Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann tiering

[Hizack123]

More like Anti-spiral drill get weakened every time it destroys a drill.

I think that too but it don't seem like that at all for Anti spiral, and still Gurren lagann stil need to be Crazy Strong to Block and destroy universe size drill even if it got weakened.

 

[Hizack123]

I mean size differrent between Gurren Lagann and Anti-spiral it like Atom and human!

 

[Antvasima]

So, should we perform the changes, or wait for Lina?

 

[Hizack123]

Let's wait for now.

 

[Cropfist]

I think we should do the changes.

 

[DaFritzi]

Would having planck time combat speed still put him at MFTL+?

Yes the tier goes on until infinite, but STTGL would be the fastest non infinite speed characters in fiction (at least as far as I know). By scaling of the speed feat of SGGL he would surpass the flash by 10^20 times.

I think for things like the speed feat and the 2-C upgrades we should wait for Lina. The rest can be added imo. I'll try to summarize everything we have agreed on so far.

 

[Joseph619]

The regen upgrade will be huge. TTLG will now be nearly immune to all physical damage.

 

[DaFritzi]

I still think that the regen should be handled differently for the mechs, since even if TTGL gets completely eradicated Simon could simply create a new one.

 

[Joseph619]

I still think that the regen should be handled differently for the mechs, since even if TTGL gets completely eradicated Simon could simply create a new one.

I am talking about the mechs only

 

[DaFritzi]

Summary of everything till now

Tiers, Stats:

Arc Gurren Lagann: Speed: Sub-Relativistic+ (Mach 50488.706), AP: Large Planet by the mass energy of the giga drill (3.055 yottatons)

TTGL post IBBS, Granzeboma: low 2-C both AP and Dura

STTGL, Super Granzeboma: at least low 2-C both AP and Dura (given they are depicted massively superior to their prior form)

Simon and AS: 2-C AP and Dura

Abilities from lower forms of GL the higher forms should also have:

Agl: BFR (Can send the opponent to the end of time)

Sggl: BFR (Can send the opponent to the end of time)

Ttgl: BFR (Can send the opponent to the end of time), Spaceflight, Invulnerability, Energy Projection, Durability Negation (via Probability Manipulation)

Sttgl: BFR (Can send the opponent to the end of time), Spaceflight, Invulnerability, Energy Projection and Absorption, Teleportation, Dimensional Travel, Spatial Manipulation, Reactive Evolution, Sizeshifting, Durability Negation (via Probability Manipulation)

New Abilities:

Time Manipulation (Able to attack through time) for sggl, ttgl, sttgl, simo

4D-omnipresential-attack for sggl, ttgl, sttgl, simon (maybe we should add "via mech")

Antispiral (all forms): Durability Negation (Infinity Big Bang Storm annihilates below quantic level), Time Manipulation (Instant Time Travel, Able to attack through time)

Ttgl, Sttgl, Lord Genome: Regenerationn High (able to regenerate from below quantic level)

 

[DaFritzi]

Things I'd like to discuss further

Regenerationn could be higher for ttgl and sttgl, given that simon should be able to create a new mech even if the old one gets completely erased (low godly?, type 8 reliant on Simon?)

Add Random Shroedinger Warp to AS page as technique and add durability negation to IBBS description

Durability Negation (via probability manip) for TTGL, STTGL, Simon and AS

Powerscaling Time Travel from AS for TTGL, STTGL, Simon

The possibly insane speed feat of sggl (the attack within a plack time)

Gurren Lagann Pre Time-Skip Simon AP: Large continent (5.7 exatons) (idk if ant had the time to check the calc, so I would appreciate it if someone could do that, read the comments on that page first)

Also if nobody is against it I would like to do the changes

 

[Antvasima]

@DaFritzi Well, I think that your suggestions mostly seem reasonable, but would like to see some input from Lina Shields. You can ask him to respond here if you wish.

 

[Szutjo]

I am not sure if anyone have pressed this before but Spiral Energy act very strange to me. It seems to be the energy that enables Reality Warp.


Enable Space & Time Manipulation, Universes Creation, Enhancement (2 galaxies to Big Bangs, Turning regular Gunmen to Gurren Lagann, a space ship into Arc Gurren Lagann, Super Galaxy Dai-Gurren into Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann, Drill into Bigger Drill, resurrect dead people...)

 

[Joseph619]

I agree with possibly low godly regen as well, given that spiral energy is will based so as long as Simon has concsciousness he can regenerate the mechs from absolutely nothing

 

[DaFritzi]

@Ant Thanks for checking the list. I'll ask Lina for some input.

@Szutjo The top tiers already have reality warping and space and time manip will be added

@Joseph So low godly for the top tier mechs with the pilot as the "consciousness", and high regen (below quantum level) for lord genome himself (not sure though, he was absorbed by ttgl, so technically he didn't survive)

 

[Szutjo]

LordGenome belongs to a different category, not Regenerationn. By the time he shielded the team against the Big Bang attack, he wass already a dead man, with his body being broke down to quantum level and absorbed by the Big Bang but manage to last long enough to command those parts that is his energy and body to hi-jack the energy of the Big Bang and turn it into a much more stable state and allow Simon to take it.


I know a lot of characters pull this even though they are well passed their due and Nia also do the same later on.

 

[Ragazz]

here is my guide to tiering

 

[DaFritzi]

@Ragazz Where is that from?

EDIT: Found it, it's from a wiki page about spiral power. This wiki lists a lot of different applications for spiral power. But I'm not sure how applicable they are to this wiki. Maybe we should take them into consideration, maybe we should link that page to the TTGL page to give info on the potential of spiral power?

It contains abilities like Badassery Embodiment, which is described as defying the laws of physics and logic through sheer awesomeness. At least it sounds cool and fits TTGL very well.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, if Lina is not going to respond, is anybody knowledgeable willing to adjust the statistics instead?

 

[DaFritzi]

@Ant Lina told me that he is currently rewatching TTGL and will comment here as soon as he is finished.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Let's wait a while longer then.

 

[Ragazz]

@Ant Lina told me that he is currently rewatching TTGL and will comment here as soon as he is finished.

the series AND the movies, i presume?

 

[Lina_Shields]

Does the 2nd movie cover anything that the series does not cover, other than the appearance of STTGL?

EDIT: I observed a couple of things while watching Gurren Lagann episodes 25, 26, and 27.


excess of spiral power threatens to turn everything into a void

A mention of space-time

Again, a mention of space-time

Near past -10, Near future +8

So, from these images, we know for a FACT that space-time exists in this universe. Someone mentioned that SGGL had an attack that is able to attack at different points in time (past and future)?

Considering that we have proof of this, what would this mean for SGGL's attack speed?

 

[Ragazz]

Does the 2nd movie cover anything that the series does not cover, other than the appearance of STTGL?

it does for some moments, i think. and all the galactical mechas of the characters

are we talking about other characters here aswell, or just the TTGL?

 

[Lina_Shields]

Anyways, a couple more tidbits.

It seems that the universe that the Anti-Spiral reside in is separate from our own. This is shown in the picture below.


An alternate universe exists.

and considering that it mentions a scenario where all the characters are seemingly trapped in their own worlds at different points in time (created by their thoughts apparently), time would seem to exist in that universe as well.

 

[Ragazz]

they attacked past and future time in TTGL, not STTGL.

 

[Lina_Shields]

When did I mention STTGL again?

Anyways, it seems that TTGL's tiering should be

• Attack Potency: High Universe level, Universe level+ with the Infinity Big Bang Storm absorbed

while Granzeboma's tiering should be

• Attack Potency: Universe level+

for matching TTGL even after post Big Bang storm absorption. Said Big Bang had enough energy to obliterate the entire space-time continuum. But in all seriousnessness, TTGL gets the High Universe level rating for slightly matching a Universal+ character with its various attacks while actually not getting instagibbed by IBBS lol.

This is because before TTGL absorbed the big bang storm, Anti-Spiral said this.


meaning the Anti-Spiral has control of this entire continuum with his powers alone.

 

[fandom_4ChKing]

^ That sounds pretty solid

 

[Ragazz]

are we covering the other characters here aswell? bcs i have made a Yoko Littner bio on DA - should help fill in the character profile here, no?

or is this not the topic for that?

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That seems reasonable.

 

[Lina_Shields]

After watching the Lagann Hen movie, I also observed a couple of things.

• TTGL being split into many different smaller representations of their crew members, including a Dai Guren ship. They were all able to slightly affect Granzeboma with their attacks one way or another.
• TTGL after post-absorption becomes a much stronger version, or STTGL.

So, the Dai Guren's crew members get a rating of

• Attack Potency: High Universe level (Was able to slightly hurt the Granzebomba)

Super Granzeboma and STTGL get the rating of

• Attack Potency: At least Universe level+ (Becoming much stronger versions of Granzeboma and TTGL respectively)

If there was proof that the Anti-Spiral was continuously maintaining the Anti-Spiral universe while fighting in the Super Granzeboma, the rating now becomes

• Attack Potency: Multi-Universe level
• The Anti-Spiral maintained both its own space-time (the one that STTGL and S.Granzeboma were fighting in) as well as a mecha that matched STTGL (who absorbed the power of a Big Bang).
• Said Big Bang had enough energy to obliterate all of space-time.
• Simon, who matched the Anti-Spiral directly scales to this.

But for the STTGL/Anti-Spiral tiers, I prefer the first option. I didn't see anything where it was shown that the Anti-Spiral was continuously maintaining their universe through his powers, but rather, the Anti-Spiral just has complete control over it.

 

[-BANLK-]

@Lina What about that planck time combat speed?

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That still seems fine.

 

[Lina_Shields]

It's best to use actual speed feats that were shown/stated in the series (Granzeboma swing, moving through galaxies) instead of relying on words like this to gauge speed, considering that it would make no sense for TTGL and Granzeboma to be slower than any of Galaxy Gurren's attacks.

Since the word planck time seemed to come out of nowhere, and was specifically mentioned in the series (and planck time should be the shortest length of time in term of physics), and I think that it's just a fancy euphemism for the SGGL's attacks being able to reach incremental points across time.

Just leave their speeds as it is.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

o yay thats why thos guy in the hangout were saying,

 

[DaFritzi]

@Lina After Simon defeats Anti Spiral there is an enormous explosion. Directly afterwards this is stated (picture).

This tells us not only that the explosion was the collapse of the AS Universe, but also that is has been maintained by Anti Spiral.

Also there would be no reason for the universe to collapse if was not dependent on AS power. Thus I support 2-C.

About the planck time thing: So we will rate this as the accuracy for Simons timemanip then?

 

[Lina_Shields]

Pretty sure that the massive explosion by the Anti-Spiral's death caused said universe to collapse.

This would also cause said barrier that is between dimensions to collapse as well due to said explosion.

 

[DaFritzi]

Wait, why would the Antispiral explode? The muganns exploded because they were built to do that, the mechs they destroyed exploded because they were mechs. AS is a life form, I don't see a reason why he would explode. I always saw the explosion as an artistic depiction of the spacetime collapse.

Also what would the energy that "maintained" the universe be if not AS himself, who created it?

 

[Joseph619]

Lina Shields where are you watching the subs? I posted different translations than the one you posted. For that Anti Spiral would be 2-C. Did you see all my scans above?

 

[Antvasima]

So, have we agreed to carry out the changes, and if so, is anybody willing to perform them?