The 2-B Super Smash Bros. CRT

[StrymULTRA]

Well... Unexpected from me to revise SSB of all things, but here we are.

Hello, I am here because after seeing a bit SSBU again, I realized that the profiles are massively downplayed, and thus I want to fix 'em.

Galeem is 2-B

I know what you guys may be thinking: "Strym, Galeem destroyed only a universe, how can he be Multiversal?"

Well, an explanation is the following:

Each series in Smash Bros is implied to be its own universe, as everytime Palutena and Viridi meet a DLC character, they'll say that they have no data on them because of that character being from another dimension. This happens in both Sm4sh and Ultimate, with the bolded titles being franchises that are already parts of the roster:

• 4 - Mewtwo (Pokémon)
• 4 - Lucas (EarthBound)
• 4 - Roy (Fire Emblem)
• 4 - Ryu (Street Fighter)
• 4 - Cloud (Final Fantasy)
• 4 - Corrin (Fire Emblem)
• 4 - Bayonetta (Bayonetta)
• Ultimate - Joker (Persona)
• Ultimate - Hero (Dragon Quest)
• Ultimate - Banjo & Kazooie (Banjo & Kazooie)
• Ultimate - Terry (Fatal Fury)
• Ultimate - Byleth (Fire Emblem)
• Ultimate - Min Min (ARMS)
• Ultimate - Steve (Minecraft)
• Ultimate - Sephiroth (Final Fantasy)
• Ultimate - Pyra/Mythra (Xenoblade)
• Ultimate - Kazuya (Tekken)
• Ultimate - Sora (Kingdom Hearts)

Every Link is stated to be a different person per incarnation which is from a different era and land, something that is repeated for BoTW Link being another version of the main Smash Link and Young Link being from a whole other timeline, other than ALttP Zelda being implied to be also a different one.

Another evidence is Otacon saying that Mr. Game & Watch comes from another world where everything is flat.

When Galeem did the big slaughter, the narration stated that fighters and their stories would come to an end, other than the universe being destroyed by Galeem of course. Galeem has also taken the spirits of basically every living being in the Smash Multiverse, as it's stated from the narration that there's only a last world left. It is also heavily implied that Galeem's light has destroyed not just the universe, but has also reached other realms, due to:

• Sakurai saying that Kirby had to warp to escape the attack, as Galeem's light has reached also other realms, something we see also in the game.
• Spirits include also different versions of the same character and all the TloZ series (despite these being alternate timelines in Smash canon).
• (May be yapping as I dunno anything of Castlevania) Spirits of Castlevania being also captured, with that series being stated from Palutena to happen across parallel worlds.

The evidence above points at Galeem affecting not just the main universe, but all the universes of the Smash Bros cosmology (outside one).

How much is it? Well, it's 176 x countless 2-B, as yes, the JP version completely lacks infinite here. The characters who'd scale from this are Galeem, Dharkon and everyone who's powered by spirits.

EDIT: I can understand if the evidence is not enough for a full 2-B and go down to a likely/possibly if needed. However, the base tier should still be Low 2-C at minimum, as the fighters were empowered from also Dialga, whose birth created time, and Arceus who created the Pokémon world, which wouldn't make sense if Arceus would be just 3-A here, as it'd imply that it did not create time.

Galeem is Immeasurable, too

Another layer of insanity? YES!

Well, evidence for Galeem's light being Immeasurable is his light even reaching other time periods, due to it affecting also all the eras of the Metal Gear series, the same with Sonic's (as shown with Silver) and Mario (with Baby Mario).

And yes, characters have showcased to be able to react and being able to temporairly outrun to these beams, that being, outside of obviously Kirby:

• Link, Palutena and Mewtwo being able to cast defensive techniques, not being aware of them being obliterated anyway.
• Sonic being implied to be able to outrun these beams, other than him being stated to be the fastest Smash Fighter on the running aspect.
• Inklings being able to hide in their ink before being hit.

And so on. In the video you can see that generally everyone is able to react to these in some way without being completely blitzed.

Aka... everyone who is MFTL+ off Galeem's light is becoming Immeasurable. GGs.

 

[RanHover60]

Based. Agree

 

[McFriesGuy075]

Metal Gear?!?!?!? Agreed

 

[Sparkive]

I disagree with any use of the DLC mention, that dialogue is there solely so that the voice actors don't need to be called, plus the Smash Bros 4 characters receive dialogue in Ultimate, on top of that, the dialogue loses meaning when you add this to the franchises already existing in Smash Bros... I agree with everything else, which If I understand the thread correctly, it wouldn't change the result in AP.

In speed... A question I've had for a while, why do we scale the singular light rays to the final expansion of light that engulfs the universe? They seem like different things to me.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I disagree with any use of the DLC mention, that dialogue is there solely so that the voice actors don't need to be called, plus the Smash Bros 4 characters receive dialogue in Ultimate, on top of that, the dialogue loses meaning when you add this to the franchises already existing in Smash Bros... I agree with everything else, which If I understand the thread correctly, it wouldn't change the result in AP.

Everyone who is "3-A, possibly Low 2-C" will become 2-B.

Plus the DLC thing imo is just Palutena now getting to know these characters, other than evidence for each franchise being its own universe (as if that was not obvious enough), you can't just pretend it does not exist tbh.

In speed... A question I've had for a while, why do we scale the singular light rays to the final expansion of light that engulfs the universe? They seem like different things to me.

I suppose it's due to these being still Galeem's light, which shouldn't be that different.

They'd become Immeasurable anyways so.

 

[Sparkive]

Everyone who is "3-A, possibly Low 2-C" will become 2-B

I meant that with or without the mention of the DLC, the same result of 40 uncountable universes is achieved.

you can't just pretend it does not exist tbh.

The problem is that Lucas is one of those, and Pit knows him directly thanks to Brawl's adventure mode, I would say that in the best case scenario the DLC of 4 should be ignored and only the ones from Ultimate should be counted. (considering that Ultimate itself replaced them) However, there would still be 40 uncountable universes.

I suppose it's due to these being still Galeem's light, which shouldn't be that different.

Honestly I don't think it's enough, but meh

 

[StrymULTRA]

I meant that with or without the mention of the DLC, the same result of 40 uncountable universes is achieved.

Ah lol.

The problem is that Lucas is one of those, and Pit knows him directly thanks to Brawl's adventure mode

Right.

I would say that in the best case scenario the DLC of 4 should be ignored and only the ones from Ultimate should be counted. (considering that Ultimate itself replaced them) However, there would still be 40 uncountable universes.

Mmh... I'll wait for more staff, I wouldn't be against this idea however.

 

[StrymULTRA]

40

Actually, I realized that there might more more than just 40.

136 series other than the main ones were involved, making it 176.

 

[Remus1998]

Agree with this

 

[koopa3144]

Looks good, I agree with 2-B and Immeasurable speed.

 

[Infinitinet]

2-C seems fine. I disagee with 2-B bedause the countless count seems baseless. It could easily be hundreds rather than countless. I agree with everything else.

 

[StrymULTRA]

2-C seems fine. I disagee with 2-B bedause the countless count seems baseless. It could easily be hundreds rather than countless. I agree with everything else.

MWI by default is 2-B because it begins since the beginning of time though. It's why Pokémon is 2-B.

 

[Infinitinet]

It's why Pokémon is 2-B.

No? They have a lot more evidence, including a countless statement.

 

[StrymULTRA]

No? They have a lot more evidence, including a countless statement.

The countless is more supportive evidence, yes. But MWI here by default is countless anyway.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

I agree.

Though, isn't there an infinite worlds statement somewhere in Smash Ultimate?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Though, isn't there an infinite worlds statement somewhere in Smash Ultimate?

Not in JP.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Not in JP.

The imgur link doesn't open for me.

Edit: Wait, never mind, it works.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Anyway, more evidence for Smashers coming from their own universe which I am adding to OP:

• Mei Ling saying that every Link comes from a different era and land.
• Otacon saying that Mr. Game & Watch comes from another world where everything is flat.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Not in JP.

I think I agree with 2-B then.

(Though, I feel like there's something in Smash that implies that all language versions of the scripts are canon, but maybe I'm thinking of Pokemon instead).

 

[StrymULTRA]

Though, I feel like there's something in Smash that implies that all language versions of the scripts are canon, but maybe I'm thinking of Pokemon instead

Pokémon is not an exception here lol. I think you're talking about Sonic instead.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Pokémon is not an exception here lol. I think you're talking about Sonic instead.

Eh, maybe.

Anyway, I think 2-B is fine. If any evidence comes out for 2-A, that's fine too.

 

[Braking]

I flipping agree!

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

There seems to be evidence that Smash Universe is actually a Multiverse not just a Universe. Likewise, even individual multiverses such as the Legend of Zelda series is a confirmed multiverse carried over to Smash. Both of which would confirm 2-C at minimum. Then we have MWI being canon to Smash, which is 2-B minimum.

Though, we have stricter rules about Immeasurable speed. We do not assume Immeasurable attack speed just because of dimensional travel shenanigans or attacks having temporal AoE.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Though, we have stricter rules about Immeasurable speed. We do not assume Immeasurable attack speed just because of dimensional travel shenanigans or attacks having temporal AoE.

Galeem's stuff is supported from also the Smashers reacting and being able to dodge these attacks, meaning they're Immeasurable. It's why Undertale is Immeasurable too.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I disagree with any use of the DLC mention, that dialogue is there solely so that the voice actors don't need to be called, plus the Smash Bros 4 characters receive dialogue in Ultimate, on top of that, the dialogue loses meaning when you add this to the franchises already existing in Smash Bros... I agree with everything else, which If I understand the thread correctly, it wouldn't change the result in AP.

This is not actually an argument. We know what the out-of-universe reason is, but that reason still has in-universe implications that are absolutely usable. As such, "it's just there so that the voice actors don't need to be called" doesn't work as a rebuttal

In speed... A question I've had for a while, why do we scale the singular light rays to the final expansion of light that engulfs the universe? They seem like different things to me.

Definitely not even suggested at all to be different attacks, they're absolutely the same thing

Though, we have stricter rules about Immeasurable speed. We do not assume Immeasurable attack speed just because of dimensional travel shenanigans or attacks having temporal AoE.

We don't just magically give Dimensional Travel to attacks traveling through different time periods and such just because we don't want to give them Immeasurable speed

 

[Psychomaster35]

I agree with these proposals

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Multiversal range is indeed Dimensional Travel by default. And it's more so "Every character with Low 2-C and above destructive capacity having Immeasurable attack speed" is obviously the ultimate outcome we want to avoid. Though, reacting to bits and pieces of attacks that were actively traveling back in time or dodging an attack that already struck you would be immeasurable reaction. I suppose I am more so neutral if it comes more so from the reactions of the cast rather than Galeem's own attack. And Kirby is the one who effectively alluded it; which he's the one who has the best bet of the cast being scaled off of.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Yeah we have stuff like Link being able to block the attack, Sonic and Pikachu being able to run from it for some time, Pit and Dark Pit able to fly away from it with the Power of Flight, Palutena able to put up her Reflect, Bayonetta being able to dodge it, Kirby doing Kirby things, pretty much every character is able to move in tandem with that attack (albeit being slower overall)

 

[StrymULTRA]

Multiversal range is indeed Dimensional Travel by default.

Ok.

And it's more so "Every character with Low 2-C and above destructive capacity having Immeasurable attack speed" is obviously the ultimate outcome we want to avoid.

Nobody said it here.

Though, reacting to bits and pieces of attacks that were actively traveling back in time or dodging an attack that already struck you would be immeasurable reaction. I suppose I am more so neutral if it comes more so from the reactions of the cast rather than Galeem's own attack. And Kirby is the one who effectively alluded it; which he's the one who has the best bet of the cast being scaled off of.

Dude, did you even read OP, or have checked some?

Link blocked the attacks, Palutena and Mewtwo managed to form shields, Sonic is implied that he'd have able to outrun these, and the rest Clover said. Seems like you're trying to nitpick for the sake of doing so rn ngl.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Wait why did I say "ok" lol. They have physically travelled there, there's no evidence they used some hax to do that stuff. Occam's razor would only say the former with the stuff we saw on-screen.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Dude, did you even read OP, or have checked some?

Link blocked the attacks, Palutena and Mewtwo managed to form shields, Sonic is implied that he'd have able to outrun these, and the rest Clover said. Seems like you're trying to nitpick for the sake of doing so rn ngl.

I have read it and aware of those examples. I even said Kirby's case was the especially best example; never said only example, just the best example. And worst case scenario is the cast being scaled from Kirby. I have no intention of knit picking, I just wanted to make sure and double check before applying.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I mean either way Galeem would end up being Immeasurable speed, this is just a more roundabout way of doing it which imo makes less sense

 

[CodeCCLL]

Every character with Low 2-C and above destructive capacity having Immeasurable attack speed" is obviously the ultimate outcome we want to avoid.

Such immeasurable speed arguments are only worth discussing in verses where the attack is shown to physically traverse the space-time continuum.

As a similar but rejected case: The only reason that Tensura's Beelzebub, which physically envelops, absorbs and destroys space-time continuums, was considered to have mftl+ (based on the time it takes to traverse the radius of the observable universe) rather than immeasurable speed was because the spread of the attack was depicted as taking time.

Obviously, both Undertale, Tensura (Web Novel) and the event here are based on the same logic. But I'm not sure how strict we should be about this.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Obviously, both Undertale, Tensura (Web Novel) and the event here are based on the same logic. But I'm not sure how strict we should be about this.

Am I supposed to be worried?

 

[Huesito88]

Am I supposed to be worried?

Not at all for Undertale, don't know about Slime

 

[StrymULTRA]

Not at all for Undertale, don't know about Slime

No I mean for an incoming downgrade that I'm supposed to waste energy to refute lol.

 

[Huesito88]

No I mean for an incoming downgrade that I'm supposed to waste energy to refute lol.

You're completely fine they never left the Universe even though it all got destroyed, they're completely bullet proof

 

[CodeCCLL]

Am I supposed to be worried?

If you're worried about such things, yes, it's a possibility.

 

[StrymULTRA]

If you're worried about such things, yes, it's a possibility.

Why not upgrading Tensura instead of threatening my stuff smh.

 

[CodeCCLL]

threatening my stuff

If you perceive this as a threat, you may also perceive any downgrade that you do not accept as a threat. In that case, the problem would be you.

Why not upgrading Tensura instead

As I said, I think the same logic valid, so if this crt is rejected, mftl+ would be the correct rating, so an upgrade would just be wank, so it's safest to wait for the conclusion of this.