Tensura Revision : Part 4

[Jozaysmith?]

Bec that's not Chaos Manipulation at all.

It is the same as saying that if I go to a city and destroy it and people tell me that I am the embodiment of madness or chaos then I have Chaos Manip, that is what you are implying.

Literally there saying he's a natural occurring disaster
Forget that other scan

Chaos Manipulation is primarily used in the form of destruction, such as the destruction of space, time, or even reality itself. Such a being can be the embodiment of chaos, whereas their simple appearance causes everything to become chaotic, such as automatically triggering natural disasters,

 

[Jozaysmith?]

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people saying you're embodiness of madness versus you being literal madness is different
True dragons are conceptual entities
Its fully nitpicking and ignoring evidence if you portray it another way as well

 

[Dereck03]

We discussed about that in a thread you yourself viewed and gave approval of
We're not just throwing words around we know how it works
Rimuru is unaffected by existence erasure whatsoever
It wont affect him not even close
And Veldora haki was erasing him

Will leave this for another thread, i'll focus on the others stuffs.

https://imgur.io/a/7i4v41o

I don't see anything that proves Mind Manip Resistance much less a Greater one.

Literally there saying he's a natural occurring disaster

That's a way of referring to him because of the disaster he causes every time he shows up as i said before, it's just a metaphorical comment and nothing else.

It is the same as saying that if I go to a city and destroy it and people tell me that I am the embodiment of madness or chaos then I have Chaos Manip, that is what you are implying.

Chaos Manipulation is primarily used in the form of destruction, such as the destruction of space, time, or even reality itself.

Destroying spacetime does not give you chaos manipulation by default, it is one of its possible applications, it all depends on the context.

Such a being can be the embodiment of chaos, whereas their simple appearance causes everything to become chaotic, such as automatically triggering natural disasters,

Literally this is against the scans you showed, veldora does not cause natural disasters because of his simple presence, but because veldora himself releases the energy destroying everything on his path and leaving ruin, he doesn't do passively neither because an ability related to chaos.

---

people saying you're embodiness of madness versus you being literal madness is different

That was an example.

True dragons are conceptual entities
Its fully nitpicking and ignoring evidence if you portray it another way as well

Whether they are conceptual entities is the least of it, what matters here is the context and what it proves is simply metaphorical comments due to the destructive nature of Veldora.

According to your standards, any character that destroys everything in its path by releasing energy should have chaos manipulation.

 

[Mizuki67]

I don't see anything that proves Mind Manip Resistance much less a Greater one.

she was resisting control even ultimate skill users couldnt resist. how is it not mind manipulation resistance ?

 

[Dereck03]

she was resisting control. how is it not mind manipulation resistance ?

Because "Resist control" can refer to many forms of resistance, not simply or specifically mind manipulation.

Likewise this does not prove a "Greater" resistance as the OP claims.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Will leave this for another thread, i'll focus on the others stuffs.

I don't see anything that proves Mind Manip Resistance much less a Greater one.

That's a way of referring to him because of the disaster he causes every time he shows up as i said before, it's just a metaphorical comment and nothing else.



Destroying spacetime does not give you chaos manipulation by default, it is one of its possible applications, it all depends on the context.


Literally this is against the scans you showed, veldora does not cause natural disasters because of his simple presence, but because veldora himself releases the energy destroying everything on his path and leaving ruin, he doesn't do passively neither because an ability related to chaos.

That was an example.

Whether they are conceptual entities is the least of it, what matters here is the context and what it proves is simply metaphorical comments due to the destructive nature of Veldora.

According to your standards, any character that destroys everything in its path by releasing energy should have chaos manipulation

What are you trying to justify with this?
Its clear that he's natural occurring disaster
Or rather he's disaster itself, the idea of disaster, annihilation, ruin and other chaotic things
The second scan led you astray sure.
And i will remove it
But stop glimmering only at that scan
"Raging storm itself"
Which produces disasters naturally
such as annihilation and other things in that regard
Which was also discussed about in a thread you yourself also gave approval to
I don't see why its not what it is
I used space time issue as reference cuz of his haki
Just like how Velzard is fixation literally
Veldora is disaster literally
His chaos manipulation is far more reasonable than even Chaos creator rimuru who produces chaos from world of chaos
As he should only be Void literally
But that thread is for another day when volume 19 comes up

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Because "Resist control" can refer to many forms of resistance, not simply or specifically mind manipulation.

Likewise this does not prove a "Greater" resistance as the OP claims.

This again?
It literally deals with mental manip
Ultimate skill users cant be controlled at all
It will be easier if you were knowledgeable of the series that's why i tag only Elizhaa alone but i shall produce scan

https://imgur.io/a/edGRbuT

 

[Mizuki67]

Because "Resist control" can refer to many forms of resistance, not simply or specifically mind manipulation.

Likewise this does not prove a "Greater" resistance as the OP claims.

uh this is a no brainer it should be related to mind manipulation if u read the light novel anyways i will wait for elizhaa input this is going no where

 

[Dereck03]

What are you trying to justify with this?
Its clear that he's natural occurring disaster
Or rather he's disaster itself, the idea of disaster, annihilation, ruin and other chaotic things
The second scan led you astray sure.
And i will remove it
But stop glimmering only at that scan

No scans for the Bolded parts.

"Raging storm itself"
Which produces disasters naturally
such as annihilation and other things in that regard

As far as I can see it is simply a way of referring to him metaphorically because of his reputation for causing disaster wherever he went, you literally have not shown any scan to justify your claim and now you remove a scan leaving this in limbo.

Which was also discussed about in a thread you yourself also gave approval to
I don't see why its not what it is

This have nothing to do, i'm focusing on this thread now.

I used space time issue as reference cuz of his haki

Unrelated then.

Just like how Velzard is fixation literally
Veldora is disaster literally
His chaos manipulation is far more reasonable than even Chaos creator rimuru who produces chaos from world of chaos
As he should only be Void literally
But that thread is for another day when volume 19 comes up

No scans = nothing.

This again?
It literally deals with mental manip
Ultimate skill users cant he controlled at all
It will easier if you were knowledgeable of the series that's why i tag only Elizhaa alone but i shall produce scan

Stop with the condecency, because literally half or more than half of what you proposed in this thread this non-knowledgeable member has completely debunked it. Why don't you first try to give scans that contain the full evidence and not just some random thing that only contains 1 minor piece of evidence that is missing all possible context?

https://imgur.io/a/edGRbuT

uh this is a no brainer it should be related to mind manipulation if u read the light novel

It is not so because as I said there are many forms of control and it is not always related to Mind Manip, but it seems that NOW YES the OP gave the scan he should have given from the beginning and not information without evidence.

And then if the excuse is that I should know that X is X without giving evidence of why just arguing that "if you read the novel you would know it" then just don't ask for evaluation, since don't expect the rest of the staff apart from Elizhaa to have read Tensura.

 

[Mizuki67]

It is not so because as I said there are many forms of control and it is not always related to Mind Manip, but it seems that NOW YES the OP gave the scan he should have given from the beginning and not information without evidence.

And then if the excuse is that I should know that X is X without giving evidence of why just arguing that "if you read the novel you would know it" then just don't ask for evaluation, since don't expect the rest of the staff apart from Elizhaa to have read Tensura.

i apologise then i was not thinking straight. I get that the scans were lacking we will provide more scans if asked

 

[ashen]

If this is based on Veldora's stuffs then i disagree.

Scan of this "domination ability"?


By the way, I am seeing too much use of "Greater" and I fear it is being used incorrectly, since we give "Greater" only when a user has 2 ways to apply the same technique i.e. Conceptual Manip via X and via Y but the application and potency of Y is far superior and effective than X's, this warrants the "Greater".

Overcoming someone who is resistant to an hax with the same type of hax is considered as greater don’t it ?

 

[Jozaysmith?]

No scans for the Bolded parts.


As far as I can see it is simply a way of referring to him metaphorically because of his reputation for causing disaster wherever he went, you literally have not shown any scan to justify your claim and now you remove a scan leaving this in limbo.

This have nothing to do, i'm focusing on this thread now.

Unrelated then.

No scans = nothing.

Stop with the condecency, because literally half or more than half of what you proposed in this thread this non-knowledgeable member has completely debunked it. Why don't you first try to give scans that contain the full evidence and not just some random thing that only contains 1 minor piece of evidence that is missing all possible context?


It is not so because as I said there are many forms of control and it is not always related to Mind Manip, but it seems that NOW YES the OP gave the scan he should have given from the beginning and not information without evidence.

And then if the excuse is that I should know that X is X without giving evidence of why just arguing that "if you read the novel you would know it" then just don't ask for evaluation, since don't expect the rest of the staff apart from Elizhaa to have read Tensura.

Well i provided scan
Also it wasn't metaphorically stated it was literally
Also forgive my rude comment,

From Velzard’s seem to be the concept of ‘fixation’ and had given him an unrivaled and powerful defensive ability. It was not as powerful as Castle Guard, but it was more useful in that it could be used to attack at the same time. -Volume 19 chapter 4

You already have the one for mind manipulation

 

[Tatsumi504]

Regeneration Negation (Mid-Godly) as he is capable of destroying a spiritual lifeforms preventing them from ever coming back as discussed here
Immortality Type 2,3,4 & 6 Negation (same reason above)

This isn't regeneration negation. Mid-godly by definition is regenerating from complete destruction of the physical aspect, mind and soul. Ifrit's regeneration isn't being negated here it's being bypassed by destroying him on a level he can't regenerate from. Based on this, the negation of various immortality need to be checked too.

Resistance to Regeneration Negation (High Godly) Anti skill wont work on True dragons, it was noted as not worth defending
Even Veldora haki now wont work

I read through the thread and the OP said they'll drop this so it should be removed from the OP to prevent misunderstandings. In addition, separate to the points dereck brought up, this isn't regeneration negation it's just power nullification. Anti-skill is negating the skill "infinite regeneration" thus stopping it from activating at all. The only time this can be regeneration negation is if anti-skill can nullify the regenerative effects of infinite regeneration not nullifying the skill itself.

 

[ashen]

If this is based on Veldora's stuffs then i disagree.

Scan of this "domination ability"?


By the way, I am seeing too much use of "Greater" and I fear it is being used incorrectly, since we give "Greater" only when a user has 2 ways to apply the same technique i.e. Conceptual Manip via X and via Y but the application and potency of Y is far superior and effective than X's, this warrants the "Greater".

Is it officially written somewhere ?
About greater ?

 

[Tempestdragon6]

following

 

[Jozaysmith?]

following

Following what???

 

[Tempestdragon6]

Following what???

i'll give my input later

 

[Mizuki67]

i'll give my input later

you always said that

 

[Vietthai96]

Passive chaos Manipulation With Veldora, who is a raging storm itself, his presence creates natural disasters and unusual chaos every where resulting to barren lands

This isn't Chaos hax, Chaos hax is something like an inverse, opposite of Law hax. Being natural disaster isn't Chaos hax, sure it cause chaotic shit, but chaos here is a metaphor, not literal chaos as in opposite of order. And he being

Regeneration Negation (Mid-Godly) as he is capable of destroying a spiritual lifeforms preventing them from ever coming back as discussed here
Immortality Type 2,3,4 & 6 Negation (same reason above)

I agree with @Tatsumi504 here, erase your target beyond the level that their regeneration cover isn't regeneration negation. And idk why type 2 and 6 being involved here

Immortality negation Type 9
Velgrynd boasted she can infact escape her situation by transferring herself into her other body from the other dimension she's trapped in

This isn't immortality type 9 negation, type involve the relationship between a true form in different dimension and avatars, negation of this type is when you negate the ability to link between avatars and true form, not trying to prevent someone to transfer themselves from this body to that body

 

[BlackCat]

You should work on Rimuru's speed in your next CRT

His thought process is stated to be hundred millions of times faster but he is still listed as FTL instead of MFTL+

Why do you think it is MFTL+? When we have calculations and threads that has already been accepted

 

[CodeCCLL]

I completely agree with everything Dereck has said so far.

Only, I find the use of phrases like "Greatly Enhanced, Enhanced, Greater" mostly correct for some reason. I will talk about these reasons later.

In addition, separate to the points dereck brought up, this isn't regeneration negation it's just power nullification. Anti-skill is negating the skill "infinite regeneration" thus stopping it from activating at all. The only time this can be regeneration negation is if anti-skill can nullify the regenerative effects of infinite regeneration not nullifying the skill itself.

Also, Tatsumi is absolutely right about this. Although Yuuki can also negate all magicules-based abilities, this is not actually regeneration negation either. If Dereck agrees with this, we can remove it.

 

[ashen]

I completely agree with everything Dereck has said so far.

Only, I find the use of phrases like "Greatly Enhanced, Enhanced, Greater" mostly correct for some reason. I will talk about these reasons later.

Also, Tatsumi is absolutely right about this. Although Yuuki can also negate all magicules-based abilities, this is not actually regeneration negation either. If Dereck agrees with this, we can remove it.

Canceling someone ability that made up his regeneration ≠ regeneration negation… ??

Seem extremely illogical to me.

Since the definition of immortality negation is « The ability to permanently kill an immortal being, or at the very least remove their immortality to the point of being susceptible to any forms of conventional death. »
This is exactly what yuuki anti skill does it remove your ability/skills to regenerate.

Or more generally remove/negate your skill for a certain duration.

 

[Tempestdragon6]

Agree about the regeneration negation
But I'm not sure if the immortality negation can be accepted with the current scan (note only the type 9)
I agree about Chaos manipulation of veldora just need a better wording the rest are fine for me

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Sure

I completely agree with everything Dereck has said so far.

Only, I find the use of phrases like "Greatly Enhanced, Enhanced, Greater" mostly correct for some reason. I will talk about these reasons later.

Also, Tatsumi is absolutely right about this. Although Yuuki can also negate all magicules-based abilities, this is not actually regeneration negation either. If Dereck agrees with this, we can remove it.

 

[ashen]

Canceling someone ability that made up his regeneration ≠ regeneration negation… ??

Seem extremely illogical to me.

Since the definition of immortality negation is « The ability to permanently kill an immortal being, or at the very least remove their immortality to the point of being susceptible to any forms of conventional death. »
This is exactly what yuuki anti skill does it remove your ability/skills to regenerate.

Or more generally remove your negate your skill for a certain duration.

The notable weaknesses/limitations of it are

• it does not transfer to a weapon
• it cannot negate several things at the same time
• it work only via physical contact

But otherwise it is absolute

 

[Jozaysmith?]

I agree with @Dereck03 maybe some other time i can re open a case for chaos manip
For others input it seem logical

 

[XRking]

How is LN Rimuru’s hundreds of millions oof times then normal thought acceleration perception is only limited to FTL while Wn Rimuru’s 1 to 10 million of times thought acceleration is considered MFTL+?

 

[CodeCCLL]

How is LN Rimuru’s hundreds of millions oof times then normal thought acceleration perception is only limited to FTL while Wn Rimuru’s 1 to 10 million of times thought acceleration is considered MFTL+?

LN Rimuru experiences one second as 10 years, despite a thought acceleration multiplier of several 100 Millions, and as a result of the calculation made based on this information, the FTL value was reached.

There isn't such expression for WN Rimuru (If there is, there needs to be a calculation, but I'm almost sure there isn't) so 1-10 Million times thought acceleration is considered a direct multiplier to Rimuru's perception speed.

Also, I think not specific speed calculation has been made for the WN series yet. So there isn't clear value for achievements like Chloe keeping up with Melt Slash and overpowered him.

 

[Neoxxi16]

There isn't such expression for WN Rimuru (If there is, there needs to be a calculation, but I'm almost sure there isn't) so 1-10 Million times thought acceleration is considered a direct multiplier to Rimuru's perception speed.

Also, I think not specific speed calculation has been made for the WN series yet. So there isn't clear value for achievements like Chloe keeping up with Melt Slash and overpowered him.

"I thought it was because of the time stop theme, where they increase their speed by a million times, along with their perception?

 

[CodeCCLL]

"I thought it was because of the time stop theme, where they increase their speed by a million times, along with their perception?

Thought acceleration multipliers are completely different from the 1,000,000x movement speed multipliers in stopped time.