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Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Discussion Thread 20

rainheart said:
than what about guy and velzard.. i do have proof to back up my argumen..
to move in in u dont have to be a digital lifeform.. but requiring SW can make you move in SW..
velzard can use SW cuz she has it due the skill of patient king gabriel.. the only way guy has those skill is copying velzard..
For chloe she hasnt became an DLF she hasnt fuse with chronoa which is a manas..
and also how chloe can move she is still unknown but i find something intresthing that she can move in it with her skill yog sothtoh..
and there is a statement by ciel that she sayd..
gyazo.com

Gyazo

gyazo.com gyazo.com
and by this statement rimuru will able to move after copying/analyze the SW
Click to expand...
werent Suspended World and the time stop in volume 12 different? they comes from different Ultimate Skill
 
Diablo_ said:
I think yes as Rimuru was able to move and get between guy and Chloe
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this was because Guy and Chloe were only activating at the time of the attack and deactivating afterwards, but it's possible to have two types of time stop, because if it's just one, I wouldn't understand why Chloe wouldn't have the power level of a digital life form before volume 19
 
Peak said:
manipulation of time and fate in 4D level, in the game it was shown that Reverse fate can also return the opponent to nothing, just like she did with Rimuru, and as he said, it's not just a return, she returns Michael to something she believes he must be, and not what he really was, that's how I interpreted it from Rimuru's description, but that may change when better translations come out, as for the 'God of space-time', we don't know what skills came with it, so we should wait for more details
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Just got this ability. In this context, i thank you very much for this And I agree with you saying that more details should be waited.
 
Catpija said:
werent Suspended World and the time stop in volume 12 different? they comes from different Ultimate Skill
Click to expand...
time stop that guy and chloe use is SW it was sayd in vol 19 by rims and ciel that they feel the same phenomenan that he feel when guy vs chloe..
and the TS that guy and chloe use also defies the laws of pysic which it is SW..
 
V2001 said:
Just got this ability. In this context, i thank you very much for this And I agree with you saying that more details should be waited.
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I think if Rimuru didn't get the castle guard Chloe could beat him with this attack lol Chloe is very op
 
rainheart said:
time stop that guy and chloe use is SW it was sayd in vol 19 by rims and ciel that they feel the same phenomenan that he feel when guy vs chloe..
and the TS that guy and chloe use also defies the laws of pysic which it is SW..
Click to expand...
yeah but Chloe hasnt become digital lifeform yet at that time so its doesnt make any sense for her to already able to move in volume 19 suspended world, furthermore Chloe's time stop originated from her time-based Ultimate Skill that focused on manipulating the time, while Velzard's coming from the concept of "fixation", both are totally different abilities that can give the same result, stopping time.
 
There are some things I don't understand about Acas 5.

1st just taking an example, If Chloe and Michael had Acas 5 and Chloe cast reverse fate on Michael and it worked, would that be something to disregard Acas 5 or would it be a feat of what reverse fate or even Chloe could affect Acas 5?

2° about the interaction with other characters, beings with Acas 5 can interact with other characters that don't have Acas 5? if so I imagine it is with avatars, but is there another way other than this? and if a being who has Acas 5 interacts with someone who doesn't, would that be a reason to take the Acas 5 from that being?
 
this thread about acc5 again...don't focus on it, we don't even have confirmation of acc4 yet, let alone acc5
 
Within verse, no one or nothing has been said to be able to resist this ability, not least because it has just been introduced, but in debates, it depends on how many layers of resistance to the manipulation of time and destiny the opponent will have
 
Peak said:
this thread about acc5 again...don't focus on it, we don't even have confirmation of acc4 yet, let alone acc5
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I'm not saying there is, that's why I said in the first question "example" so much so that in the second question I don't even speak slime, I'm asking because I really have doubts about Acas 5
 
JV_DLS said:
I'm not saying there is, that's why I said in the first question "example" so much so that in the second question I don't even speak slime, I'm asking because I really have doubts about Acas 5
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I won't be sure, but as far as I know, those who have acc5 can affect those who don't, but they can't be affected by them
 
JV_DLS said:
There are some things I don't understand about Acas 5.

1st just taking an example, If Chloe and Michael had Acas 5 and Chloe cast reverse fate on Michael and it worked, would that be something to disregard Acas 5 or would it be a feat of what reverse fate or even Chloe could affect Acas 5?
Click to expand...
Probably a big anti-feat, but whether it completely debunks the Acausality Type 5 would depend on the context of how strong the evidence for Acausality Type 5 is.
JV_DLS said:
2° about the interaction with other characters, beings with Acas 5 can interact with other characters that don't have Acas 5? if so I imagine it is with avatars, but is there another way other than this? and if a being who has Acas 5 interacts with someone who doesn't, would that be a reason to take the Acas 5 from that being?
Click to expand...
Beings with Acausality Type 5 can interact with non-acausal entities without any explanation or avatars, we don't treat it as an anti-feat despite it not making sense. We just treat it as a quirk of fiction and the same brand of illogicalness that allows Acausality Type 5 to be a thing.
 
Everything12 said:
Probably a big anti-feat, but whether it completely debunks the Acausality Type 5 would depend on the context of how strong the evidence for Acausality Type 5 is.
Click to expand...
So for the first question it depends how strong is the evidence for Acas 5?!
Everything12 said:
Beings with Acausality Type 5 can interact with non-acausal entities without any explanation or avatars, we don't treat it as an anti-feat despite it not making sense. We just treat it as a quirk of fiction and the same brand of illogicalness that allows Acausality Type 5 to be a thing.
Click to expand...
And for the second, interaction is really and normally possible, I thought not from the description of Acas 5 in the VSB and from what I saw many people saying, basically even if someone has Acas 5 it can interact with beings that don't have it?! I thought that not interacting was some sort of requirement or that interacting was an anti-feat.

Thank you very much you clarified my doubts
 
JV_DLS said:
So for the first question it depends how strong is the evidence for Acas 5?!

And for the second, interaction is really and normally possible, I thought not from the description of Acas 5 in the VSB and from what I saw many people saying, basically even if someone has Acas 5 it can interact with beings that don't have it?! I thought that not interacting was some sort of requirement or that interacting was an anti-feat.

Thank you very much you clarified my doubts
Click to expand...
if shion's ability of cause and effect can't affect digital beings even after evolving into an ultimate ability, that would be perfect evidence
 
JV_DLS said:
And for the second, interaction is really and normally possible, I thought not from the description of Acas 5 in the VSB and from what I saw many people saying, basically even if someone has Acas 5 it can interact with beings that don't have it?! I thought that not interacting was some sort of requirement or that interacting was an anti-feat.
Click to expand...
Other way around, people without Acausality Type 5 not interacting with people proposed to have Acausality Type 5 is the evidence and people without Acausality Type 5 interacting with character proposed to have Acausality Type 5 is an anti-feat.
 
a curious fact that I noticed is that in each world there is not only a different space-time, but a different reality with completely different laws and causality, but beings with ultimate abilities are not bound by the laws of the world because they are their own law and expand. his laws about other things like Dino who autered Bereta's laws and made her enter a sleep state even though demons didn't have a concept of sleep, but Dino created him and made her enter this state, another example is that there are weak worlds that can be destroyed by Velgrind, and it has been stated several times that users of ultimate abilities are free from the laws of the world, but Guy told Yuki that it is impossible to completely transcend the laws of physics in that particular world, but never denied that it is possible to transcend them. the laws of other worlds, and why doesn't this happen? because the laws of that world were created by Veldanava himself and as he is the God of Tensura it is impossible to transcend his laws as he is the transcendent god himself set by Dino himself, but the laws can be altered with a certain administration permission , and this permission is precisely the ultimate abilities, and this method was created by Veldanava himself
 
LoganKroos said:
a curious fact that I noticed is that in each world there is not only a different space-time, but a different reality with completely different laws and causality, but beings with ultimate abilities are not bound by the laws of the world because they are their own law and expand. his laws about other things like Dino who autered Bereta's laws and made her enter a sleep state even though demons didn't have a concept of sleep, but Dino created him and made her enter this state, another example is that there are weak worlds that can be destroyed by Velgrind, and it has been stated several times that users of ultimate abilities are free from the laws of the world, but Guy told Yuki that it is impossible to completely transcend the laws of physics in that particular world, but never denied that it is possible to transcend them. the laws of other worlds, and why doesn't this happen? because the laws of that world were created by Veldanava himself and as he is the God of Tensura it is impossible to transcend his laws as he is the transcendent god himself set by Dino himself, but the laws can be altered with a certain administration permission , and this permission is precisely the ultimate abilities, and this method was created by Veldanava himself
Click to expand...
and it is said that the power to change these laws and what it is made of is precisely magic that is controlled by the willpower of the soul, and as the spirit worlds are made of magic, basically there are no laws to be followed and the being with more will prevails over the other, that's why Fedway said that Diablo was strong in the material world, but in the spiritual world and in hell he was invincible, precisely because his willpower was amazing and because he was immortal thanks to the great spirit of the darkness and so both Fedway and Guy avoid fighting him
 
LoganKroos said:
and it is said that the power to change these laws and what it is made of is precisely magic that is controlled by the willpower of the soul, and as the spirit worlds are made of magic, basically there are no laws to be followed and the being with more will prevails over the other, that's why Fedway said that Diablo was strong in the material world, but in the spiritual world and in hell he was invincible, precisely because his willpower was amazing and because he was immortal thanks to the great spirit of the darkness and so both Fedway and Guy avoid fighting him
Click to expand...
so basically all spirit beings could have acca type 5 as they are made of magic, have their own law, are free from the laws of the world, control magic and are only restricted in that world because the veldanava being/god who made that world with its law, so it is impossible to break it, but we other material worlds do not
 
LoganKroos said:
so basically all spirit beings could have acca type 5 as they are made of magic, have their own law, are free from the laws of the world, control magic and are only restricted in that world because the veldanava being/god who made that world with its law, so it is impossible to break it, but we other material worlds do not
Click to expand...
another thing that proves my point is that there are also worlds without causality and that the material worlds are inside the spiritual worlds as said by Velgrind
 
LoganKroos said:
so basically all spirit beings could have acca type 5 as they are made of magic, have their own law, are free from the laws of the world, control magic and are only restricted in that world because the veldanava being/god who made that world with its law, so it is impossible to break it, but we other material worlds do not
Click to expand...
look i don't think this guarantees acas 5 but what you said but it sounds like acas 4 than 5 because as they have their own law that means they operate in a different system than the voice of the world controls, to get Acas 5 you must be separate from any and all systems or transcend them completely so that no cause and effect works on you
 
JV_DLS said:
look i don't think this guarantees acas 5 but what you said but it sounds like acas 4 than 5 because as they have their own law that means they operate in a different system than the voice of the world controls, to get Acas 5 you must be separate from any and all systems or transcend them completely so that no cause and effect works on you
Click to expand...
could be either acca 4 or 5, now this just proves even more that digital beings are type 5
 
LoganKroos said:
could be either acca 4 or 5, now this just proves even more that digital beings are type 5
Click to expand...
I think it's too early to say this, Chloe's reverse fate worked on Michael, who is also a digital being, so unless vol 20 and beyond has some concrete proof, digital beings don't have Acas 5, in fact the Acas 4 although more likely, is still being discussed.

Personally, I'm more interested in transduality, it's almost certain that digital beings will receive at least type 1, but since everything in the sludge, including dual systems, is made up of information particles, perhaps digital beings can receive type 2, well anyway, we will have to wait for volume 20 because with what we have here none of this can be taken into account
 
JV_DLS said:
I think it's too early to say this, Chloe's reverse fate worked on Michael, who is also a digital being, so unless vol 20 and beyond has some concrete proof, digital beings don't have Acas 5, in fact the Acas 4 although more likely, is still being discussed.

Personally, I'm more interested in transduality, it's almost certain that digital beings will receive at least type 1, but since everything in the sludge, including dual systems, is made up of information particles, perhaps digital beings can receive type 2, well anyway, we will have to wait for volume 20 because with what we have here none of this can be taken into account
Click to expand...
this doesn't contradict anything, a being with acaa type 5 doesn't become invincible, another with the same type can defeat him
 
LoganKroos said:
this doesn't contradict anything, a being with acaa type 5 doesn't become invincible, another with the same type can defeat him
Click to expand...
It's one thing to defeat him, another thing to be able to affect that being with an ability that reverses and shapes fate, beings with Acas 5 are outside or above the system, that is, no cause and effect like time or fate should affect them , at least what I asked myself a little while ago this does not completely disregard, but there must be quotes that make Acas 5 more concrete so that this is not an anti feat
 
JV_DLS said:
It's one thing to defeat him, another thing to be able to affect that being with an ability that reverses and shapes fate, beings with Acas 5 are outside or above the system, that is, no cause and effect like time or fate should affect them , at least what I asked myself a little while ago this does not completely disregard, but there must be quotes that make Acas 5 more concrete so that this is not an anti feat
Click to expand...
not necessarily, he is outside the standard fate, but another being of the same level can affect him with it, in Tensura time and fate are on a level far superior to any cause or effect since she is beyond even the two original spirits that form the 5 great spirits that formed the verse, even the casual world or the material and spiritual worlds are under the effect of the great spirits, but light and darkness are not, and time is not limited even by this original duality being described unlimited in relation to anything, so it's not something a simple acca type 5 can avoid
 
LoganKroos said:
not necessarily, he is outside the standard fate, but another being of the same level can affect him with it, in Tensura time and fate are on a level far superior to any cause or effect since she is beyond even the two original spirits that form the 5 great spirits that formed the verse, even the casual world or the material and spiritual worlds are under the effect of the great spirits, but light and darkness are not, and time is not limited even by this original duality being described unlimited in relation to anything, so it's not something a simple acca type 5 can avoid
Click to expand...
Well her "reverse fate " sounds like a mixture of RW/SR+FM
 
Catpija said:
yeah but Chloe hasnt become digital lifeform yet at that time so its doesnt make any sense for her to already able to move in volume 19 suspended world, furthermore Chloe's time stop originated from her time-based Ultimate Skill that focused on manipulating the time, while Velzard's coming from the concept of "fixation", both are totally different abilities that can give the same result, stopping time.
Click to expand...
No... And like i said TS in vol12 is the same i will give the scans later..
And do you know what fixation is..(its just and desire..obsession nothing more)
 
Peak said:
Within verse, no one or nothing has been said to be able to resist this ability, not least because it has just been introduced, but in debates, it depends on how many layers of resistance to the manipulation of time and destiny the opponent will have
Click to expand...
ok take note
 
Catpija said:
no, its the action of making something firm or stable, basically stopping the movement of some object, the translator tell us this
Click to expand...
What Is a Fixation? In general, a fixation is an obsessive drive that may or may not be acted on involving an object, concept, or person. Initially introduced by Sigmund Freud, a fixation is a persistent focus of the id's pleasure-seeking energies at an early stage of psychosexual development.
 
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