Even if he were to endlessly continue invading successive worlds, how would he ever know for certain that he’d reached the root of the tree?
I can’t keep dealing with this. I wonder: can he even observe Japan, or even any part of the world where the Japan in which I lived was located?

²For the real world to have a Caretaker, it would have to be on the same existential level as trees, as this is a characteristic exclusively attributed to trees.
³At no point was it stated in the story that the real world has a Caretaker and that the real Yumiella's soul was reduced to a lesser fictional level.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Thread 'Yumiella Sad Low 1-C downgrade + Cosmology Upgrade 1-A'

Jul 19, 2024

OP notes: Please Read it carefully as it may be confusing for none readers and I'm not proficient in English
or read the cosmology blog first, it's not that long

---

Intro:​

Cosmology is confirmed to have R>F transcendence For a Higher World. thus making them low 1-C for having an ontological difference

Multiverse level, possibly Low Complex Multiverse level with Keep Living (Keep Living is a sacred instrument that is used to manage the world, It’s a sword that can cut away unnecessary worlds, like pruning excess branches from the...

• Shiraito983
• villainess level 99 yumiella dolkness
• Replies: 32
• Forum: Content Revision

• 

It's quite simple, the cosmology was accepted as a 1-A but this goes against the accepted standard.

Reality-Fiction Transcendence

It is not uncommon in fiction for characters to view lesser realities as if they were fiction, in much the same way as a real world human would view fiction. Frequently that comes in the form of almighty author characters which can freely rewrite those lesser realities. The other way around...

vsbattles.fandom.com

The multiverse consists of cyberspace worlds that exist within a game.

This is shown more explicitly through Reality Warping which works by manipulating the game code.

Nothing of this contradicts the current ratings, you just proved that the multiverse is fictional in relation to the Higher World, which is exactly the point of the 1-A upgrade.

As per our standards:

Qualifiers​

Potential mediums for viewing a cosmology as fiction include: written media (Books or stories), images (Paintings, comics, or movies), data (Simulations or video games), or mental constructs (thoughts or dreams). All of the above would be considered less 'real' than the person who views the cosmology as such, and can directly imply qualitative superiority. Note that the medium is usually a representation or container for the fiction on a higher plane and not necessarily the fiction in itself.

The Real World see the entire multiverse of Villainess 99 as fiction because to them, it's literally just a game, a lower reality, there's a qualitative difference between a game and the World

 

[SweetDao]

The only point I can understand would be equalizing (to some extent) the "real world" and the Otome world, but beside this, I don't think there is much to discuss.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

@Bernkastelll pretty much summarized my thoughts on this too; I disagree.

 

[Voidnether]

As someone who doesn't follow the verse at all (Last I saw, it was about Yumiella being able to summon blackhole iirc). I still think this being accepted so straightforward is the main flaw with R>F in its entirety, for someone who doesn't know this verse that much. What stops them from thinking that it's just an analogy to indicate a higher dimension? And that's literally what's happening here, I mean this is basically the same like The Eminence in Shadow in a way.. So yeah, I got to agree with this unless someone refutes all the points I've made.

 

[Bernkastelll]

. What stops them from thinking that it's just an analogy to indicate a higher dimension?

Because it's not an analogy, the multiverse of Otome is literally a game

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

it's just an analogy to indicate a higher dimension

Because the lower stories are literally directly called fiction. Quoting myself from the previous thread were it was accepted:

The term used for lower worlds is not just otome games, they are directly called fictional, many times and even exemplified with the analogy of Mangas. Its even shown that even the caretaker of the lower world where yumi is in himself cannot even as much as observe/perceive the higher worlds.

Also, if you are referring to author intent here by indicate, I am pretty sure the original RF standard revision thread already took care of that.

 

[Bernkastelll]

What stops them from thinking that it's just an analogy to indicate a higher dimension? And that's literally what's happening here

I'll send a manga scan because its easier to understand, it can't be an analogy because we literally see Yumiella playing and talking about when she used to play the game, and the game is the multiverse of Otome.

 

[SweetDao]

I'll send a manga scan because its easier to understand, it can't be an analogy because we literally see Yumiella playing and talking about when she used to play the game, and the game is the multiverse of Otome.

Tbf that's standard practice for Isekai stuff so that image alone doesn't help not discredit the cosmology itself

 

[Voidnether]

Because it's not an analogy, the multiverse of Otome is literally a game

No, in the earlier thread Digital_Franz has explained about this. The analogy here is basically the same as TEIS, I couldn't see why it would be so different.

From what I've read, it's 99% the same as TEIS, just so you get a TLDR;
Cid gets reincarnated after he dies in Japan (like Yumiella), and then Cid basically starts saying how his world is fiction, et cetera (Literally the main plot) just for the same entity (Shadow Garden) literally being able to exist on Japan after Season 2 Episode 12.

Thread 'Shadow: Low Complex Multiversal Upgrade'

Mar 10, 2023

Shadow claims that the entire universe is a dream and that he is the only real thing.
Shadow must be 5-D to see the universe as fiction.

• FanSyst
• cid kagenou the eminence in shadow
• Replies: 24
• Forum: Fun and Games

Because the lower stories are literally directly called fiction. Quoting myself from the previous thread were it was accepted:

Also, if you are referring to author intent here by indicate, I am pretty sure the original RF standard revision thread already took care of that.

I still don't see it tbh (the links are broken, but okay). From the explanations, it's pretty much still an analogy to me. Is there like a clear feat that shows this is not just for like the story (Like, the plot doesn't revolve around this, etc)? Like I said earlier, I don't follow the verse itself but I gotta say with all the feats brought up.. It's too similar to TEIS.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

No, in the earlier thread Digital_Franz has explained about this. The analogy here is basically the same as TEIS, I couldn't see why it would be so different.

From what I've read, it's 99% the same as TEIS, just so you get a TLDR;
Cid gets reincarnated after he dies in Japan (like Yumiella), and then Cid basically starts saying how his world is fiction, et cetera (Literally the main plot) just for the same entity (Shadow Garden) literally being able to exist on Japan after Season 2 Episode 12.

Thread 'Shadow: Low Complex Multiversal Upgrade'

Mar 10, 2023

Shadow claims that the entire universe is a dream and that he is the only real thing.
Shadow must be 5-D to see the universe as fiction.

• FanSyst
• cid kagenou the eminence in shadow
• Replies: 24
• Forum: Fun and Games

TEIS analogy just seems like Shadow using flowery language as he always does, part of his personality as an edgy character. Yumilia;s case is more or less literally her being reincarnated in a world that she previously played as a game. That is far more literal than what Cid said in the thread you linked.

I still don't see it tbh (the links are broken, but okay). From the explanations, it's pretty much still an analogy to me. Is there like a clear feat that shows this is not just for like the story (Like, the plot doesn't revolve around this, etc)? Like I said earlier, I don't follow the verse itself but I gotta say with all the feats brought up.. It's too similar to TEIS.

I suppose quoting the scan here would be better:

“Could it be that I only think that the worlds I govern are part of their own tree? What if they’re actually a clump of branches on a much bigger tree? I can’t deny the possibility that this world might be something like a dollhouse created by a being from a much larger world. Picture it! Those beings could be watching us from above, enjoying us as entertainment!”
“Oh...!” I was going to say that sounds stupid, but I almost forgot. This world is the world of an otome game. There are definitely people who are enjoying this world as entertainment. I was one of those very people. “What’s wrong?” the god of evil asked, curious about the sound I’d made. “Oh, it’s nothing. Please continue.” “Well, from the perspective of those in that larger world, I’m nothing but a trivial being frolicking around in their tiny dollhouse. I’m just a clown to them!” Man, if I tell him that this is the world of an otome game, he might just explode from anger. Also, from the way he’s talking, it sounds like the world I’m originally from might be in danger. After gathering enough powerful pawns, the god of evil will probably end up invading Japan. After being attacked by an otome game, Japan will... Wait. Maybe it’s not actually that dangerous of a situation? Upon thinking about it, it just didn’t sound that dire. If you said a god from cyberspace was going to attack, that sounded more urgent. If you instead said it was a god from an otome game, it instantly sounded immensely unthreatening. Well, god of evil, you’re acting pretty high and mighty, but I hate to break it to you: this is just the world of a dating simulation, buddy. Either way, while this might’ve been the world of a fictional story, the people here were definitely alive, and they made their own choices. That seemed like enough of a qualification for somewhere to be considered a proper world. On top of that, there was no guarantee that Japan was the “original” world either. My first life could’ve been set in the world of a manga where sorcerers were secretly battling spirits behind the scenes in modern Japan, and my previous self was simply unaware of all that. And then, the world full of even higher beings reading that manga might not be the original either... And so, it was an endless cycle. I pointed this out. “Even if you were to take over the hypothetical world watching over this world, that world might be fictional, just another, bigger dollhouse.” “Then I’ll just take over the world above that one.” “There might be another world above even that one.” “Even if they go on forever, I’ll just continue climbing up.” His ambition knew no bounds. Even if he were to endlessly continue invading successive worlds, how would he ever know for certain that he’d reached the root of the tree?
I can’t keep dealing with this. I wonder: can he even observe Japan, or even any part of the world where the Japan in which I lived was located?

 

[Voidnether]

TEIS analogy just seems like Shadow using flowery language as he always does, part of his personality as an edgy character. Yumilia;s case is more or less literally her being reincarnated in a world that she previously played as a game. That is far more literal than what Cid said in the thread you linked.

Because that's the entire plot, lol

I suppose quoting the scan here would be better:

One thing vague with this is that it doesn't imply Japan as an unreachable realm, but as long as the characters on there isn't able to affect Japan then it's probably fine for 1-A — Though, a key for this is redundant tbh

 

[Bernkastelll]

Though, a key for this is redundant tbh

I don't think a 1-A key is redundant though..............

 

[Voidnether]

I don't think a 1-A key is redundant though..............

It's non-combat applicable, you could see an example with Kamen Rider and why it's required. But this? Yumiella is just an average girl in Japan, that's literally her entire backstory and since Japan is basically unreachable (unlike TEIS). I still don't see why it's needed..

If there's a 1-A key, it wouldn't even be funny if there's a match with another character that's on the same level.. What is Yumiella even gonna do there?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

One thing vague with this is that it doesn't imply Japan as an unreachable realm, but as long as the characters on there isn't able to affect Japan then it's probably fine for 1-A —

They cant, nor can they even perceive the higher reality. Even a caretaker that manages all the countless universes of a singIe tree cannot perceive a higher tree/reality.

Though, a key for this is redundant tbh

Well, there isn't really much of a problem with it if the supporters of said verse want it so and its something scalable. And lets be real, we all love seeing 1-A on their favorite profile.

 

[SweetDao]

It's non-combat applicable, you could see an example with Kamen Rider and why it's required. But this? Yumiella is just an average girl in Japan, that's literally her entire backstory and since Japan is basically unreachable (unlike TEIS). I still don't see why it's needed..

I think it's fine, there are some profiles on the wiki that are just a regular human on some of their keys yet they are still indexed.

 

[Voidnether]

They cant, nor can they even perceive the higher reality. Even a caretaker that manages all the countless universes of a singIe tree cannot perceive a higher tree/reality.

Yeah, that's fine I suppose.

Well, there isn't really much of a problem with it if the supporters of said verse want it so and its something scalable. And lets be real, we all love seeing 1-A on their favorite profile.

Average 1-A Human
Do what you guys want (At this point, I'll just see how the OP responds as it seems like they know about this fiction), but still considering how mismatch it's gonna be if there's a versus matchup between her and any 1-A character (that would be so funny lol) if it gets accepted

I don't have anything left to do here as it's already answered and I don't want to clog up the thread, so yeah..

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

but still considering how mismatch it's gonna be if there's a versus matchup between her and any 1-A character (that would be so funny lol) if it gets accepted

They may have dug up a grave of future raids of spite threads, but eh, that's something to do with the supporters, not the watchers like us

Anyways, I will stop with this yap too since I got nothing else to say unless the op returns

 

[Lynieryz]

No one reduced her soul to a less real reality; this was never stated in the work. It is stated that her soul wandered on its own until Lemn found it and took control. Lemn mentioned that the soul is weak, and the fact that he is able to manipulate it supports this. He then placed it in the body of the original Yumiella, who was about to die.

So, I thought I’d give it a try, and put another soul inside you. It's a weak soul, drifting in the rift between dimensions. It’s likely to fail, but I was troubled enough to try it out.

「そこで物は試しと思ってだな、貴様の中に別な魂を入れてみた。次元の狭間を漂う弱々しい魂だ。まず駄目であろうが、それを試すほどには悩んでいたのだ」

 

[Velvian_can]

Lemn mentioned that the soul is weak, and the fact that he is able to manipulate it supports this. He then placed it in the body of the original Yumiella, who was about to die.

Lemn wasn't the one talking in the dialogue, Kugelschreiber was the one explaining to Yumiella 2 that he merely reincarnated the already reduced soul of the Yumiella which was already at the verge of diminishment which proves that caretakers of trees are capable of manipulating the souls of habitants of that tree

She'd never used this power of hers during her childhood or while she was a student, fearing that she would only cause others to be even more terrified of her than they already were. Though she now understood that there was nothing to fear when the world had already cast her out so cruelly, at the time, she was truly terrified of doing anything that would inspire others to hurt her more.

And so, Yumiella began walking the path towards becoming the hidden boss. It was right after this turning point that she first met the figureless voice.

"Hey," Yumiella abruptly called out to the voice, who was still rambling on and spewing thoughts of resentment.

"...which is why beings that look down on this world definitely exist."

"Are you listening to me?!"

"They observe as if it's entertainment and are delighted... Hm? What is it?" "Never mind..."

He'd been like this since they'd first met. The mysterious, invisible being didn't care to have anything resembling a real conversation. He just wanted to listen to his own voice.

She didn't even know his name. Yumiella wasn't inconvenienced by this, since there was no one else left to talk to anyway, but internally, she referred to him as the god of evil.

Yumiella thought back to several months ago. The first words he'd said to her were, "You're going to die if you're not careful." He'd warned her that at her current strength, she wouldn't be able to stand up against Alicia and the other heroes, and that she would be killed if she tried.

He'd then suggested a completely ridiculous method of level grinding. It was an incredibly severe method of training, so much so that it seemed impossible that any sort of mortal being had come up with it.

"What's wrong?" the voice asked, shifting into a more conciliatory tone as it snapped Yumiella back to the present. Perhaps he'd noticed her distracted irritation. "We're going to the neighboring world tomorrow, remember?"

"I'll go," Yumiella sighed. "You really don't think about what it's like to be human, do you? I can see how you're the one who would've come up with such a crazy level grinding method."

"You've got that wrong. The method I shared with you wasn't something I

thought of."

"What? Who else would?"

"It was you who pioneered that method. A you from a parallel world. The same you that you'll be fighting tomorrow."

Yumiella's next opponent was a different version of herself from a parallel world. She had known this for a while, but she hadn't thought that she was that ridiculous of a person.

I always assumed she just lived a depressing life until now like I did, but...

Yumiella became curious about this person, although she hadn't expressed any interest in her until now.

"What's my other self like? Is she different from me?"

"She's completely different, and since that's coming from someone who can't tell the difference between humans, you know she must be pretty different. She's also much stronger than you are."

"What? Why don't you just have her kill me, then? You just want more henchmen who have unlocked their level caps, right?"

"Well... It's not that simple. The you over there doesn't have any weaknesses. She doesn't hate the world like you do. She's difficult to control."

Yumiella couldn't imagine a version of herself that didn't hate the world. Even if she had the chance to redo her life, she would probably still dislike this world.

"Why is there a version of me like that?"

"Oh, that's easy. I did it."

"Explain...?"

"I've had my eye on you for a long, long time. Your abilities are some of the most incredible out of all the humans I've ever observed. I've wanted you as a pawn very badly. But you always die. No matter how much I interfere, that never changes."

Yumiella recalled her battle with Alicia and the others. The battle to the death against those four had been won by a razor-thin margin. If she hadn't used that crazy leveling method, she would definitely have died.

They had just been that strong, and they'd had that many advantages against Yumiella.

She returned her attention to the voice.

"So I thought I might as well try something else,” he continued. "I put a different soul into a version of you. It was a weak soul that was skirting the border between dimensions. Doing that goes against every law of the
universe, but I was feeling so lost that I tried it anyway.”

 

[Lynieryz]

the already reduced soul of the Yumiella which was already at the verge of diminishment

Yeah, no. There is nothing about the soul being reduced, it is weak in itself. The soul that is about to disappear is the soul of Otome Game Yumiella, you are confusing the two souls. The weak soul he found is the soul of the real world Yumiella.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Yeah, no. There is nothing about the soul being reduced, it is weak in itself. The soul that is about to disappear is the soul of Otome Game Yumiella, you are confusing the two souls. The weak soul he found is the soul of the real world Yumiella.

When making a claim like this, do not forget to add the scans, ones that actuaIIy negate the opponent's argument rather then saying no, you are wrong and I am right.

And, on the note of that topic, as far as I remember, it was KugeI manipuIating Yumi's.

• First off, the current Yumi was the only one that was reincarnated from Japan, with the paraIIeI YumiIias not being from Japan at all.
• The current Yumi, our Yumi, was the one whose Soul was in the border between Dimensions when the Kugel found it. He then put it inside our current Yumi's body and thus the narrative from Yumi's pov began. This indicates that japan Yumi;s souI was aIready quaIitativeIy reduced when KugeI found it and put it inside the Yumi of his own world, which Japan yumi originally perceived as fiction before she came to be inside the border between dimensions inside the otome game.
• Note that this supposed person that was taIking to Yumi inside her mind was, during that conversation, treated as a mysterious individuaI. This is despite the fact that Iemn aIready introduced himseIf in chapter 1, whereas this conversation was happening in chapter 3.

So overall, your argument that it was Iemn who did it is inconsistent.

 

[Lynieryz]

When making a claim like this, do not forget to add the scans, ones that actuaIIy negate the opponent's argument rather then saying no, you are wrong and I am right.

And, on the note of that topic, as far as I remember, it was KugeI manipuIating Yumi's.

• First off, the current Yumi was the only one that was reincarnated from Japan, with the paraIIeI YumiIias not being from Japan at all.
• The current Yumi, our Yumi, was the one whose Soul was in the border between Dimensions when the Kugel found it. He then put it inside our current Yumi's body and thus the narrative from Yumi's pov began. This indicates that japan Yumi;s souI was aIready quaIitativeIy reduced when KugeI found it and put it inside the Yumi of his own world, which Japan yumi originally perceived as fiction before she came to be inside the border between dimensions inside the otome game.
• Note that this supposed person that was taIking to Yumi inside her mind was, during that conversation, treated as a mysterious individuaI. This is despite the fact that Iemn aIready introduced himseIf in chapter 1, whereas this conversation was happening in chapter 3.

So overall, your argument that it was Iemn who did it is inconsistent.

This is a straw man with literal zero relation to my second comment.
1° I confused Lemn and Evil God's names due to Lemn also being referred to as "Evil God" in the land of twilight.
2° The reduction in the soul that you speak of is non-existent and has never happened throughout the work.
3° The weak soul is the soul that was sailing through space time [Real Yumiella], everything I had mentioned is in the quote I posted.

 

[Velvian_can]

This is a straw man with literal zero relation to my second comment.
1° I confused Lemn and Evil God's names due to Lemn also being referred to as "Evil God" in the land of twilight.
2° The reduction in the soul that you speak of is non-existent and has never happened throughout the work.
3° The weak soul is the soul that was sailing through space time [Real Yumiella], everything I had mentioned is in the quote I posted.

1st of all, it wasn't a strawman at all, it was clarifying which soul it was since you're confusing the Japan Yumiella to the otome-game Yumiella since Kugelschreiber already stated that his intention is stop Yumiella from dying to the plot which by chance lucky because the soul of Japan Yumiella was already at the edge of dimensional barrier as it was already reduced before by the tree carateker of Japan Yumiella. It was shown that caratekers have the authority/power to interact/manipulate/handle the souls of their habitants which I already said before but you ignored it, and btw, Lemn was never called "God of evil" in volume 6
Furthermore, the fact that you said the reduction of Japan Yumiella is non-existent throughout the work just shows that you completely ignored the logical deduction that was presented in my OP

 

[Lynieryz]

it was clarifying which soul it was since you're confusing the Japan Yumiella to the otome-game Yumiella since Kugelschreiber already stated that his intention is stop Yumiella from dying to the plot which by chance lucky because the soul of Japan Yumiella was already at the edge of dimensional barrier as it was already reduced before by the tree carateker of Japan Yumiella.

You didn't clarify anything, I've been indicating from the beginning when I'm talking about the real Yumiella or not, your comment was literally a useless strawman.

because the soul of Japan Yumiella was already at the edge of dimensional barrier as it was already reduced before by the tree carateker of Japan Yumiella.

This is literally fanfic:
1° This never happened in the story, you literally made it up.
2° The real world does not have a Caretaker, this is only for the cyberworlds/treeworlds.

just shows that you completely ignored the logical deduction that was presented in my OP

Yes, I won't take seriously something that doesn't exist in the story and that depends on your headcanon.

Lemn was never called "God of evil" in volume 6

And? I haven't read just volume 6, the current volume refers to Lemn as "Evil God."

 

[Velvian_can]

You didn't clarify anything, I've been indicating from the beginning when I'm talking about the real Yumiella or not, your comment was literally a useless strawman.

How was that a misinterpretation, you barely even explain you words. If anything else, you're the one misinterpretating my arguments but sure, I'll let that one slide

This is literally fanfic:
1° This never happened in the story, you literally made it up.
2° The real world does not have a Caretaker, this is only for the cyberworlds/treeworlds.

"Fanfic", "Headcanons" that's all you got when all the evidence is already leaning towards proving the premise through a logical deduction?

second, I already gave the entire reasoning and even scans to prove that every otherworld/Tree have a carateker and yes, Japan Yumiella's world is one of the Otherworlds/Tree as it was explicitly stated by Lemn

Since every caretaker holds power/authority over their respective Tree/otherworld where it's highlighted that Otherworlds are different to parallel worlds,and every tree has its own caretaker

And? I haven't read just volume 6, the current volume refers to Lemn as "Evil God.

No, there wasn't any mention in the current volume aka volume 6

 

[Lynieryz]

second, I already gave the entire reasoning and even scans to prove that every otherworld/Tree have a carateker and yes, Japan Yumiella's world is one of the Otherworlds/Tree as it was explicitly stated by Lemn

Yeah, no. The whole point of the real world is that it's beyond the trees. You considering the real world as one of the trees completely destroys this thread because any R>F would be killed by the trees being on the same existential level.

How was that a misinterpretation, you barely even explain you words. If anything else, you're the one misinterpretating my arguments but sure, I'll let that one slide

What are you talking about? Are you reading what I'm writing?

You didn't clarify anything, I've been indicating from the beginning when I'm talking about the real Yumiella or not, your comment was literally a useless strawman.

No, there wasn't any mention in the current volume aka volume 6

I confused volume with chapters, in the Twilight Land chapter the Hero King refers to Lemn as "Evil God".

"Fanfic", "Headcanons" that's all you got when all the evidence is already leaning towards proving the premise through a logical deduction?

It's a literal headcanon, show me where in the story it is stated that the real world, a world beyond the tree worlds, has a Caretaker?

 

[Lynieryz]

I just reworked the OP into something more organized and coherent. I'll message some mods to check the thread.

 

[Velvian_can]

I'll just refute this one and for all since I will be busy for later.

Yeah, no. The whole point of the real world is that it's beyond the trees. You considering the real world as one of the trees completely destroys this thread because any R>F would be killed by the trees being on the same existential level.

Where was it stated that Yumiella's world/branch of tree is beyond the tree worlds? You call my logical deduction a headcanon but your interpretation is worse, nothing points to that and if that would've been the case then it would've been 1-A+ since the process of r>f by Yumiella's analogy is ad infinitum and since you're ignorant of the cosmology page of the verse, let me quote it for you.

"I have memories of my past life," I began, speaking more confidently than I had expected. "I have memories of being born into a different world, living there, dying there...and then being reborn as Yumiella."

"Reborn... What do you mean by 'a different world'? Is it a parallel world, like Lemn was talking about?"

"Not a parallel world. It's more like an otherworld. Lemn likened parallel worlds to different branches on a tree, so if we stick to that metaphor, an otherworld would be an entirely different tree with its own roots. The laws of the world, the shape of the continents, even the history of the human race are completely different. The world I lived in didn't even have magic."

"You didn't have magic? That's... I can't even imagine what that must be like."

I also did highlight this in my OP but again, YOU COMPLETELY IGNORED IT.

It's a literal headcanon, show me where in the story it is stated that the real world, a world beyond the tree worlds, has a Caretaker?

Japan/Real world/ Original Yumiella's Branch of Tree is still part of the forest analogy as established in the last scan which you will ignore again I assume to press your inconsistent interpretation

It's quite simple, the cosmology was accepted as a 1-A because of the real Yumiella's soul.

The cosmology wasn't accepted for that reason, the debate in @Shiraito983 thread regarding Yumiella's soul was a different talk which both sides already have agreed (@Astral_Trinity439 and @Digital_Franz) to the premise that Yumiella's soul would get 1-A based on the evidences presented.

1° The real Yumiella's soul was manipulated by the Evil God, this goes directly against the entire argument in favor of 1-A.(This is an anti-feat because of a fictional being [Evil God] in relation to the real Yumiella's soul being able to interact with this soul)

For how many times I have already refuted this, you're just red herring my reasoning if that's the case

¹This was stated in relation to the tree worlds and the trees themselves. The upgrade itself recognizes and relies on the real world transcending the trees.

Tree worlds are called branches/parallel worlds so you don't misunderstand and I'll say this again, No, the real world/Japan Yumiella's Tree branch does not transcend the trees since it's a part of it as well.

²For the real world to have a Caretaker, it would have to be on the same existential level as trees, as this is a characteristic exclusively attributed to trees.

Which they do and you just proved that by the scans you quoted.

³At no point was it stated in the story that the real world has a Caretaker and that the real Yumiella's soul was reduced to a lesser fictional level.

You literally proved that Otherworlds/Trees have their own overseer/Caretaker which we use to logically deduct he fact that Yumiella's soul was reduced

 

[GarrixianXD]

Yumiella doesn't even scale to 1-A. Where and what is your debunking points against the cosmology itself? I don't see it.

 

[Velvian_can]

Yumiella doesn't even scale to 1-A. Where and what is your debunking points against the cosmology itself? I don't see it.

The thread for her 1-A key is still yet to be accepted, we're just waiting but it seemed like someone wanted to really debunk it, so instead of taking it in my CRT, they created another one just to prove a point which they're failing btw

 

[Lynieryz]

Where was it stated that Yumiella's world/branch of tree is beyond the tree worlds? You call my logical deduction a headcanon but your interpretation is worse, nothing points to that and if that would've been the case then it would've been 1-A+ since the process of r>f by Yumiella's analogy is ad infinitum and since you're ignorant of the cosmology page of the verse, let me quote it for you.

I also did highlight this in my OP but again, YOU COMPLETELY IGNORED IT.

Yeah, you're objectively wrong.

¹The real world was accepted as a world that transcends the trees themselves.

Higher World​

higher world was a world bigger than the tree. £Higher being theorize that the tree and the forest might be just a part of even higher being world, and the whole forrest (cluster of multiverse) are just a dollhouse for higher being and they are treated as a mare entertaiment. Which yumiella confirm as this world is just a mare otome game. this shows a clear R>F trancendance or Qualitative superiority over the forrest. but this is not the end yet. yumiella think that their world is also might just be a fictional story and the japan was no guarantee to be real as well it might be another manga for entertainment. and so on for infinite cycle. this state there is infinite cycle of R>F transcendace.

Villainess Level 99 Cosmology Page

This page is solely for Villainess Level 99: I May Be the Hidden Boss but I'm Not the Demon Lord Cosmology page explanation The Content revision thread was accepted here. Lets start without any further delay There are an infinite number of parallel worlds. “But I need to explain things in order...

vsbattles.fandom.com

²If that were the case this would be against 1-A not for it. The real world being just another tree would destroy 1-A because trees are all on the same level and the Evil God as a Caretaker of a tree would be above the regular inhabitants of the real world and comparable to the real world Caretaker.[Which is supported by him being able to manipulate a real world soul, which makes 1-A even less plausible]

The cosmology wasn't accepted for that reason, the debate in @Shiraito983 thread regarding Yumiella's soul was a different talk which both sides already have agreed (@Astral_Trinity439 and @Digital_Franz) to the premise that Yumiella's soul would get 1-A based on the evidences presented.

Yes it was, read the CRT that I linked in the OP.

For how many times I have already refuted this, you're just red herring my reasoning if that's the case

What are you talking about? Your rebuttal is what I answered above, do you understand how a discussion works?

Tree worlds are called branches/parallel worlds so you don't misunderstand and I'll say this again, No, the real world/Japan Yumiella's Tree branch does not transcend the trees since it's a part of it as well.

Your personal belief is irrelevant, this is not what has been accepted on the wiki and it is not how the R>F standard works.

Which they do and you just proved that by the scans you quoted.
You literally proved that Otherworlds/Trees have their own overseer/Caretaker which we use to logically deduct he fact that Yumiella's soul was reduced

This is not what was accepted, if the real world does not transcend the trees then it is not R>F.

Yumiella doesn't even scale to 1-A. Where and what is your debunking points against the cosmology itself? I don't see it.

It's about both, the CRT that 1-A was accepted in is in the OP and it completely revolved around Yumiella's soul.

 

[GarrixianXD]

It's about both, the CRT that 1-A was accepted in is in the OP and it completely revolved around Yumiella's soul.

R>F was justified in this section of the explanation page. You didn't address the quote that explicitly mentioned fictional worlds and stories.

 

[Lynieryz]

R>F was justified in this section of the explanation page. You didn't address the quote that explicitly mentioned fictional worlds and stories.

Yes, I did. Everything I said revolves around that, Yumiella's soul is from this reality that this section talks about.

These are the disqualifiers:

However, there are also factors that can speak against Reality-Fiction Transcendence, even if all of the above is given. Those include:

• The realities are portrayed like parallel universes or otherwise as having just a finite difference in scale or having a similar nature.
• The characters from both realities are generally being portrayed as comparable in power
• The author character completely live in the fictional medium themselves. For example the author character might have a book that contains the world, but the author themselves are also a character in it and don't exist outside it any more than other characters of that world.
• The fictional characters being able to attack the real ones without being shown to somehow have transcended their fictional world or having special abilities that allow it by being something rooted in a higher reality. Such instances often have to be analyzed on a case-by-case basis to judge how they are best rated. For more detailed information, see here.

• The realities are portrayed like parallel universes or otherwise as having just a finite difference in scale or having a similar nature.

This is only specifically the case with Velvian believing that the real world is on the same existential level as the trees.

• The characters from both realities are generally being portrayed as comparable in power

Evil God is literally stronger than the real Yumiella's soul and she is a real world being.

• The author character completely live in the fictional medium themselves. For example the author character might have a book that contains the world, but the author themselves are also a character in it and don't exist outside it any more than other characters of that world.

Real Yumiella's soul spends 99.9% of the story in the "supposed" fictional world but I think that doesn't count for this point.

• The fictional characters being able to attack the real ones without being shown to somehow have transcended their fictional world or having special abilities that allow it by being something rooted in a higher reality. Such instances often have to be analyzed on a case-by-case basis to judge how they are best rated. For more detailed information, see here.

Evil God literally manipulated and controlled the real Yumiella's soul.

 

[GarrixianXD]

That would only apply to Yumiella, but it won't downgrade the entire cosmology.

 

[Lynieryz]

That would only apply to Yumiella, but it won't downgrade the entire cosmology.

Yeah, no. That destroys the R>F of the cosmology. Yumiella's soul is from the transcendent world, an anti-feat on that soul is an anti-feat for the R>F cosmology.

 

[Velvian_can]

¹The real world was accepted as a world that transcends the trees themselves.

Ahem, can you atleast try to be reasonable for once and find that there are indirect relations which proves that the "Real world" or Yumiella's previous world is still part of the Trees? We don't really need to appeal to what is accepted. We need to understand what's the content of the cosmology page. I will quote it for you to see that Otherworlds refers to Trees

“Hmm, how do I put this into words...?” the god of evil pondered. “I hold all the parallel worlds branching off a single tree in the palm of my hand. This world is one branch of that tree. Just as there isn’t only one branch, there isn’t only one tree. I want to conquer the rest of the forest.”
Other trees would mean worlds that didn’t have the same laws, that didn’t share similarities with this one—to put it differently, otherworlds. Was the god unsatisfied with the worlds he already oversaw, such that he felt the need to invade otherworlds as well? “By that, do you mean otherworlds?” I asked. “Hm, ‘otherworld’... An excellent term, succinct and perfect. You understand my meaning, don’t you?” “Those otherworlds must have beings that oversee them as well.”
“Of course, and that’s where you come in: my champion to go up against those beings,” he said eagerly. “Those otherworlds aren’t my true objective either.” It appeared that his ambition went further. “One day, I had a thought: is this world truly a tree?”

"I have memories of my past life," I began, speaking more confidently than I had expected. "I have memories of being born into a different world, living there, dying there...and then being reborn as Yumiella."

"Reborn... What do you mean by 'a different world'? Is it a parallel world, like Lemn was talking about?"

"Not a parallel world. It's more like an otherworld. Lemn likened parallel worlds to different branches on a tree, so if we stick to that metaphor, an otherworld would be an entirely different tree with its own roots. The laws of the world, the shape of the continents, even the history of the human race are completely different. The world I lived in didn't even have magic."

"You didn't have magic? That's... I can't even imagine what that must be like."

This emphazies that Yumiella originates from an otherworld or Higher Tree which disproves your interpretation that the Higher world transcend the trees as it is still a part of the "Forest"

For the interpretation that Kugelschreiber was referring to a higher world, he was just referring to the Tree Branch or "Higher World" as the cosmology page refers only transcends their own Tree not the entire Forest.

Here's a syllogism if you still don't understand.
Premise 1: Otherworlds are still Trees which is proven in scan 1
Premise 2: Lemn states that Yumiella is from an Otherworld which is transcends their own, confirmed by Kugelschreiber
Conclusion: Yumiella's soul originates from a Higher Tree/Otherworld which transcends and views their own as fiction.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

As weird as it is for a real soul to weaken and downgrade into a lower reality, as long as it just happened through some unexplained method and hand nothing to do with the lower reality itself, then it's not an antifeat.

 

[Lynieryz]

As weird as it is for a real soul to weaken and downgrade into a lower reality, as long as it just happened through some unexplained method and hand nothing to do with the lower reality itself, then it's not an antifeat.

That's the thing, the weakening never happened. It was never about it being weird, it was about it being something that was never stated or shown in the work.

Ahem, can you atleast try to be reasonable for once and find that there are indirect relations which proves that the "Real world" or Yumiella's previous world is still part of the Trees? We don't really need to appeal to what is accepted. We need to understand what's the content of the cosmology page. I will quote it for you to see that Otherworlds refers to Trees



This emphazies that Yumiella originates from an otherworld or Higher Tree which disproves your interpretation that the Higher world transcend the trees as it is still a part of the "Forest"

For the interpretation that Kugelschreiber was referring to a higher world, he was just referring to the Tree Branch or "Higher World" as the cosmology page refers only transcends their own Tree not the entire Forest.

Here's a syllogism if you still don't understand.
Premise 1: Otherworlds are still Trees which is proven in scan 1
Premise 2: Lemn states that Yumiella is from an Otherworld which is transcends their own, confirmed by Kugelschreiber
Conclusion: Yumiella's soul originates from a Higher Tree/Otherworld which transcends and views their own as fiction.

You should respond to my entire comment, not a specific part... This is not what was accepted in the CRTs and if this interpretation is valid, R>F dies completely.

²If that were the case this would be against 1-A not for it. The real world being just another tree would destroy 1-A because trees are all on the same level and the Evil God as a Caretaker of a tree would be above the regular inhabitants of the real world and comparable to the real world Caretaker.[Which is supported by him being able to manipulate a real world soul, which makes 1-A even less plausible]

This is only specifically the case with Velvian believing that the real world is on the same existential level as the trees.

 

[Velvian_can]

Sorry for being inactive recently (Had to do irl work)

You should respond to my entire comment, not a specific part... This is not what was accepted in the CRTs and if this interpretation is valid, R>F dies completely.

Alright then, we appeal to what's accepted, so what is accepted exactly?

“Could it be that I only think that the worlds I govern are part of their own tree? What if they’re actually a clump of branches on a much bigger tree?

There wasnt a single Multiverse but a lot of them, we dont know the exact amount but it state as whole forest

Yea, the "higher world" transcends the clumps of of branches on a much bigger tree and what are these "Branches " supposedly in AR99 Cosmology you might ask? They're Parallel worlds, not Otherworlds which creates a flaw on your argument and like I said, These Otherworlds are TREES itself and not Branches of trees

“Like I said earlier, the shackles limiting levels are a law that only operates inside each individual world. Imagine a tree. Of the countless branches spread out across the tree, one is this world. There’s one of each of you in each of the branches.”
“So one branch is a single world?” I asked. “Exactly. While you’re in that one world, the level limits will continue to operate. In order to be freed from those shackles, you, a resident of the branch, have to become a resident of the tree.” From the branch to the tree...

Now, does that clarify your understanding of the cosmology or should I go down from the entirety of the cosmology?

If that were the case this would be against 1-A not for it. The real world being just another tree would destroy 1-A because trees are all on the same level and the Evil God as a Caretaker of a tree would be above the regular inhabitants of the real world and comparable to the real world Caretaker.[Which is supported by him being able to manipulate a real world soul, which makes 1-A even less plausible]

You quite literally quoted the process of Otherworlds/Trees having infinite cycle of R>F transcendence and yes, the "Higher world" is part of these Otherworlds since it's where Yumiella originally from.

Higher World

higher world was a world bigger than the tree. £Higher being theorize that the tree and the forest might be just a part of even higher being world, and the whole forrest (cluster of multiverse) are just a dollhouse for higher being and they are treated as a mare entertaiment. Which yumiella confirm as this world is just a mare otome game. this shows a clear R>F trancendance or Qualitative superiority over the forrest. but this is not the end yet. yumiella think that their world is also might just be a fictional story and the japan was no guarantee to be real as well it might be another manga for entertainment. and so on for infinite cycle. this state there is infinite cycle of R>F transcendace.

That's the thing, the weakening never happened. It was never about it being weird, it was about it being something that was never stated or shown in the work.

It's not shown directly in the narrative, but with what we know right now, since Kugelschreiber cannot do anything to the "higher world" aka The higher Otherworld/Tree where Yumiella originated from. The fact that he still theorized on whether they exist or not exist (Before he confirmed that it exists through the soul of Yumiella) favors the argument more and more, so when you argue that he manipulated the soul of "Real Yumiella" it would just be flawed since he can't anything to it if it wasn't reduced at all