Tensura LN revision: Possible Regeneration downgrade for rimuru tempest

[Tatsumi504]

In this thread it was agreed to upgrade LN rimuru's Regeneration from mid-godly to High-godly for these reasons;

—That even if I didn’t use “Gluttonous King Beelzebub” to cancel the attack, I wouldn’t be killed even when hit by “Melt Slash” head on?
<<Answer. Of course not. Speculate to consume massive amount of magicule, however, the physical body can be instantly revived through “Endless Regeneration”.>> (Volume 7)

She casts “Disintegration”. This power begins to gather on the empty left hand of Hinata, giving off a bright shine.

The sparkling particles intertwine to create a fantasy-like scenery.

Then Hinata imbues that light onto the body of her Moonlight Rapier.

—Her left hand slowly caresses the body of her sword.

The preparation is done.

She has infused her strongest magic with her sword art.

This is the technique that shall slash through all things in the world.

“Come now, have you made your resolve?”

“Bring it on!”

“Then take this—Melt Slash!”

Hinata finishes her words and turns into a beam of light, quickly approaching Rimuru. (Volume 7)

“Let me provide you a prayer to the divine. I hope and desire for the power of the holy spirits. Listen to my appeal and overcome all in your way! Disintegration!!”

The request, delivered in Hinata’s beautiful voice, was granted. The resulting show of force was literally divine, enough to crush all physical and spiritual presences within its defined space. It was the ultimate in targeted, destructive magic, emitting flashes of white light as it poured from Hinata’s hands to the circle. It sped out at thousands of miles per hour, almost at light speed, as its holy power made cells and souls vanish without a trace. It was more than enough to make the Glutton disappear, not affecting the space around it at all. (Volume 5)

An ‘information particle’ was a substance smaller than even ‘spirit particle,’ and was close to having no mass at all. All matter in the world had to contain ‘information particles.’ (Volume 11)

The OP went on to prove that the soul and even skills is a metaphysical thing and also made up of information particles which led to the conclusion that since rimuru is capable of regenerating from melt slash, he is able to regenerate after the destruction of his fundamental aspect of existence.

The problem herein now lies in the fact that Raphael said this;

<<Answer. Of course not. Speculate to consume massive amount of magicule, however, the physical body can be instantly revived through “Endless Regeneration”.>> (Volume 7)

Which now leads to this question;
If melt slash is capable of completely erasing the body, soul, skills, even information particles that's the fundamental aspect of existence in tensura, how is rimuru able to regenerate with "endless regeneration" that is infact a skill that should have been erased along with rimuru, with no context of the skill itself being revived first? As this means not everything was actually erased.

This comment in a previous thread as well goes on to state that "Endless Regeneration" is an intrinsic skill and is a part of Rimuru's physiology (body). This also began the question whether low-godly would even be appropriate to apply as this statement would mean that rimuru's body wouldn't be completely destroyed by melt slash either.

My conclusion. The statement by Raphael (who is the most knowledgeable person in tensura about all things concerning rimuru) contradicts what the attack "melt slash" was stated to do. Its either the info on melt slash is wrong or the statement by Raphael is an outlier.
As a result that upgrade rimuru was given should be removed and replaced with the appropriate level of regen if this contradiction isn't cleared.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Bump

 

[noxx]

The statement by Raphael (who is the most knowledgeable person in tensura about all things concerning rimuru) contradicts what the attack "melt slash" was stated to do. Its either the info on melt slash is wrong or the statement by Raphael is an outlier.

I must've seeing things. anyways i dont think that's the case?

 

[Tatsumi504]

This doesn't answer the question or solve the contradiction in anyway

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

The issue with what you’re asserting is that it fundamentally falls apart once you actually examine the narrative. It’s cited that Beelzebub would be destroyed if hit:

<<Report. Attack can be counteracted by sacrificing Ultimate Skill “Gluttonous King Beelzebub”, suggest adapting said strategy.>>
Even at this point, Wisdom King Raphael-sama is still reliable.
But honestly, it will be a huge loss to sacrifice “Gluttonous King Beelzebub”, but right now I can only follow this instruction. Since it is the solution suggested by Raphael that has the highest rate of success, I should not have any hesitation. (Volume 7)

Which is precisely what happens:

—That even if I didn’t use “Gluttonous King Beelzebub” to cancel the attack, I wouldn’t be killed even when hit by “Melt Slash” head on?
<<Answer. Of course not. Speculate to consume massive amount of magicule, however, the physical body can be instantly revived through “Endless Regeneration”.>> (Volume 7)

But Rimuru directly recreates the exact same ability, he doesn’t lose Beelzebub forever. Which exactly what Raphael says here, the physical body (made of information), will be regenerated due to his Intrinsic Skill. It wouldn’t matter if Endless Regeneration was destroyed, as Rimuru can restore his skills, evidently.

This supposed contradiction does not exist.

 

[Tatsumi504]

The issue with what you’re asserting is that it fundamentally falls apart once you actually examine the narrative. It’s cited that Beelzebub would be destroyed if hit:



Which is precisely what happens:



But Rimuru directly recreates the exact same ability, he doesn’t lose Beelzebub forever. Which exactly what Raphael says here, the physical body (made of information), will be regenerated due to his Intrinsic Skill. It wouldn’t matter if Endless Regeneration was destroyed, as Rimuru can restore his skills, evidently.

This supposed contradiction does not exist.

Been waiting for you.
I'm taking all of that into account but wouldn't rimuru have to be alive, literally exist for him to recreate the skill? Otherwise wouldn't this mean before his information gets Completely erased he regenerates his body? Wouldn't this disqualify any form of godly regeneration since it's not complete destruction?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Been waiting for you.
I'm taking all of that into account but wouldn't rimuru have to be alive, literally exist for him to recreate the skill? Otherwise wouldn't this mean before his information gets Completely erased he regenerates his body? Wouldn't this disqualify any form of godly regeneration since it's not complete destruction?

No, he wouldn’t need to be, because it’s intrinsic, he will always do it, unconsciously.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Then that means intrinsic skill or whatever he does subsconciously to regenerate his skills/body exist as something different than abilities/skills that are type 2 information. Because even if it is an intrinsic skill. if its still falls as a type 2 information like beelzebub then melt slash would ultimately erase it alongside everything else then that intrinsic skill cannot function if erased or doesn't exist anymore that would be contradictory to the effect if melt slash description of erasing everything

If intrinsic skill is considered information 2 then and it wasnt erased then that would fall into partial destruction which disqualify it for high godly.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Then that means intrinsic skill or whatever he does subsconciously to regenerate his skills/body exist as something different than abilities/skills that are type 2 information. Because even if it is an intrinsic skill. if its still falls as a type 2 information like beelzebub then melt slash would ultimately erase it alongside everything else then that intrinsic skill cannot function if erased or doesn't exist anymore that would be contradictory to the effect if melt slash description of erasing everything

If intrinsic skill is considered information 2 then and it wasnt erased then that would fall into partial destruction which disqualify it for high godly.

Yeah. Makes sense

 

[Tatsumi504]

Then that means intrinsic skill or whatever he does subsconciously to regenerate his skills/body exist as something different than abilities/skills that are type 2 information. Because even if it is an intrinsic skill. if its still falls as a type 2 information like beelzebub then melt slash would ultimately erase it alongside everything else then that intrinsic skill cannot function if erased or doesn't exist anymore that would be contradictory to the effect if melt slash description of erasing everything

If intrinsic skill is considered information 2 then and it wasnt erased then that would fall into partial destruction which disqualify it for high godly.

That is exactly my entire point. It wouldn't even qualify for low godly since supposedly intrinsic skills are part of their physiology meaning their body.

 

[Rozi]

I think that's enough for high godly

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I think that's enough for high godly

Complete eraser of fundamental concepts or information gives one HGR not just so half concepts or information gets erased.

 

[Tatsumi504]

I think that's enough for high godly

To get any godly form of regeneration, the thing needed for that tier has to be fully, completely, absolutely erased or destroyed.
In this case this is partial destruction and as such doesn't qualify, even worse it doesn't meet the standard for low godly not to mention high godly.

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

I will take the case in the game timeline 'Isekai Memories'.

In that timeline, Rimuru was erased by Disintegration against Hinata Sakaguchi and it took him 3 years to regenerate. This could be called High-Godly Regeneration, but overtime. This was even when Rimuru didn't have 'Endless Regeneration'.

Disintegration itself removes from the cell, to the soul. Where the soul itself is the Information Particle. And the mind is Information, because the soul is consciousness itself. So, soul and Mind in Tensura is Information. Eliminating the soul means erasing the Information that makes up the soul and mind. And eliminating skills also includes erasing information. Because in volume 5, Disintegration clearly eliminated the Unique Skill 'Gluttony' that used Rimuru's clone without leaving a trace. Which means, Disintegration is able to erase the physical Body, soul, and information without leaving a trace.

Rimuru could regenerate from that and it was High-Godly Regeneration.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I will take the case in the game timeline 'Isekai Memories'.

In that timeline, Rimuru was erased by Disintegration against Hinata Sakaguchi and it took him 3 years to regenerate. This could be called High-Godly Regeneration, but overtime. This was even when Rimuru didn't have 'Endless Regeneration'.

Disintegration itself removes from the cell, to the soul. Where the soul itself is the Information Particle. And the mind is Information, because the soul is consciousness itself. So, soul and Mind in Tensura is Information. Eliminating the soul means erasing the Information that makes up the soul and mind. And eliminating skills also includes erasing information. Because in volume 5, Disintegration clearly eliminated the Unique Skill 'Gluttony' that used Rimuru's clone without leaving a trace. Which means, Disintegration is able to erase the physical Body, soul, and information without leaving a trace.

Rimuru could regenerate from that and it was High-Godly Regeneration.

I think you still not get what OP is proposing

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

In this case this is partial destruction and as such doesn't qualify, even worse it doesn't meet the standard for low godly not to mention high godly.

It's funny when Disintegration and Melt Slash are categorized as Existence Erasure that erases existence without leaving a trace (Starting from cells, souls, even information), but regenerating from it doesn't meet the standar for Low-Godly.

 

[Tatsumi504]

I will take the case in the game timeline 'Isekai Memories'.

In that timeline, Rimuru was erased by Disintegration against Hinata Sakaguchi and it took him 3 years to regenerate. This could be called High-Godly Regeneration, but overtime. This was even when Rimuru didn't have 'Endless Regeneration'.

Disintegration itself removes from the cell, to the soul. Where the soul itself is the Information Particle. And the mind is Information, because the soul is consciousness itself. So, soul and Mind in Tensura is Information. Eliminating the soul means erasing the Information that makes up the soul and mind. And eliminating skills also includes erasing information. Because in volume 5, Disintegration clearly eliminated the Unique Skill 'Gluttony' that used Rimuru's clone without leaving a trace. Which means, Disintegration is able to erase the physical Body, soul, and information without leaving a trace.

Rimuru could regenerate from that and it was High-Godly Regeneration.

Leave the game out of it as I'm not arguing with it at all.
You don't seem to even understand what I'm proposing at all.
There's a clear contradiction between what raphael said and what melt slash is supposed to do. Meaning if melt slash properties are correct then is statement by Raphael is an outlier

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

It's funny when Disintegration and Melt Slash are categorized as Existence Erasure that erases existence without leaving a trace (Starting from cells, souls, even information), but regenerating from it doesn't meet the standar for Low-Godly.

He is saying Raphael statement and Melt Slash both are not matching.

 

[Tatsumi504]

It's funny when Disintegration and Melt Slash are categorized as Existence Erasure that erases existence without leaving a trace (Starting from cells, souls, even information), but regenerating from it doesn't meet the standar for Low-Godly.

It is funny that you can't understand the simple point I'm making.

You say melt slash erases cells, souls, information. I'm not discrediting that.

If melt slash is capable of completely erasing the body, soul, skills, even information particles that's the fundamental aspect of existence in tensura, how is rimuru able to regenerate with "endless regeneration" that is infact a skill that should have been erased along with rimuru, with no context of the skill itself being revived first? As this means not everything was actually erased.

This is the main issue in contention.
1. Why wasn't "Endless "Regeneration" erased by melt slash when melt slash is supposed to erase information

2.Tensura supporters said endless regeneration is an intrinsic skill meaning its part of the body. If endless regeneration wasn't erased then that means the body wasn't completely erased either which is why it doesn't meet the standard for low godly.

Note: Raphael never said anything about recreating endless regeneration first. Just straight up said he won't die because it would immediately regenerate his body

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

Meaning if melt slash properties are correct then is statement by Raphael is an outlier

Why Outlier?

Raphael had analyzed Melt Slash back then. That's why Raphael was sure that even if Rimuru was directly hit by a Melt Slash, Rimuru could regenerate.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Why Outlier?

Raphael had analyzed Melt Slash back then. That's why Raphael was sure that even if Rimuru was directly hit by a Melt Slash, Rimuru could regenerate.

Bro you still not getting what OP is proposing

 

[Tatsumi504]

Why Outlier?

Raphael had analyzed Melt Slash back then. That's why Raphael was sure that even if Rimuru was directly hit by a Melt Slash, Rimuru could regenerate.

It is funny that you can't understand the simple point I'm making.

You say melt slash erases cells, souls, information. I'm not discrediting that.

This is the main issue in contention.
1. Why wasn't "Endless "Regeneration" erased by melt slash when melt slash is supposed to erase information

2.Tensura supporters said endless regeneration is an intrinsic skill meaning its part of the body. If endless regeneration wasn't erased then that means the body wasn't completely erased either which is why it doesn't meet the standard for low godly.

Note: Raphael never said anything about recreating endless regeneration first. Just straight up said he won't die because it would immediately regenerate his body

This! There's an entire contradiction surrounding Raphael's analysis and melt slash abilities. The contradiction also discredits the statement to the point that it doesn't even qualify for low godly regeneration.

Low godly- regeneration after the complete/ total destruction of the body.
Endless regeneration= intrinsic skill.
Intrinsic skill= part of physiology/body.
Intrinsic skill not being erased= discrediting complete destruction of the body.

What is so hard to understand here?

 

[Tatsumi504]

If Raphael simply said;
1.Rimuru would regenerate without mentioning any kind of skills or

2.Says rimuru's Skill will reform first then regenerate rimuru's body then this contradiction wouldn't exist.

Instead he says;

<<Answer. Of course not. Speculate to consume massive amount of magicule, however, the physical body can be instantly revived through “Endless Regeneration”.>> (Volume 7)

This literally means endless regeneration was not erased as a flaw in melt slash ability as all skills should be erased by it

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

Low godly- regeneration after the complete/ total destruction of the body.
Endless regeneration= intrinsic skill.
Intrinsic skill= part of physiology/body.
Intrinsic skill not being erased= discrediting complete destruction of the body.

Do you think the body in Tensura only consists of the physical body to think that the intrinsic skills are in the physical body?

Physiology Tensura itself is Soul, Astral, Spiritual, and material. And Skills are usually in the soul, although sometimes there are those in the Spiritual Body or Material Body like Unique Skill Shogo.

But we're talking about intrinsic skills, which are more like the essence of character, like soul.

My answer is the same as Milly.

The issue with what you’re asserting is that it fundamentally falls apart once you actually examine the narrative. It’s cited that Beelzebub would be destroyed if hit:



Which is precisely what happens:



But Rimuru directly recreates the exact same ability, he doesn’t lose Beelzebub forever. Which exactly what Raphael says here, the physical body (made of information), will be regenerated due to his Intrinsic Skill. It wouldn’t matter if Endless Regeneration was destroyed, as Rimuru can restore his skills, evidently.

This supposed contradiction does not exist.

I don't know why I'm not getting notifications from a week ago, it's quite tiring to have to search carefully or refresh this page.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Physiology Tensura itself is Soul, Astral, Spiritual, and material.

And once again, made of information, too.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Do you think the body in Tensura only consists of the physical body to think that the intrinsic skills are in the physical body?

Physiology Tensura itself is Soul, Astral, Spiritual, and material. And Skills are usually in the soul, although sometimes there are those in the Spiritual Body or Material Body like Unique Skill Shogo.

But we're talking about intrinsic skills, which are more like the essence of character, like soul.

My answer is the same as Milly.

I don't know why I'm not getting notifications from a week ago, it's quite tiring to have to search carefully or refresh this page.

Still it's not refuting anything OP proposing

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Still it's not refuting anything OP proposing

I think you’re just being dishonest, really.

Raphael was very clear, he could regenerate Beelzebub. But if it hit him, Endless Regeneration would save him. Endless Regeneration is part of his body, NOT a skill, something intrinsically woven into his physical existence (which is made of information).

This “it didn’t destroy all of it”, is not true, when you look at the actual skill description:

Infinite Regeneration: Enhanced version of Extra Skill Ultraspeed Regeneration. Works even quicker than its previous version and can now even regenerate from having the Spiritual Body shattered.

The physical body is made out of the astral, spiritual, physical, and informational. How could Rimuru regenerate his spiritual body, if it’s destroyed? Because it is an UNCONSCIOUS effort, and will continue if EVERYTHING is erased — which is High-Godly.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Do you think the body in Tensura only consists of the physical body to think that the intrinsic skills are in the physical body?

Physiology Tensura itself is Soul, Astral, Spiritual, and material. And Skills are usually in the soul, although sometimes there are those in the Spiritual Body or Material Body like Unique Skill Shogo.

But we're talking about intrinsic skills, which are more like the essence of character, like soul.

One of the verse supporters said this.
Either way this doesn't clear the contradiction, it just makes the statement qualify for at least low godly

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I think you’re just being dishonest, really.

Raphael was very clear, he could regenerate Beelzebub. But if it hit him, Endless Regeneration would save him. Endless Regeneration is part of his body, NOT a skill, something intrinsically woven into his physical existence (which is made of information).

This “it didn’t destroy all of it”, is not true, when you look at the actual skill description:



The physical body is made out of the astral, spiritual, physical, and informational. How could Rimuru regenerate his spiritual body, if it’s destroyed? Because it is an UNCONSCIOUS effort, and will continue if EVERYTHING is erased — which is High-Godly.

Just because you didn't understand doesn't mean others being dishonest here. Well let's see what staff gonna say as far as I can see you people just arguing something else other than what OP is proposing

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Just because you didn't understand no one being dishonest here. Well let's see what staff gonna say as far as I can see you people just arguing something else besides which OP is proposing

No, you’re dishonest. I understand what you’re proposing, I disagree with it.

One of the verse supporters said this.
Either way this doesn't clear the contradiction, it just makes the statement qualify for at least low godly

Very interesting you brought up the old thread, instead of the new thread that targets those arguments in order to get HGR passed.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

No, you’re dishonest. I understand what you’re proposing, I disagree with it.

Just so you disagree with something and agree with it that means dishonest? Nice

 

[Tatsumi504]

Raphael was very clear, he could regenerate Beelzebub. But if it hit him, Endless Regeneration would save him.

You are literally second guessing, in other words head canon. Rimuru or Raphael would have to be alive or in existence to recreate "endless regeneration"also the statement gave no context of recreating endless regeneration first then reviving rimuru

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

You are literally second guessing, in other words head canon. Rimuru or Raphael would have to be alive or in existence to recreate "endless regeneration"also the statement gave no context of recreating endless regeneration first then reviving rimuru

That even if I didn’t use “Gluttonous King Beelzebub” to cancel the attack, I wouldn’t be killed even when hit by “Melt Slash” head on?
<<Answer. Of course not. Speculate to consume massive amount of magicule, however, the physical body can be instantly revived through “Endless Regeneration”.>> (Volume 7)

Because it is an UNCONSCIOUS effort,

Intrinsic Skill, so you’re just dishonest, as well. Especially that point is debunked the moment you put in the OP.

In fact.

Rimuru or Raphael would have to be alive or in existence to recreate "endless regeneration"

Prove this positive claim.

Just so you disagree with something and agree with it that means dishonest? Nice

Nope, I disagree with your arguments that just compose of “it doesn’t refute anything” and I think it’s “dishonest”.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Very interesting you brought up the old thread, instead of the new thread that targets those arguments in order to get HGR passed

Did you read that comment specifically? I didn't bring up the old thread, it was in reference to intrinsic skills being a part of the body.

No, you’re dishonest. I understand what you’re proposing, I disagree with it.

I honestly cannot fathom in what way I'm being dishonest here. Just because I disagree with something?

If you can provide any evidence or context of rimuru or Raphael recreating endless regeneration when neither of them exist then this entire contradiction is cleared. That's literally all you have to do.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Nope, I disagree with your arguments that just compose of “it doesn’t refute anything” and I think it’s “dishonest”.

According to you that "disagree" means "dishonest" then from my POV you are just bias.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Prove this positive claim.

Its literally simple logic. Why don't you bring proof of rimuru recreating a skill when he doesn't even exist?

Intrinsic Skill, so you’re just dishonest, as well. Especially that point is debunked the moment you put in the OP.

What exactly there is debunked?

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

Rimuru or Raphael would have to be alive or in existence to recreate "endless regeneration"also the statement gave no context of recreating endless regeneration first then reviving rimuru

Alive? Of course Rimuru was alive, that's why he was able to regenerate. If he died and came back again, it was more like Immortality Type 4. Since Rimuru was alive and able to regenerate, it became Regeneration.

Distinguish resurrection and regeneration.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Alive? Of course Rimuru was alive, that's why he was able to regenerate. If he died and came back again, it was more like Immortality Type 4. Since Rimuru was alive and able to regenerate, it became Regeneration.

You do realize that this entirely contradicts rimuru getting erased on the information level

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

You do realize that this entirely contradicts rimuru getting erased on the information level

You should have realized that if Rimuru died it would contradict regeneration instead. Because it will be more to Resurrection, than Regeneration.

In fact, Rimuru regenerated from the complete destruction of the physical body, soul, to information. Because this is regeneration, not resurrection.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Did you read that comment specifically? I didn't bring up the old thread, it was in reference to intrinsic skills being a part of the body.

And the only reason said new thread was even allowed to stay up is because of the fact there was new arguments, so what is your point?

If you can provide any evidence or context of rimuru or Raphael recreating endless regeneration when neither of them exist then this entire contradiction is cleared. That's literally all you have to do.

Are you aware of what the word “intrinsic”, means? Inherent. There is no consciousness effort to preform. This is very clearly shown by Rimuru’s other skills, Multilayer Barrier & Demon Lord’s Haki, being passive.

Its literally simple logic. Why don't you bring proof of rimuru recreating a skill when he doesn't even exist?

You made the claim, prove it.

What exactly there is debunked?

The point is Endless Regeneration would bring him back, if they were hit with Melt Slash, which targets information, minds, souls, and cells. Endless Regeneration is part of his body. Raphael has no reason to lie about the capabilities of his Skill, which is why he was asserted even if he was erased, it would bring him back — because it’s always intrinsic.

According to you that "disagree" means "dishonest" then from my POV you are just bias.

Misconstrue me if you want, I don’t care.