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The 3-A Triforce
- Thread starter Konaguna
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I'm still under the impression that every creative person in the world is apart of a conspiracy to spite Cal with stuff like this.Wokistan said:
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I'm still under the impression that every creative person in the world is apart of a conspiracy to spite Cal with stuff like this.
^^^
^^^
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Cal: I just want Link to beat Cloud
Nintendo: You can now fight Cloud with Link in Sm4sh! And Cloud is the 2nd best character in the game while Link is D tier!
Nintendo: You can now fight Cloud with Link in Sm4sh! And Cloud is the 2nd best character in the game while Link is D tier!
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"Is there even a single statement that amounts to "the Triforce warped the entire universe" without just using the nebulous terms "Light World" or "Dark World"? This is like the bare minimum I'm asking for, here."Konaguna said:
This is like all I'm asking for, man.
I don't need anything else that uses Light World/Dark World/Sacred Realm/whatever.
Just a single statement saying that the Triforce actually warped an entire universe before we upgrade it to universe level.
I still haven't seen such a thing posted.
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@Everyone, okay, this has been derailed long enough. Either get back to the topic, or I may need to close the thread.
Dust_Collector
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Game Freak Employees: Sir, the writers want to know when we're adding that there are infinite timelines in the Pokémon series so that we can expand the lore.Darkanine said:
Head of the Game Freak while looking a picture of Cal: No...not anytime soon...
Wokistan
Bioluminescent African American Working At The CIA
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
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Being a separate timeline isn't inherently a universal feat, though. He downgraded my character for the same reaso
No but really, you need some sort of indication that it's universal in size as opposed to just what we already give them 4-B for.
No but really, you need some sort of indication that it's universal in size as opposed to just what we already give them 4-B for.
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This isn't accurate.Konaguna said:
"Light World" has shown like four different meanings in this thread alone.
"all the other universal translations".
There are two that I'm actually aware of. One just says the Triforce is a "universal power" (again, not enough), while the other says it provides the foundation for space and time. The latter is impressive, but not a universal feat, as we see a world without its Triforce collapse over actual generations and still not even be close to complete destruction.
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Someone brought up a good point though. Does timeframe matter when we're talking about temporal destruction?
This is an actual question. I kinda gave up on this so I'm neutral.
This is an actual question. I kinda gave up on this so I'm neutral.
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If we don't know the exact nature of the destruction, it happens over an untold but extremely high number of years, and it's done by knocking out the thing that acts as a foundation for the world as opposed to raw power, then yeah, it'd be very important.
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- Thread starter
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"Light World" has shown like four different meanings in this thread alone."
Zelda being inconsistent is nothing new, but by now there are tons of things that support the universal TF
Pretty sure warping an entire timeline is a 3-A feat, the Light World is one of the timelines that continues the actual events of the story. DW is it's own separate timeline supported by the statement from the manual and equals the light world.
Why is it even being questioned whether it is an actual universe? this isn't GoW where most things refer specifically to planets, this is meant in a greater sense, lesser villains already have stellar power without any help from the relic at all.
Why is it that it requires an actual statement, otherwise it is considered the size that we can observe?
Zelda being inconsistent is nothing new, but by now there are tons of things that support the universal TF
Pretty sure warping an entire timeline is a 3-A feat, the Light World is one of the timelines that continues the actual events of the story. DW is it's own separate timeline supported by the statement from the manual and equals the light world.
Why is it even being questioned whether it is an actual universe? this isn't GoW where most things refer specifically to planets, this is meant in a greater sense, lesser villains already have stellar power without any help from the relic at all.
Why is it that it requires an actual statement, otherwise it is considered the size that we can observe?
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"but by now there are tons of things that support the universal TF"
Posting a single one of them would probably help end this thread, then.
Posting a single one of them would probably help end this thread, then.
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Jesus Christ this was so savage a lion broke into my house through the window.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
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@Konaguna, TriforcePower1, etc. -- Many of those quotes you provided have been buried, so kindly reshow them so that Azathoth may offer us a more insightful rebuttal. And remember; to get an upgrade passed, it isn't about being logical or drawing a sensible conclusion, because 1.) what's sensible to you isn't sensible to some other people, and 2.) these other people are operating on the basis of not likelihood or reasonable inferrence so much as "Is there even a possibility, however miniscule or unlikely, this isn't the case?" And if the answer is "Well, maybe," they shoot down the proposal. You have to operate on a case that is indisputably nothing but what you want, not a case that reasonable deduction gets to what you want.
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The hell happened here while I was asleep...?
Anyway, trying to answer to most questions that came up.
1. "Lorule took his time to get destroyed." That was slightly implied to be thanks to Hyrule's TF. Remember the big crack on Lorule's Sacred Realm? Guess why did that thing exist. No, "Yuga created it" is false.
2. The feat isn't destroying the pillar to make the house crumble, this is knowing how strong is the pillar so that you know how strong you can hit with it. Kind of. That the metaphor is far from perfect, but still.
3. Where did Light World show several meanings? The scan stating it's a country it's from HE, and as much as I disagree with this decision, that's not canon.
I'll continue later.
Anyway, trying to answer to most questions that came up.
1. "Lorule took his time to get destroyed." That was slightly implied to be thanks to Hyrule's TF. Remember the big crack on Lorule's Sacred Realm? Guess why did that thing exist. No, "Yuga created it" is false.
2. The feat isn't destroying the pillar to make the house crumble, this is knowing how strong is the pillar so that you know how strong you can hit with it. Kind of. That the metaphor is far from perfect, but still.
3. Where did Light World show several meanings? The scan stating it's a country it's from HE, and as much as I disagree with this decision, that's not canon.
I'll continue later.
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1. "That was slightly implied to be thanks to Hyrule's TF."
Where? Is there a statement of this or dialogue that suggests this? I'm genuinely asking, because I haven't seen ALBW's full dialogue in a while.
2. "The feat isn't destroying the pillar to make the house crumble, this is knowing how strong is the pillar so that you know how strong you can hit with it. Kind of."
I don't quite understand what you're trying to say with this. Are you saying that because something supports/acts as the foundation for something, it should be able to hit with enough force to destroy said thing? Because that definitely isn't true, but I might be misreading.
3. "Where did Light World show several meanings? The scan stating it's a country it's from HE, and as much as I disagree with this decision, that's not canon."
...I'm not even going to get into the question of why people are posting apparently non-canon stuff here then, and will just point you to a random example from this thread.
Here the Dark World is referred to as a "kind of second Hyrule", as well as being parallel to the Light World, presenting the two as synonymous.
Here's a quote from earlier, that once again presents the Light World as at most being the planet.
"There are two overworlds in A Link to the Past. The Light World that Link calls home is a colorful and abundant place, with green forests, arid bluffs, and crystal-blue waters. In the Dark World that mirrors the Light World, the terrain is much the same, but everything is cast in a somber hue."
Yet there are multiple people claiming these places are described as universes, and these quotes on their own would show that certainly isn't the case 100% of the time.
Again, if we're going to say that the Triforce has universe level power, can we can a single direct feat/ statement without these nebulous terms? This is such a major upgrade, we can't just gloss over these things and automatically accept the highest possible interpretation in every instance.
Otherwise, I feel like this isn't actually going anywhere.
Where? Is there a statement of this or dialogue that suggests this? I'm genuinely asking, because I haven't seen ALBW's full dialogue in a while.
2. "The feat isn't destroying the pillar to make the house crumble, this is knowing how strong is the pillar so that you know how strong you can hit with it. Kind of."
I don't quite understand what you're trying to say with this. Are you saying that because something supports/acts as the foundation for something, it should be able to hit with enough force to destroy said thing? Because that definitely isn't true, but I might be misreading.
3. "Where did Light World show several meanings? The scan stating it's a country it's from HE, and as much as I disagree with this decision, that's not canon."
...I'm not even going to get into the question of why people are posting apparently non-canon stuff here then, and will just point you to a random example from this thread.
Here the Dark World is referred to as a "kind of second Hyrule", as well as being parallel to the Light World, presenting the two as synonymous.
Here's a quote from earlier, that once again presents the Light World as at most being the planet.
"There are two overworlds in A Link to the Past. The Light World that Link calls home is a colorful and abundant place, with green forests, arid bluffs, and crystal-blue waters. In the Dark World that mirrors the Light World, the terrain is much the same, but everything is cast in a somber hue."
Yet there are multiple people claiming these places are described as universes, and these quotes on their own would show that certainly isn't the case 100% of the time.
Again, if we're going to say that the Triforce has universe level power, can we can a single direct feat/ statement without these nebulous terms? This is such a major upgrade, we can't just gloss over these things and automatically accept the highest possible interpretation in every instance.
Otherwise, I feel like this isn't actually going anywhere.
Dust_Collector
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I agree with pretty much everything Azzy has said, the overall argument for 3-A Triforce is shaky without any explicit evidence or statements to back it up and is based on using the absolute highest interpretation for almost every statement.
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@Azathoth
That was the impression I got after replaying the game some time ago. I'm going to look for actual statements, but for now, consider that we have a stone slate that is directly connected with Hyrule's sacred Realm in the same place as where the TF was that emits golden Light and that gets destroyed once Lorule's TF comes backHigh 3-A TF for instantly recreating a relic of equal power ovo. There are some Japanese writings on it which I'm going to get translated.
Isn't supporting dimensions or something like that the reason Magolor and other characters are in their respective tiers, though?
Light World has a single meaning. It's Hyrule that can get different meanings depending on the context:
"The world created by the Three Golden Goddesses and protected by the goddess Hylia became known as Hyrule." -Hyrule Historia
"µÀÀµ▓îÒü«Õ£░ÒÇÇÒâÅÒéñÒâ®Òâ½Òü½ Ú╗äÚçæÒü«õ©ëÕñºþÑ×ÒÇüÚÖìÞç¿ÒüÖÒÇé Three great golden goddesses descended to the land of chaos that was Hyrule." -Deku Tree (by chaos he means the primordial chaos)
The meanings of Hyrule are:
Kingdom of Hyrule (most games)
Light World (ALTTP and TP)
ÒüùÒüïÒüùÒé¼ÒâÄÒâ│Òü»ÒüØÒéîÒüáÒüæÒüºµ║ÇÞÂ│ÒüøÒüÜÒÇü『ÕàëÒü«õ©ûþòî』ÒÇüÒâÅÒéñÒâ®Òâ½ÒéÆÒééµêæÒüîþë®Òü½ÒüùÒéêÒüåÒü¿õ╝üÒéôÒüºÒüäÒéïÒü«ÒüºÒüÖÒÇé
But Ganon isn't satisfied, so he proceeded to rule the "light world", Hyrule.
Light World and Sacred Realm (OoT and ALBW)
ÒüéÒü«ÞÇàÒü»ÒÇÇÚ鬵é¬Òü¬ÒÇÇÚ¡öÕèøÒéÆÒÇǵôìÒéèÒÇüÒâÅÒéñÒâ®Òâ½Òü«ÒÇÇÒü®ÒüôÒüïÒü½ÒüéÒéïÒÇÇÒü¿ÒüäÒüå ÞüûÕ£░ÒéÆÒÇǵÄóÒüùµ▒éÒéüÒüªÒüèÒüúÒüƒ… Òü¬Òü£Òü¬Òéë…ÒÇÇÞüûÕ£░Òü½Òü»ÒÇüþÑ×Òü«ÕèøÒéÆÒÇÇþºÿÒéüÒüƒÒÇÇõ╝ØÞ¬¼Òü«ÒÇÇÞüûõ©ëÞºÆÒÇüÒâêÒâ®ÒéñÒâòÒé®Òâ╝Òé╣ÒüîÒÇÇÒüéÒéïÒüïÒéëÒüÿÒéâ… He is using his evil magical powers in order to search for the Sacred Realm that is said to be somewhere in Hyrule… This is because… the legendary sacred triangles in which the power of the gods is hidden, the Triforce, is in the Sacred Realm…
"Transform into a living painting and slip between Hyrule and a dark, parallel dimension." -Zelda official web page (Lorule is such a good Mirror of Hyrule that it even copies the Sacred Realm...)
That was the impression I got after replaying the game some time ago. I'm going to look for actual statements, but for now, consider that we have a stone slate that is directly connected with Hyrule's sacred Realm in the same place as where the TF was that emits golden Light and that gets destroyed once Lorule's TF comes back
Isn't supporting dimensions or something like that the reason Magolor and other characters are in their respective tiers, though?
Light World has a single meaning. It's Hyrule that can get different meanings depending on the context:
"The world created by the Three Golden Goddesses and protected by the goddess Hylia became known as Hyrule." -Hyrule Historia
"µÀÀµ▓îÒü«Õ£░ÒÇÇÒâÅÒéñÒâ®Òâ½Òü½ Ú╗äÚçæÒü«õ©ëÕñºþÑ×ÒÇüÚÖìÞç¿ÒüÖÒÇé Three great golden goddesses descended to the land of chaos that was Hyrule." -Deku Tree (by chaos he means the primordial chaos)
The meanings of Hyrule are:
Kingdom of Hyrule (most games)
Light World (ALTTP and TP)
ÒüùÒüïÒüùÒé¼ÒâÄÒâ│Òü»ÒüØÒéîÒüáÒüæÒüºµ║ÇÞÂ│ÒüøÒüÜÒÇü『ÕàëÒü«õ©ûþòî』ÒÇüÒâÅÒéñÒâ®Òâ½ÒéÆÒééµêæÒüîþë®Òü½ÒüùÒéêÒüåÒü¿õ╝üÒéôÒüºÒüäÒéïÒü«ÒüºÒüÖÒÇé
But Ganon isn't satisfied, so he proceeded to rule the "light world", Hyrule.
Light World and Sacred Realm (OoT and ALBW)
ÒüéÒü«ÞÇàÒü»ÒÇÇÚ鬵é¬Òü¬ÒÇÇÚ¡öÕèøÒéÆÒÇǵôìÒéèÒÇüÒâÅÒéñÒâ®Òâ½Òü«ÒÇÇÒü®ÒüôÒüïÒü½ÒüéÒéïÒÇÇÒü¿ÒüäÒüå ÞüûÕ£░ÒéÆÒÇǵÄóÒüùµ▒éÒéüÒüªÒüèÒüúÒüƒ… Òü¬Òü£Òü¬Òéë…ÒÇÇÞüûÕ£░Òü½Òü»ÒÇüþÑ×Òü«ÕèøÒéÆÒÇÇþºÿÒéüÒüƒÒÇÇõ╝ØÞ¬¼Òü«ÒÇÇÞüûõ©ëÞºÆÒÇüÒâêÒâ®ÒéñÒâòÒé®Òâ╝Òé╣ÒüîÒÇÇÒüéÒéïÒüïÒéëÒüÿÒéâ… He is using his evil magical powers in order to search for the Sacred Realm that is said to be somewhere in Hyrule… This is because… the legendary sacred triangles in which the power of the gods is hidden, the Triforce, is in the Sacred Realm…
"Transform into a living painting and slip between Hyrule and a dark, parallel dimension." -Zelda official web page (Lorule is such a good Mirror of Hyrule that it even copies the Sacred Realm...)
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I really don't get, were supposed to provide statement of it being a universe when usually it's assumed that it is universe if it isn't specifically stated to be something different. But by the logic TF is tiered now, I could claim Tenjou Tenge or Urotsukidoji are set in a star sized dimension with a planet spinning around because that's all we can observe from the series, and anything beyond it is just speculation, hell by this very logic every setting that is shown in a country, city, lesser area, can be assumed to be a planet just spinning around a star because that's all we'll see.
And like I said before the Light World/Dark World are timelines. Warping a timeline is a blantant 3-A feat
And like I said before the Light World/Dark World are timelines. Warping a timeline is a blantant 3-A feat
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There's also the fact that Hilda and Yuga sensed a TF while the thing was sealed away or in Hyrule, and not in SR.
Anyway, even if this fails, I'm already creating the 4-A thread so... yeah.
Anyway, even if this fails, I'm already creating the 4-A thread so... yeah.
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Warping a timeline isn't automatically 3-A. Lol.
The Light World at most is the planet in most context
The Light World at most is the planet in most context
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No. Again, Light World = Dark World = 2 Astronomic units.Matthew Schroeder said:
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No they are not. 99% of the quotes treat the Light World as just Hyrule and at most the whole planet.
This whole upgrade is based on blatantly dishonest interpretation of statements.
This whole upgrade is based on blatantly dishonest interpretation of statements.
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Okay, now YOU are blatantly ignoring everything I've posted so far.
Hyrule isn't just the name of the kingdom. How are entire worlds, some of them even having stars (Termina) or even other parallel worlds, mirror of a single kingdom?
How can it mean planet when EVERYONE refers to the planet either as "world" (as if Zelda didn't use that term for basically everything) or "Earth"?
Light World = Dark World >= 2 astronomical units. This is it.
Hyrule isn't just the name of the kingdom. How are entire worlds, some of them even having stars (Termina) or even other parallel worlds, mirror of a single kingdom?
How can it mean planet when EVERYONE refers to the planet either as "world" (as if Zelda didn't use that term for basically everything) or "Earth"?
Light World = Dark World >= 2 astronomical units. This is it.
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I've realized this is just 20 comments away from reaching the other thread. Anyway, should I post the 4-A upgrade thread now or do I wait till this is finished?
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Fine, I already planned to do so.
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I don't think this is getting accepted given Azathoth's arguments and the serious lack of tangible proof beyond hyperbolic interpretations of vague statements.
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He's just doing his job as an Admin; accuracy on the profile ratings is important regardless who is or isn't familiar with the series. Additionally, it's also tiresome to revise profiles back and forth as well as repeated revision threads that meet in the same results.
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Assuming this is going to end bad.
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Anyway, I'm going to post new things soon.
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I don't think throwing doubt on dissenters' authority is going to help your case be more convincing, Konaguna. The staff have been rather patient considering you and yours have given them three Zelda threads to juggle on top of their normal work. Nor do I think throwing barbs like "dishonesty" and "hyperbole" against some very earnest members will help with any perceived elitism, Matt. These people have done their work to provide quotes and translations, so even if they're in the wrong, it's bad precedent to dismiss their endeavors or fail to address their evidence point-by-point.
Had something else to add, but I'll wait on TriforcePower1.
Had something else to add, but I'll wait on TriforcePower1.
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