Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Discussion Thread 20

[Metalballrun]

Lol there are even more anti-feats in Volume 12 for some reason.
I'm really not sure which is consistent anymore. I'm very wary of making that CRT in the future now.
It seems like an outlier though, but still.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

i think someone should tell fuse to make rimuru stronger . now i cant use LN version rimuru to debate because its too weak lmao

How is LN Rimuru weak?, by now, he would be able to Hax stomp 3-A's to Low 2-C people like Goku, for example, who would be dead the moment the fight starts due to Rimuru's passives even without speed equalized.

 

[Blueicemonkey]

I wonder if the Creator plot hook will be relevant by vol 19. It seems that Yuuki has only used it Twice, despite being just a slightly capped version of Ahura Mazda. He can even make himself immune to Ultimate Skills with it, it's stupidly broken.

How is LN Rimuru weak?, by now, he would be able to Hax stomp 3-A's to Low 2-C people like Goku, for example, who would be dead the moment the fight starts due to Rimuru's passives even without speed equalized.

If anything, Rimuru is probably going to become stronger than in the WN. By vol 16, he already has Turn Null and is analyzing the Time and Space Warp. Ciel/Raphael was also revealed to be the skill that administers all the laws in the world, and Ciel can already use the Raphael functions + Harvest Lord to just make out any skill that Rimuru needs.

And there is a Veldavana tier threat running around that he will probably defeat at some point.

 

[Makenai]

Yeah all ultimate skill have universal potency as of vol 18.

 

[Metalballrun]

Yuuki going from 6-C at base to 6-A is too ridiculous lol but it seemed to be what basically happened to Hinata as well so idk
He's gonna get a new key in his Saint form, his AP is gonna be

Continent level (Yuuki remodeled his body to evolve from a human to a Sage, and then to a fully evolved Saint equal to a spiritual lifeform, surpassing Hinata Sakaguchi's Saint form. If he were to convert all his energy into magicules, he could rival Leon and Ruminas)

It's ******* ridiculous how Yuuki's attacks were described to be at one hundred meters per second lmfao, meanwhile people at the previous volumes were casually dishing out attacks nearly millions of times faster than him.

 

[DebatingIsMyGoal]

Yeah all ultimate skill have universal potency as of vol 18.

Wait how?

 

[Metalballrun]

Wait how?

There is a statement that talks about Angelic Ultimate Skills basically being Authorization to mess with the World Laws, and those very same Skills are what Veldanava used when managing the world.
There's only a possibility through hax, but there really isn't anything conclusive that I know of. People still cap at 5-B, possibly 4-C. Anything Tier 2 is still jumping the gun.

 

[DebatingIsMyGoal]

So that's range and not AP, I was excited for a moment

 

[Makenai]

So that's range and not AP, I was excited for a moment

Its not range, it hax. Whoever have Ultimate Skill will have authority to govern one part of the worlds veldanava created. For example:

Uriel govern over space.

Raphael govern over phenomenon and law.

Sariel govern over samsara.

Michael govern over will.

Etc

 

[DebatingIsMyGoal]

and how powerful/potent a hax is would be based on it's range, Raphael governs over all law and phenomenon across the universe so it's range and potency would be universal. If a hax could destroy the universe then its AP(Attack Potency) would be universal, if a hax could influence a universe but is not stated to be able to destroy that universe then its range would be universal but its AP wouldn't be universal. This is how some characters can kill outerversal beings but still be a normal human tier character.

 

[DebatingIsMyGoal]

Its not range, it hax. Whoever have Ultimate Skill will have authority to govern one part of the worlds veldanava created. For example:

Uriel govern over space.

Raphael govern over phenomenon and law.

Sariel govern over samsara.

Michael govern over will.

Etc

Also this seems like something conceptual no?

 

[Metalballrun]

and how powerful/potent a hax is would be based on it's range, Raphael governs over all law and phenomenon across the universe so it's range and potency would be universal. If a hax could destroy the universe then its AP(Attack Potency) would be universal, if a hax could influence a universe but is not stated to be able to destroy that universe then its range would be universal but its AP wouldn't be universal. This is how some characters can kill outerversal beings but still be a normal human tier character.

Well, the fact of the matter is nobody has ever had any universal attack potency, or even range for that matter, in the entire series with the exception of Veldanava (who is multiversal at his peak).
Velgrynd has Low Multiversal range with Cthugah.
Mai Furuki has Universal range with World Map.
Ramiris has whatever the actual size of the Labyrinth range.
That's as far as I can remember. If Michael had Universal AP or Range he wouldn't have needed Mai Furuki's Ultimate Gift/Enchantment to find Metatron and dominating people wouldn't require him or a user of his power to be at least ten meters near the target.

There is a possibility that this thing be explored but we have no feats, just that Veldanava used these Skills. It is an equally, if not an even bigger possibility that the reason why these skills had universal/multiversal potency is because Veldanava himself is using them.

 

[DebatingIsMyGoal]

For Ramiris, I don't know if this is relevant but in "The Ways Of The Monster Nation"(Volume 2, I believe), when the adventurers go to a safe floor in the labyrinth, there is shown to be stars in that floor. Though I don't know if those stars are fake or not.

 

[Metalballrun]

Yeah we don't know if those stars are real or not.
Rimuru mentions creating a beachside with Ramiris in the labyrinth, where "The sun shines brightly, but you won't get sunburned because it's inside the labyrinth."

A single labyrinth floor can contain a forest, a city and even mountains and large lakes however. Each floor can be city-sized if Ramiris wants it.

 

[DebatingIsMyGoal]

Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken: The Ways Of Strolling In The Demon Country - Chapter 8, Flamia and her part members died and respawned on the ninety-fifth Floor, the "Resting Place Of Explorers." Flamia looked outside the window and a countless amount of stars could be seen.
Edit: Looking for a way to convert an image to a link was hard

 

[Legion_Empire]

Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken: The Ways Of Strolling In The Demon Country - Chapter 8, Flamia and her part members died and respawned on the ninety-fifth Floor, the "Resting Place Of Explorers." Flamia looked outside the window and a countless amount of stars could be seen.
Edit: Looking for a way to convert an image to a link was hard

To me it's just a projection, It was the same as the starry sky in Nazarick

 

[Metalballrun]

To me it's just a projection, It was the same as the starry sky in Nazarick

It's something similar. It's been described in Volume 12 that while the Labyrinth is completely isolated, you can "still see the sky" inside, so when Rimuru City gets transferred to the 100th floor, people won't even notice they got BFRed to another dimension.
So it's likely some sort of space-time manipulation ability that allows the labyrinth to be connected to an already preexisting celestial bodies, but at the same time completely isolated from it and the outside world.
There's probably better explanations that I don't remember.

 

[Metalballrun]

Question: Should any of the Ten Great Saints be 6-C aside from Hinata?

• Point #1: Only Sare has a "feat" of claiming to have nearly killed Roy Valentine. Hinata judges him as "wouldn't do too bad if he fights against a Demon Lord."
  • Counterpoint #1: Hinata actually laughed at the former, and said that Roy probably was being careless.
  • Counterpoint #2: Razen is superior to Sare (and Grigori), and they are his disciples. We know Razen got easily defeated by 6-C Rimuru and unnamed Diablo.
  • Counterpoint #3: They are all weaker than Gadra, who is on Ranga's level according to Grigori's estimate.
• Point #2: Hinata describes the Ten Saints to "have a rather good chance to win against opponents such as Demon Lord Clayman. Additionally, Rimuru in Volume 12 remarks that Sages like Arno are capable of fighting Clayman.
  • Counterpoint #1: Hinata has yet to meet Clayman. Ruminas might have told her about him though.
  • Counterpoint 2: Arno, Reynald and Grigori was described by Hinata to "stand a chance against a Special A Rank monster". Arno lost to Special A Rank Albert (though tbf Albert can probably beat Clayman as well according to Rimuru), Reynald lost to Shion, and Grigori got mauled by Ranga.
• Point #3: Glenda was able to harm Souei's clones, killing three of them.
  • Counterpoint: Souei's clones are weaker than him in an unknown amount.

Basically, it's necessary to determine their most accurate tier through more concrete evidence, especially since this would affect Razen's ratings, which would affect Noir's ratings. I'm neutral and wouldn't mind if they get downgraded to Large Mountain level+ or everyone keeps their Island level rating, and thus both Razen and Noir would get 6-C in their first keys.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Question: Should any of the Ten Great Saints be 6-C aside from Hinata?

• Point #1: Only Sare has a "feat" of claiming to have nearly killed Roy Valentine. Hinata judges him as "wouldn't do too bad if he fights against a Demon Lord."
  • Counterpoint #1: Hinata actually laughed at the former, and said that Roy probably was being careless.
  • Counterpoint #2: Razen is superior to Sare (and Grigori), and they are his disciples. We know Razen got easily defeated by 6-C Rimuru and unnamed Diablo.
  • Counterpoint #3: They are all weaker than Gadra, who is on Ranga's level according to Grigori's estimate.
• Point #2: Hinata describes the Ten Saints to "have a rather good chance to win against opponents such as Demon Lord Clayman. Additionally, Rimuru in Volume 12 remarks that Sages like Arno are capable of fighting Clayman.
  • Counterpoint #1: Hinata has yet to meet Clayman. Ruminas might have told her about him though.
  • Counterpoint 2: Arno, Reynald and Grigori was described by Hinata to "stand a chance against a Special A Rank monster". Arno lost to Special A Rank Albert (though tbf Albert can probably beat Clayman as well according to Rimuru), Reynald lost to Shion, and Grigori got mauled by Ranga.
• Point #3:Glenda was able to harm Souei's clones, killing three of them.
  • Counterpoint: Souei's clones are weaker than him in an unknown amount.

Basically, it's necessary to determine their most accurate tier through more concrete evidence, especially since this would affect Razen's ratings, which would affect Noir's ratings. I'm neutral and wouldn't mind if they get downgraded to Large Mountain level+ or everyone keeps their Island level rating, and thus both Razen and Noir would get 6-C in their first keys.

isnt better like High 7-A, possibly 6-C?

 

[Metalballrun]

isnt better like High 7-A, possibly 6-C?

I forgot to add. Yes that's also fine.
The majority of the 6-C in this verse are almost baseline Island level anyways (scaling from Rimuru being 4.6 Gigatons due to likely being 3.3333x stronger than Beretta).
So it's not that far-fetched for some characters to downscale to Large Mountain level+.
This is just a question since the scaling between the characters on this tier is such a pain lol

 

[Metalballrun]

Noir will get 6-C either way since he completely stomped Razen and deflected his Nuclear Cannon by blowing air on it.

 

[Metalballrun]

Is the word "Lycanthrope" something that FUSE actually use in the raws?
It doesn't really make much sense that we call the furries with that term, since that refers to werewolves specifically (key word being lycan or lykos which means wolf). The only actual lycanthrope in the series is Grucius.
It is a good, non-gendered name but Beastmen is the correct term to be used for profiles, and the fan translations uses that. "Beastkin" would also work but it hasn't been used in any translations as far as I know so it cannot be used.

 

[Elizhaa]

Wasn't Sare stated to be a True Saint like Hinata in later volumes or was it a mistranslation?

 

[Elizhaa]

Off-topic, I got translations for the relevant Turn Null statements:

https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translations-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/page-9#post-3768834

I will be honest, Hypothetically, if one can make proper arguments why Turn Null would be a concept, it would be a type 2 concept as its independent of existence given its predate things like concepts.

 

[Metalballrun]

Wasn't Sare stated to be a True Saint like Hinata in later volumes or was it a mistranslation?

He became a Saint as of Volume 18 and had an EP of around over a million. But this was with over 2 years of training since he got defeated by Diablo. How he got stronger (since he was being beaten by Razen formerly) or how much strong he has become is unknown.

He is definitely below Razen as of Volume 12, at least in terms of combat prowess, but they should be comparable in terms of strength. Both are below Gadra and probably below Adalman or Albert as well.

 

[Helestias]

Off-topic, I got translations for the relevant Turn Null statements:

https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translations-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/page-9#post-3768834

I will be honest, Hypothetically, if one can make proper arguments why Turn Null would be a concept, it would be a type 2 concept as its independent of existence given its predate things like concepts.

Just read it,lol.But how do u eve prove that?i mean proving turn null is a concept is a hard thing itself

 

[Worthless]

Rimuru age is beyond trillions

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

How is LN Rimuru weak?, by now, he would be able to Hax stomp 3-A's to Low 2-C people like Goku, for example, who would be dead the moment the fight starts due to Rimuru's passives even without speed equalized.

No.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

No.

Why not???, Passives>speed. Goku would be dead before he could land a single punch, also don't forget that he has Mid-Godly. So no, DBS Goku loses badly.

 

[Everything12]

I think it's more beating Goku through Hax isn't exactly proof your strong. Pretty much anyone with Passive Hax can do that, with Speed equal pretty much anyone with sight/verbal hax can do it.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

I think it's more beating Goku through Hax isn't exactly proof your strong. Pretty much anyone with Passive Hax can do that.

I know, but I was just telling him that despite LN Rimuru being much weaker than his WN counterpart. He would be able to defeat the Saiyan due to passives, more Hax and regen.

 

[Everything12]

Yes, but that doesn't mean they aren't weak (not saying LN Rimuru is weak). Even characters considered weak on the Wiki can stomp Goku through one good hax.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Yes, but that doesn't mean they aren't weak (not saying LN Rimuru is weak). Even characters considered weak on the Wiki can stomp Goku through one good hax.

I know, pretty weak people can defeat him becouse Goku lacks the Hax resistances to win.

 

[Worthless]

Resistance to time stop for adult ramiris

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Why not???, Passives>speed. Goku would be dead before he could land a single punch, also don't forget that he has Mid-Godly. So no, DBS Goku loses badly.

No, again. 4D > 3D. It wouldn't work.

 

[Worthless]

No, again. 4D > 3D. It wouldn't work.

Hey he's no 4D in body lol

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

No, again. 4D > 3D. It wouldn't work.

I'm talking about 3-D Goku, not Xeno Goku.
And goku isn't Physically 4-D, only his Power is, he would still be affected.

 

[Everything12]

I know, pretty weak people can defeat him because Goku lacks the Hax resistances to win.

Exactly, so using beating Goku (or similarly haxless higher tier characters) as an example of why a character is strong doesn't work.

Goku doesn't have a 4D Body, even Xeno Goku doesn't have Higher Dimensional Existence without the Keysword. They can both be beaten by 3D Hax they don't resist.

 

[Worthless]

I'm talking about 3-D Goku, not Xeno Goku.
And goku isn't Physically 4-D, only his Power is, he would still be affected.

Yeah shit. Goku fans thinks Xeno is 4D to 5D in existence lol

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Yeah shit. Goku fans thinks Xeno is 4D to 5D in existence lol

Exactly, not even xeno Goku is higher dimensional. And many people dare to say that Goku is not wanked lol