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Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Discussion Thread 20

I was thinking, Rimuru WN was able to exist even in a world without information which is something fundamental to a being's existence (information exists because of one of the great spirits and he was erased), even the soul is a piece of information, Does this not qualify for NEP?
Information Nonexistence: These characters whose information are nonexistent. These refers strictly to the type of information that shape reality (Type 2). They are hence immune to regular Information Manipulation (Type 2).
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there may be other types of NEP if you look closely at the great spirits, in other words, they are able to exist even without information, I don't think it's impossible for Rimuru to have NEP, and Veldora also achieved the same while existing in imaginary space, even if it is protected, i doubt the information existed in the imaginary space


I don't understand anything about NEP so correct me if my reasoning is wrong
 
Peak said:
I was thinking, Rimuru WN was able to exist even in a world without information which is something fundamental to a being's existence (information exists because of one of the great spirits and he was erased), even the soul is a piece of information, Does this not qualify for NEP?

there may be other types of NEP if you look closely at the great spirits, in other words, they are able to exist even without information, but I don't think it's impossible for Rimuru to have NEP, and Veldora also achieved the same while existing in imaginary space, even if it is protected, i doubt the information existed in the imaginary space


I don't understand anything about NEP so correct me if my reasoning is wrong
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I think Nep 1 is possible
 
Peak said:
I was thinking, Rimuru WN was able to exist even in a world without information which is something fundamental to a being's existence (information exists because of one of the great spirits and he was erased), even the soul is a piece of information, Does this not qualify for NEP?

there may be other types of NEP if you look closely at the great spirits, in other words, they are able to exist even without information, I don't think it's impossible for Rimuru to have NEP, and Veldora also achieved the same while existing in imaginary space, even if it is protected, i doubt the information existed in the imaginary space


I don't understand anything about NEP so correct me if my reasoning is wrong
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Existing in a nonexistent place doesn't automatically give you Nonexistent Physiology, their has to be evidence or context that proves they themselves became nonexistent.
 
Everything12 said:
Existing in a nonexistent place doesn't automatically give you Nonexistent Physiology, their has to be evidence or context that proves they themselves became nonexistent.
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what I mean is that the information exists in verse because of a type 1 conceptual spirit and it being erased causes the information that makes up everything to be erased too, for example, the soul ceased to exist because it is made up of information and the information no longer exists since the great spirit was erased, that is, even though Rimuru was composed of information, he didn't die and could act when all the information of the verse was erased as a consequence of the non-existence of the great spirit

If what I'm talking about still doesn't rank then fine, NEP is not something I understand anyway
 
well, now that I think about it, if we take into account what was said in the last volume about how energy in slime works, if we consider that positive energy (which creates things) is existence and negative energy (which gives things back at 0, things like information which is the fundamental aspect of Slime) as non-existence, if Rimuru demonstrates a third state, that is, neither one nor the other that could give Nep 2 right?

because even if my logic is wrong, as Peak said the information particles make up everything that exists in Slime, technically you couldn't survive in a place where you don't have information, so I think you could at least classify yourself as Nep 1
 
JV_DLS said:
well, now that I think about it, if we take into account what was said in the last volume about how energy in slime works, if we consider that positive energy (which creates things) is existence and negative energy (which gives things back at 0, things like information which is the fundamental aspect of Slime) as non-existence, if Rimuru demonstrates a third state, that is, neither one nor the other that could give Nep 2 right?

because even if my logic is wrong, as Peak said the information particles make up everything that exists in Slime, technically you couldn't survive in a place where you don't have information, so I think you could at least classify yourself as Nep 1
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yes, what I meant is not that Rimuru must get NEP because he stayed in a non-existent place, but rather that he remained unaffected even when his fundamental aspect ceased to exist, there is no way for Rimuru to have information while the great spirit ceased to exist, that is, he can exist and act with or without the information of his physiology
 
WHYNAUT said:
That's resistance to info and concept manipulation.
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but it is not said that Rimuru remains with his information existing after the great spirit was erased, in other words, it is not said that he resisted, he it just continued to exist, although I understand that this probably is not enough to prove it but it is still a possibility, I believe that with the right scans this can be argued, but let's wait
 
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Peak said:
but it is not said that Rimuru remains with his information existing after the great spirit was erased, at least in my perception he did not resist but managed to exist even without these concepts, although I understand that this is not enough to prove it but it is still a possibility, I believe that with the right scans this can be argued, but let's wait
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and it is not said if Rimuru's information was erased or not, the whole last chapters were very rushed. Ciel and Yuuki states Rimuru was sent at the end of time-space as teleportation, however Ciel states she saw the end of the world and Yuuki's failure, somehow. Rimuru no matter what, won't gain nep because he himself is not non-existent, in fact his body was still there at the end of the world.
Like WHYNAUT said, it is more likely to be resistance to info and concept manipulation. You have better luck with upgrading Primordial energy, which is nonexistent, than Rimuru.
 
Bahaha said:
and it is not said if Rimuru's information was erased or not, the whole last chapters were very rushed. Ciel and Yuuki states Rimuru was sent at the end of time-space as teleportation, however Ciel states she saw the end of the world and Yuuki's failure, somehow. Rimuru no matter what, won't gain nep because he himself is not non-existent, in fact his body was still there at the end of the world.
Like WHYNAUT said, it is more likely to be resistance to info and concept manipulation. You have better luck with upgrading Primordial energy, which is nonexistent, than Rimuru.
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so that's the way it is, fine then, I won't insist on something that I don't have adequate knowledge
 
Peak said:
she does not transcend any world

World can mean universe and planet, it's nothing superior as you think, it's just a synonym

countless worlds doesn't mean infinite worlds, that just gives 2-B, it has to be innumerable/infinite worlds to be 2-A

And about the vast worlds, just take the context of the scene, Cornu's subordinates dominate the universes they invade and when that happens, they depart to another undominated universe and do the same procedure, doesn't mean it's bigger in size, it means it's yet another completely unexplored space-time to master.
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What about that velgrynd going in a universe sorry world with no direction and the world transcend time
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Peak said:
so that's the way it is, fine then, I won't insist on something that I don't have adequate knowledge
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Rimuru was sent to end of time-space ln vol 20 by feldway btw end of time-space= out of storyline somehow. So, if rimuru comes back than rimuru can be said to be uneffected by anything which indicates acca 5
 
Peak said:
so that's the way it is, fine then, I won't insist on something that I don't have adequate knowledge
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Suspensded world is something rather than a simple time stop cuz feldway who transcended every concepts of time wasn't able to move in it + Suspended world is something like physics law's halt
 
Some of rimuru hax (source: LN ) btw I can't provide scans cuz it's too hard to find out them but anyways the haxes of LN rimuru are:
1. Rimuru has every powerful being in her pocket and she uses primordials as a subordinate
2 . Rimuru has death manipulation which means she directly commands life and death with the ability called Asmodeus , He also wields something similar to Yogiri which means the skill of giving someone an " Instant Death "
3 . Rimuru has quantum maniplution which means she has info particle which acts like a quantum particle and mass of a quantum particle that also gives room for info particle ...
4 . Rimuru has " Absolute Defense " which is that Rimuru have nihility barrier that turns everything into nothingness when it comes into Contact Castle Guard the absolutely Protection Uriel and Weilzard Ice Wall ...
5 . Rimuru has Soul Manipulation which means Rimuru's Beezlebuth or Azatoth can consume anyone's soul and even store it as an info this thus leads to omni absorption as be devours all things ..
6 . Space and Time Manipulation which means that Rimuru can now travel through space and with 0 time lag making room for immeasurable speed ( Naturally without hax ) ... Rimuru has fully control on space and time and reality
7 . Skill Creation and Destruction can abolish and create a new skill which can also evolve a skill into a higher realm ( Velygrynd is a victim ) also can ban skills with Shub - Niggurath .. Indirectly Rimuru can copy anything and do all that above too
8 . Rimuru has the Void Manipulation and has the ability to control the Void Nothingness as she have the Void God : Azatoth as a skill Nihility Collapse ( Turn Null as Sub - Skill }
9 .Suspended World ! This ability freezes up the world , time , space , reality and physical laws and more only a user of suspended world can suspended world can function inside of it ... It also affects all other universes and Rimuru could use low complex multiversal range too ...
10 .Rimuru has knowledge of everything which mainly includes all spaces and his skills with this particle because was said to govern all info of the universe and world .. This ability is called Omniscient and High Omniscient
11 . Rimuru can make a fictional space and only Rimuru have access to anything within it is now non - existent as even time itself can be stored inside
12 . Rimuru can freely manipulate even the system of magic itself it became improved after becoming a digital lifeforms with about 20 ultimate skills and all dragon cores or factors
13 . Rimuru can maek u instance weaker than her regardless with the use of Leviathan she gained from Velzard also can kill stronegr people via usurper
14 . With the Purity King Rimuru can insta subdue darkness by drawing our holy magic .. This is most affective to demons and gods and Lords and titans and all those kinda things...
15 .No matter how powerful her opponent is she always wins eg . two dragons and Michael also have the ability to make your chances of wining from 100% till 0% ... BTW its called Meta Miracle Manipulation
16 . Rimuru easily controls and can annihilate beings bon our of concepts even can devour time with Azatoth or even Beezlebuth and Rimuru could even annihilate anyone soul
17 . Rimuru as a true dragon won't die as long as his concept exists he still won't die even if it got destroyed regenerate even if he got turned to absolute nothing with high godly regeneration
18 . Last but not least Rimuru may have all skills in the series via info particle since even skills are formed by info but we aren't sure so we cant say he can manipulate blackholes
 
dude, Masayuki's skill is more broken than I thought, apparently he doesn't just put the character at the peak, but also gives him all the skills he had, what I mean is that I thought Rudra only had Uriel in Masayuki's body since it was his prime, but in fact he also has Michael, only he just decided not to use it against Feldway, even though he's never used Uriel and Michael at the same time before
Velgrynd was also exasperated, but more than that, she was in love with Rudra’s bravery, and in the end, no one other than Rudra’s sister Lucia had ever cautioned him. This was a scene that had been repeated in the past, and it was being recreated precisely now.


“If so, then you—”


“That’s right. I can use the ‘Justice King Michael’ right now, but the one who’s going to end you here is the ‘Covenant King Uriel’ who boasts the strongest attack power.”


“Che—?!”


Feldway was on full alert, mobilizing not only the Castle Guard but also all of his ‘Barriers’ in a defensive posture.
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Rudra literally has the most powerful defense and the most powerful attack, both depend on followers and I would say he has a lot more followers than Rimuru, he also knows how to use the castle guard and attack using spells at the same time, among other things, honestly, RUDRA IS ABSURD, if he didn't have this time limit on Masayuki's body he would beat almost everyone in verse including Guy
 
Peak said:
nah, Diablo is beaten up in every possible way
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Cap, the only reason Diablo wants to obey Rimuru is he saw the potential in him.
Heck, Rimuru did not want him to be involved in that meeting because he knows he was stronger and may mess up.
 
Dread said:
Cap, the only reason Diablo wants to obey Rimuru is he saw the potential in him.
Heck, Rimuru did not want him to be involved in that meeting because he knows he was stronger and may mess up.
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don't trust Rimuru's statements, he constantly underestimates himself, and Rimuru is consistently above Diablo and all of his subordinates, second only to Veldora (who is not his subordinate)

For example, Rimuru has the power of the food chain that will always make him stronger the longer his subordinates get, he can also use his subordinates' skills, he has 3 ultimate skills while Diablo has a unique skill, Rimuru has absolute defense, reactive evolution, a ton of broken hax that Diablo anime can't handle and more
 
I just found something new again on YouTube.

Rimuru LN - At the level of a being from the "Promised Land" - a world that considers all worlds, Spiritual World, the Cardinal World (a higher structure than other worlds) and the realms transcendent of time to be dream/fiction.

<<Even an Ultimate Skill can be changed at will, giving Velgrind freedom and making the Power stronger, or evolving to a higher realm.>>(LN vol.15 Epilogue)

<<Velgrind after leaving Rimuru, she flew to another world transcendent of time, where she successfully reunited with a Parallel Existence, to which Feldway sent her to an unknown place.

In a place where there is neither atmosphere nor earth, Velgrind floats with the flow, not feeling the time.

If Velgrind wasn't a True Dragon, she would have died there. But she had "spatial dominance" and an infinite lifespan.>>

(LN vol.15 Epilogue) (at least Low 1-C(5D))

<<Velgrind had a series of encounters and goodbyes.

Through it all, Velgrind came to understand that there is no single world that Veldanava has created.

He created many worlds.

There was one world, and there were no parallel worlds. But there were other worlds.

There were ‘otherworlders,’ so she was aware of that fact, but Velgrind had never imagined that there were so many different worlds.

They were governed by completely different laws, and there was no causality. It was a material world within a great spiritual world of many different civilizations/dimensions.(Spiritual world - at least 6D. The Spiritual world also includes worlds transcending time.)

From the familiar world where swords and magic are the norm, to the world where magic is non-existent and cannot be used. There was also a rare world where scientific civilization had developed and humankind had become mechanized.

There were weak worlds that could be blown away by a True Dragon if it unleashed all of its strength, and there were desolate worlds where angels and demons comparable to awakened Demon Lords were in constant conflict.

Velgrind had traveled through all those worlds.

But all of it was not of her own intention, but by what she was guided to.

There were different levels of civilizations/dimensions, and Velgrind had no way of guessing which dimension or timeline she was in. Also, because parallel universes do not overlap, it is impossible for the same entity to overlap on the same timeline.(There are two different translations with dimensions or civilizations, but you can choose at your discretion)

In other words, just because you went there once does not mean you can go to the same place.

If the Velgrind exists in the same dimension at the same time, the exact space-time coordinates can be recognized. However, as there is already a Velgrind at that time, ‘Spacetime Leap’ cannot be used to jump there, even with the Ultimate Skill ‘Divine Flame King (Cthugha).’

So Velgrind remembered all worlds, all of Rudra.

The fleet commander of the interstellar world.

The minister of a small country in the world of swords and magic.

The rare scammer in the world without magic.

The poor scientist in the civilized world.

Velgrind is often called upon at moments of crisis when one who possesses a fragment of Rudra’s ‘soul’ is in danger. It is only when he is on the verge of death that his soul shines forth.

Some people died as children because they couldn’t get help in time. It was a very sad event, but Velgrind is convinced that it was fate.

And there was no need to mourn, because then the soul shards would gather quickly.

But she didn’t take it upon herself to hasten the time. It was the Velgrind’s pleasure to watch over Rudras of various personalities.>> (LN vol.17 Part 2) (Dimensions of different levels.(at least Low 1-C(6D), possible 1B mb nlf))

Granbell who was from the Promised Land turned into a Fictional Entity when summoned to the Cardinal World. This is like saying the relationship between Promised Land and Cardinal World is like Reality and Fiction. (This was confirmed either in 11 or 12 volumes by Mariabel reunited with Granbell in the Promised Land.)

<<The Granbell here was nothing more than a fictional entity with an actual body. In fact, the sword he had just given to Hinata had also been recreated held in his hand.

The ability to summon past champions in the form of entities of the same nature as ‘Digital Lifeforms.’ This was the essence of the Ultimate Skill ‘King of Heroes’ that Masayuki had awakened.>> (LN vol. 19 Part 4) (at least 7D, Possible Low 1-A)

Before you say that how can Velgrind be 5D if she can't move in a Suspended world and blah blah blah... I will answer this question further.

Time Stop resistance is not enough as Suspended World in itself is not a mere "Time Stop". I can't fully answer this because the true abilities of Suspended World was still not fully explained and show but based on what have been shown this is at least the abilities in vs battles or debates that characters need to have to be able to move inside it are... - Information Manipulation(type 2)/Conceptual Manipulation(type 1), Abstract Existence(type 1), Time Stop Resistance, Acausality (Probably the strongest version(5 type) as even Velgrynd(she has type 1-4) who was freed from the System could still not move but only think inside it), and Space-Time Manipulation.

I will list all the advantages and benifits of Suspended World.

Suspended World nulls all laws of physics because everything is Stop or Suspended, even abilties are supposed to be null too that is why Rimuru is surprised when Chloe used her abilities to Micheal but that is nothing to be surprised about as Chloe Ultimate Skill is literally Lord of Space-Time or now God of Space-Time after it evolved.

You can actually used a Magic as proven that Diablo did it but you need to prepared it beforehand and even if you actually prepared it, a Suspended World user can just null o destroyed it and kill you without a problem and just like you said there are no concepts of defense so matter how tough and durable you are just one tap will finish you.

There is also no gravity.

And also the fact that Suspended World affect all Worlds and dimensions means there is no escape and you can't run anywhere.

There is also the fact that Digital Lifeforms basically so fast and could exist across all Worlds as long as they send thee coordinates. Now why did I say so fast exactly? In fact, it's not about being fast, Digital Lifeforms are Creatures that are Informational Particles, and Space-Time does not affect them, they also move instantaneously in time. Now why did I say they could exist across all Worlds? It say that Suspended World affects all Worlds so if an Digital Lifeform used Suspended World they could send Information Particles basically everywhere without problems.
Peak said:
she does not transcend any world

World can mean universe and planet, it's nothing superior as you think, it's just a synonym

countless worlds doesn't mean infinite worlds, that just gives 2-B, it has to be innumerable/infinite worlds to be 2-A

And about the vast worlds, just take the context of the scene, Cornu's subordinates dominate the universes they invade and when that happens, they depart to another undominated universe and do the same procedure, doesn't mean it's bigger in size, it means it's yet another completely unexplored space-time to master.
Click to expand...
 
Peak said:
dude, Masayuki's skill is more broken than I thought, apparently he doesn't just put the character at the peak, but also gives him all the skills he had, what I mean is that I thought Rudra only had Uriel in Masayuki's body since it was his prime, but in fact he also has Michael, only he just decided not to use it against Feldway, even though he's never used Uriel and Michael at the same time before

Rudra literally has the most powerful defense and the most powerful attack, both depend on followers and I would say he has a lot more followers than Rimuru, he also knows how to use the castle guard and attack using spells at the same time, among other things, honestly, RUDRA IS ABSURD, if he didn't have this time limit on Masayuki's body he would beat almost everyone in verse including Guy
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Oh, I thought you knew that already. I doubt he'd beat Guy considering the tricks he'd pull in their matches and him admitting Guy was growing stronger than him. Although he didn't have Uriel against Guy but that's also not going to kill Guy. Also, he doesn't use Castle Guard and attack but quickly switches between.
 
Community_Gamer said:
Oh, I thought you knew that already. I doubt he'd beat Guy considering the tricks he'd pull in their matches and him admitting Guy was growing stronger than him. Although he didn't have Uriel against Guy but that's also not going to kill Guy. Also, he doesn't use Castle Guard and attack but quickly switches between.
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I had forgotten about the skills that Rudra had, and well, I see him winning in 1v1 if you disregard the short time he has in Masayuki's body, but it's complicated to judge that, I wanted Fuse to narrate some game of Guy, all we have on him are statements and we have no idea how the fights went

and yes, it's about him being able to switch between attack and castle guard quickly that I'm referring to, actually in that same stretch it was said that Feldway used other barriers besides the castle guard to defend against Rudra, i.e. Rudra can leave absolute defense and Michael active if he is able to use two ultimate skills simultaneously, what could make Uriel cover him as he went to attack
 
I've also been wondering what is the use of infinite regeneration, we know he can regenerate his body, mind and soul, but so can spirit life forms, does that just involve the speed of regeneration? This is confusing because we have Carrera as an example of not being able to instantly regenerate his arm when kicked by Zelanus, but we've also seen Zelanus himself, as well as Feldway and other godtiers regenerate instantly after taking much worse hits(Zelanus received a new dragon head-on and Feldway received Novabreak), then I'll take some time to look for all the scans about Rimuru/Shion's regeneration (since they are the only ones that have confirmed infinite regeneration)then I'll take some time to look for all the scans about Rimuru/Shion's regeneration (since they are the only ones that have confirmed infinite regeneration)
 
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