TF2 Downgrades Part 3

[Genericstickman]

Actually you can probably scale to the Short Circuit vaporising projectiles with one shot

 

[Livinmeme]

also the feat in meet the scout is more consistent in 9-A vs 9-b there is one

 

[Abstractions]

No it really wasn't ab


But if taking a hit from it is Wall Level, then why add it as 8-C?

That's again, your failure to understand it.

They survive hits from the weapons and they are functionally about the same as the weapons you are scaling them to

You cannot just "survive" and then be vaporized, that's not how that works.

I agree that the Cow Mangler isn't 300 Megajoules, since it is as strong as the Rocket Launcher. The anti-feat only happens upon death, which takes a few shots, so it isn't really an anti feat for the Mercs so much as it is one for the weapons.

So essentially you are saying we throw the vaporizing weapons tier out the window and they all stay 9-B, got it.

 

[Livinmeme]

No it really wasn't ab


But if taking a hit from it is Wall Level, then why add it as 8-C?

That's again, your failure to understand it.
They survive hits from the weapons and they are functionally about the same as the weapons you are scaling them to

You cannot just "survive" and then be vaporized, that's not how that works.

I agree that the Cow Mangler isn't 300 Megajoules, since it is as strong as the Rocket Launcher. The anti-feat only happens upon death, which takes a few shots, so it isn't really an anti feat for the Mercs so much as it is one for the weapons.

So essentially you are saying we throw the vaporizing weapons tier out the window and they all stay 9-B, got it.

wow everything you say was wrong congratulations

 

[Schwxnz]

Stop being snarky. That will get us nowhere.

 

[Livinmeme]

Stop being snarky. That will get us nowhere.

is a joke

 

[Agnaa]

Yeah but the weapons have no inherent reason to be in the game, unlike respawning. Different weapons doing different things makes sense outside of the games mechanics anyway. The only reason you are claiming that must gameplay feats are just mechanics is that they contradict your pre-set view rather then any accurate scaling or logic.

They do have inherent reason to be in the game. It's a ******* FPS, they have weapons in them. Different weapons doing different things makes sense outside of game mechanics, but scaling them based on exact damage values doesn't really make sense. I've held this view long before I found out about TF2 having these issues.

There is nothing outside of the gameplay to judge these weapons by so scaling the weapons, since they all can be survived by the same people and do similar things to the non-Vape weapons is the only reasonable option.

Oh, if we're just saying that all weapons are roughly the same because they can all harm/be survived by other characters then that's fine.

You don't need to tank something to scale?? if you can consisabtly survive something, even if you take some damage, you can scale. That is just basic scaling. By that logic no video game character could scale to any bosses in the game due to taking damage from them. If two characters punch each other, and visibly damage each other evenly, they won't scale to each other?

Sorry, when I use "tank" I don't mean "takes absolutely zero damage", I just mean that they don't die from it. I may be using my terms wrong.

But like DDM said, if we're scaling them to taking some damage from these vaporization weapons, then they don't scale to the full vaporization value, since it takes multiple hits to vaporize.

 

[Livinmeme]

Yeah but the weapons have no inherent reason to be in the game, unlike respawning. Different weapons doing different things makes sense outside of the games mechanics anyway. The only reason you are claiming that must gameplay feats are just mechanics is that they contradict your pre-set view rather then any accurate scaling or logic.
They do have inherent reason to be in the game. It's a ******* FPS, they have weapons in them. Different weapons doing different things makes sense outside of game mechanics, but scaling them based on exact damage values doesn't really make sense. I've held this view long before I found out about TF2 having these issues.

There is nothing outside of the gameplay to judge these weapons by so scaling the weapons, since they all can be survived by the same people and do similar things to the non-Vape weapons is the only reasonable option.

Oh, if we're just saying that all weapons are roughly the same because they can all harm/be survived by other characters then that's fine.

You don't need to tank something to scale?? if you can consisabtly survive something, even if you take some damage, you can scale. That is just basic scaling. By that logic no video game character could scale to any bosses in the game due to taking damage from them. If two characters punch each other, and visibly damage each other evenly, they won't scale to each other?

Sorry, when I use "tank" I don't mean "takes absolutely zero damage", I just mean that they don't die from it. I may be using my terms wrong.

But like DDM said, if we're scaling them to taking some damage from these vaporization weapons, then they don't scale to the full vaporization value, since it takes multiple hits to vaporize.

ok what example character is 9-C by surviving a knife but some people try to dowgrade because he suffer several atacks from the knif he dies it has alredy said several times the mercenary escale to his weapons an by that logic most of the examples 9-b will be atipicals because are the mercenary resisting his own weapons (who most of the time are support feats)

 

[Agnaa]

I don't understand what you're saying in your response.

Also, please try to not quote huge blocks of text.

 

[Livinmeme]

is not that big and also im not very god redacting things

 

[Schwxnz]

So, are all of the weapons going to be 9-B(+) now, or...?

Edit: Actually, Genericstickman may have found a possible 9-A feat for one of the weapons in the form of vaporizing projectiles such as RPGs in one shot.

 

[Livinmeme]

So, are all of the weapons going to be 9-B(+) now, or...?
Edit: Actually, Genericstickman may have found a possible 9-A feat for one of the weapons in the form of vaporizing projectiles such as RPGs in one shot.

no all weapons are 9-A

 

[Genericstickman]

I mean you're not giving much proof that they are

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I just got to say, the knife example is super faulty. Knives don't even have tiers since the kinetic energy of a knife can vary based on the person using it; though the sharpness factor is the part that makes it menacing and not the energy yield.

I mean, two guys moderately damaging each other via punching each other in the face back and forth and eventually killing each other does make sense in a scaling chain. But not something like a heat weapon going from moderate damage to massive overkill just like that. It's not like punches go from simply bruising people to literally causing their entire bodies to explode just like that.

 

[00potato]

I agree with not scaling them to the full vaporization value, it seems like the most reasonable option.

Thanks for the discussion, it was nice to finally come to a conclusion on this issue.

 

[Schwxnz]

Well, could someone calc what tier it'd be to vaporize RPG rockets?

 

[Livinmeme]

I just got to say, the knife example is super faulty. Knives don't even have tiers since the kinetic energy of a knife can vary based on the person using it; though the sharpness factor is the part that makes it menacing and not the energy yield.
I mean, two guys moderately damaging each other via punching each other in the face back and forth and eventually killing each other does make sense in a scaling chain. But not something like a heat weapon going from moderate damage to massive overkill just like that. It's not like punches go from simply bruising people to literally causing their entire bodies to explode just like that.

bruh

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yes, those are examples of melee weapons being used but regular humans. But a High 4-C character for example could wield a pair of chop sticks with Tier 4 levels of force. At the end of the day, it's the wielder who generates those tiers and not the weapons.

And a lot of those tiers are assumed to be wielded by various 10-A characters.

 

[Livinmeme]

i think you lost my point

 

[Schwxnz]

Well, could someone calc what tier it'd be to vaporize RPG rockets?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

But a High 4-C character for example could wield a pair of chop sticks with Tier 4 levels of force. At the end of the day, it's the wielder who generates those tiers and not the weapons.

No, actually.

Someone trying to use a *regular* pair of chopsticks with Tier 4 force, without those chopsticks having tier 4 durability, would have those sticks atomize (if we're being super-sciency here, collapse into a black hole because of general relativity). Or in lamen's terms, they'd just break.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

They used the Ki to enhance the durability of the chopsticks. And I know those chopsticks would break normally, but fiction is fiction and plot armor likes this happens all the time. And there are other verses that don't got that shiz.

 

[DMUA]

And we all know about the Merc's vast proficency in Ki Techniques to amp their weapons

 

[CursedGentleman]

So... Did anyone ever calculated that End of the Line Feat?

I feel like it should scale, or at least be calculated.

 

[CursedGentleman]

And we all know about the Merc's vast proficency in Ki Techniques to amp their weapons

I mean... Pyro does have that Hadoken

 

[Livinmeme]

waith a minute if a rocket is calced 622 megajoules and scout survived 4 of them not will be 9-A

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It was not calculated anywhere near that much; it was only calculated about 1% of that.

 

[Livinmeme]

It was not calculated anywhere near that much; it was only calculated about 1% of that.

you know that the explosion is almost 9-A so taking 4 explosion will be 9-A also the scout and demoman was pretty hurt damn even the demoman was in weelchair

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The combined might of three of them sure, but not a single rocket. Also, Scout didn't actually tank it. Surviving =/= tanking; it only took one to break the bones. Implying they shouldn't fully scale.

 

[Livinmeme]

The combined might of three of them sure, but not a single rocket. Also, Scout didn't actually tank it. Surviving =/= tanking; it only took one to break the bones. Implying they shouldn't fully scale.

still tanking even almost killing him and also the demoman survived 3 rockets and was far more damaged

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Demoman wasn't hit by those rockets, he was on a wheel chair yes, but he didn't even take a hit. And no, tanking something means you took the hit and still able to fight on. By that logic, a lot of fodder characters who scale from top tiers for a lot of verses.

 

[Livinmeme]

Demoman wasn't hit by those rockets, he was on a wheel chair yes, but he didn't even take a hit. And no, tanking something means you took the hit and still able to fight on. By that logic, a lot of fodder characters who scale from top tiers for a lot of verses.

meet the medic minute 2:30 and i pretty sure than a fodder receving hits for top tier and surviving are outliers

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yes, this is another example of that. The Scout and Demoman are regularly fodderized by missiles.

 

[Livinmeme]

Yes, this is another example of that. The Scout and Demoman are regularly fodderized by missiles.

the scout was alredy hurted by missiles and demoman was in a weelchair so no

 

[Genericstickman]

Man it sure is great going back to the same topic over and over again instead of changing it, also isn't it implied they just got overwhelmed? They seemed fine going back into battle after getting healed

 

[Livinmeme]

Man it sure is great going back to the same topic over and over again instead of changing it, also isn't it implied they just got overwhelmed? They seemed fine going back into battle after getting healed

well every time i trie to change topic the just trie to change the topic especially when i give more feats 9-A

 

[Genericstickman]

Not to be rude but you just repeat the same thing even if it had been addressed

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

You haven't given a single detail, you just kept on spamming random numbers without source. And the changes were already made a long time ago. Save they're only should be 9-A via vaporizing weapons and not durability or striking strength.

 

[Livinmeme]

yes nothing contradicte even if contradicte we had like 6 feats 9-a and two 8c
1.cow managler and other weapons

2.in the event of hallowen the character can shoot fireball who should had this force

3.merasmus created his castle.the place where figth than i not renember and a island and yes the mercenary should scale to merasmus he only stomp because

1.magic

2.inmortality and boost

3.bominomicon

4.with a uknown amount of piles or sticky the demoman can create this explosion

and other feats who also i dont renember but is more consistent 9-a than 9-b also the rocket launcher should scale to the cow managler or other desintegration weapon

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

This thread has absolutely nothing to do with D&D... And none of the magic spells in TF2 were calculated and doubt anything would exceed 9-B. Except for vaporizing weapons, but it's already had a bunch of circular reason for why that's paradoxical.